Old 04-17-2024, 10:22 AM   #161
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Again, don't get me wrong... I love REAPER! But composing, playing, mixing, mastering are difficult processes, they require a lot of study, a lot of work, anything that can make this work easier is very welcome!

And I maintain my question... Why?

I know there are a lot of people that use Reaper just for audio editing on the spot, bit of mixing/master and that's it. But there are people like me that wanna make sounds and they get inspired when they are in the right environment, when they see something pleasing on their UI and the workflow is nice and smooth. That brings motivation and imagination to create stuff to people like me and sometimes that's a struggle if I try to do that with UIs that aren't the best looking.

As someone that uses 3 DAWs at home and work (Ableton, FL Studio & Reaper), this is one of the very few things I don't like about Reaper (plus the white borders when you are on Windows OS). For example, Ableton has done it so well, you have a visually nice UI when it comes to their stock plugins with sliders, knobs, nice colors that don't butcher your eyes with full white interfaces. Plus you have a graph for changes you make that you can see on the spot.

I don't even think it's about money that Reaper devs don't work on more visually pleasing UI. There are people here that literally spend hours writing scripts for free for the public because the community of this DAW is simply the best by far. I am sure if the devs would give the "OK" and some tips how to implement that inside Reaper, we would have 5+ people working on UI stuff on the first week for free.

That being said, if the devs would simply say "We wrote the code of Reaper 'that way' and it's difficult and complicated to change the UI now and that's why we don't bother", that would be understandable from their part.

And of course, the designs reznikdesign made are absolutely gorgeous, that would be incredible to have something like this implemented within Reaper.

Last edited by Kaze; 04-17-2024 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 04-17-2024, 10:32 AM   #162
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If somebody claims his personal view of things is something Reaper needs to implement, claiming this would be a great plus for the product and all users, he may be not aware that the development resources might (in the view of other users) be better concentrated on different targets, leaving already (decently) workable stuff as it is.
Hence these discussions do make sense.
I get that! But in all seriousness; do you think there is even a single implementation (not talking about bugfixes) that would benefit ALL users? Because I don't see anyone making such a claim with the possible UI changes/possibilities. Like I said, different people WILL enjoy different things. And that's actually (IMHO) the Reaper way anyway - that you can make it your own. But why is it so hard for some to understand that people like "eyecandy" - even if that means, again, different things for different people? Why not let others dream of what might be their vision of Reaper? Why does it have to be one thing and one thing only?


Now, it's obviously true that with 2 developers and 1 person doing theming, resourses are limited. I think everyone here gets that! But...people still like what they like and want to dream of what could be. And some of those people get other people inspired - sometimes even Justin (I remember the jsfx skins that were supposed to be implemented but never did from way back and just recently someone had enough of the white bars on Windows and hacked the thing! And guess what? Justin said he'll have a look at it!)!


So I agree, discussion is important. Different opinions are the salt of life! With that comes the importance of giving their views also a chance, right?
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Old 04-17-2024, 10:53 AM   #163
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Stock plugins can be skinnable to some degree with scripts like LBX Stripper and FX Devices, but it still has limitations because some parameters can't be accessible via API, for example ReaVerb's "modules" in the op's example.

Since devs do not seem to plan to work on stock plugins even function-wise, requesting devs to make stock plugins skinnable or expose all parameters is more feasible than hoping them to make a new UIs imo.

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we would have 5+ people working on UI stuff on the first week for free.
Or you could crowd-fund them.

EDIT:
I thought it only can manipulate an IR addition like RS5k, but actually it can adjust all parameters, but it's not a straightforward way compared to a normal parameter.

Last edited by Suzuki; 05-23-2024 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 04-17-2024, 11:15 AM   #164
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Gentlemen, I see allegations of personal taste, that the REAPER is excellent as it is, that the interface is not important, etc, etc...

That's actually not the point!

What I wanted to show with the image I posted was that it's not just about trends, it's about efficiency and usability and that affects the work. Otherwise these ALL companies wouldn't spend development time on this kind of thing and would keep their software as it was 15 years ago.

But finally, as a last word, after Justin developed something fabulous and Withe Tie gave the interface a more professional look, everything else about reaper remains more or less as it was in the beginning.
If everything is fine, fine. But my question remains unanswered
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Old 04-17-2024, 11:18 AM   #165
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I get that! But in all seriousness; do you think there is even a single implementation (not talking about bugfixes) that would benefit ALL users? Because I don't see anyone making such a claim with the possible UI changes/possibilities. Like I said, different people WILL enjoy different things. And that's actually (IMHO) the Reaper way anyway - that you can make it your own. But why is it so hard for some to understand that people like "eyecandy" - even if that means, again, different things for different people? Why not let others dream of what might be their vision of Reaper? Why does it have to be one thing and one thing only?


Now, it's obviously true that with 2 developers and 1 person doing theming, resourses are limited. I think everyone here gets that! But...people still like what they like and want to dream of what could be. And some of those people get other people inspired - sometimes even Justin (I remember the jsfx skins that were supposed to be implemented but never did from way back and just recently someone had enough of the white bars on Windows and hacked the thing! And guess what? Justin said he'll have a look at it!)!


So I agree, discussion is important. Different opinions are the salt of life! With that comes the importance of giving their views also a chance, right?
Amen! 😜

I am on Windows and I like my Reaper Ultimate...😋
https://imgur.com/oNl0fWD
thanx to Sexan, Tukan, Mpl, NVK, FTC, Heda, Windowblinds, etc 😂💪

(And if you don't find the stock Pugins inspiring... then you just don't use them... plenty of (free) alternatives)

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Old 04-17-2024, 04:10 PM   #166
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If this may inspire some, here is the conclusion of what has been a subject of debate for years on the Freecad forum.
I'm spoiling the ending: ultimately it was the camp of those who wanted a more elaborate graphical interface who won...

https://ondsel.com/blog/freecad-brea...urce-ux-curse/
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Old 04-17-2024, 06:32 PM   #167
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Since devs do not seem to plan to work on stock plugins even function-wise, requesting devs to make stock plugins skinnable or expose all parameters is more feasible than hoping them to make a new UIs imo.
How much work do you think this would be for the development team?

I would think the theming community would eat this up.
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Old 04-17-2024, 10:35 PM   #168
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How much work do you think this would be for the development team?

I would think the theming community would eat this up.
I know you didn't ask me but I think it's the same as with everything in Reaper; we just don't know! Changing one thing might brake another thing. I know Justin said that it wasn't easy to change the Windows colors to dark - and as a user, one might think that that should be so easy. But since it's been a known issue for so long, I'm assuming Justin actually knows what he's talking about!


Would opening Reaplugs to theming be easy? No idea! Would I like that? Yes! Should it be top priority? I guess Justin and Schwa are the only ones that can answer that!
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Old 04-18-2024, 04:59 AM   #169
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How much work do you think this would be for the development team?

I would think the theming community would eat this up.
No idea as Pink Wool said. I suspect the easiest is to make all parameters accessible via API, but only devs know.

Perhaps it's worth FR if it's properly written or there are already one.
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Old 04-18-2024, 06:43 AM   #170
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With that comes the importance of giving their views also a chance
... to be spoken out and discussed .
I am totally with you !

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Old 04-18-2024, 12:40 PM   #171
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I show up like this to add my two cents but I don't use any Reaper plugin because I find the interface confusing, not very ergonomic and frankly ugly! Reaper is probably the best DAW but the design of its plugins is really a weak point for me.
We should be able to offer both types of interfaces (in the same way that we can deactivate the UI of all plugins) so that everyone would be happy.
For my part, I find that the proposal made by reznikdesign is really much clearer/readable.
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Old 04-24-2024, 08:42 AM   #172
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I show up like this to add my two cents but I don't use any Reaper plugin because I find the interface confusing, not very ergonomic and frankly ugly! Reaper is probably the best DAW but the design of its plugins is really a weak point for me.
We should be able to offer both types of interfaces (in the same way that we can deactivate the UI of all plugins) so that everyone would be happy.
For my part, I find that the proposal made by reznikdesign is really much clearer/readable.
This has been a great thread to read through and there are some very good UI concepts that have been developed.

Aside from the emotional/creative side for a moment, i go into sessions every week using both Reaper and Pro Tools. Most of my work is done in Reaper and then imported into Pro Tools as that is the delivery specification for the session delivery and stems. On the dubbing stage I have multiple PT rigs running and Reaper. The concern that has taken awhile to work through with the teams I work with is not so much about functionality, in fact, they love the functionality of Reaper compared to PT. The challenge that needed to be overcome as I incorporated Reaper into the production workflow was perception.

While perception should not be a concern in our industry, it is in fact primary when it comes to briefing/demo/reviewing deliveries in front of the executives that make final decisions and they are looking at a ReaPlugin side by side a PT plugin.....I know its silly but its reality. All of the other DAWs discussed in this thread have put a lot of time into the UI/UX departments. There are trade-offs cpu, cost, and others.

It would be nice to start modernizing the UI/UX whether through skinning or overall remodeling. I cant speak for the user community as a whole but for me it would be worth the potential increase in cost both in dollars and processing.

Ron
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Old 04-25-2024, 01:09 AM   #173
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As I totally understand the reasoning and engineering behind ReaPlugs' native interfaces (Supporting a multiplatform GUI is a life draining task), I think I bought the Waves plugins bundle back then just to have something OK to look at, despite most of them sound worse than ReaPlugs.
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Old 04-30-2024, 12:03 PM   #174
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What would be the next step to make it happen?
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Old 04-30-2024, 10:00 PM   #175
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What would be the next step to make it happen?
Everything depends on Justin. What's the most likely scenario, IMHO, is that Reaplugs will stay as is but perhaps someone gets inspired enough to do a few more GUI'S for JSFX - which would be really nice!

Someone could even be crowdfunded to do GUI's in the style presented by the OP to all the JSFX's that come with Reaper. Huge task but would be amazing!
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Old 05-01-2024, 12:59 AM   #176
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Everything depends on Justin. What's the most likely scenario, IMHO, is that Reaplugs will stay as is but perhaps someone gets inspired enough to do a few more GUI'S for JSFX - which would be really nice!

Someone could even be crowdfunded to do GUI's in the style presented by the OP to all the JSFX's that come with Reaper. Huge task but would be amazing!
Yeah, I made the source file free to access and modify so anyone can grab a copy and use it for whatever.
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Old 05-01-2024, 01:49 AM   #177
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What would be the next step to make it happen?
Exactly what ?

I absolutely prefer virtual sliders above virtual turning knobs.

IMHO they are both better readable and a lot more intuitively moveable.

Of course a kind of "theming" for the stock plugins (VSTs, JSFXes, and the non dedicatedly GUI programmed JSFXes) allowing for coloring them according to the general Reaper theme used would be welcome.

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Old 05-01-2024, 12:16 PM   #178
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if they get skint, they should be SVG/vector only, so they don't increase the installer much.
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Old 05-01-2024, 03:49 PM   #179
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I bet they would immediatelly sound better to many
Touché
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Old 05-03-2024, 07:06 AM   #180
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Everything depends on Justin. What's the most likely scenario, IMHO, is that Reaplugs will stay as is but perhaps someone gets inspired enough to do a few more GUI'S for JSFX - which would be really nice!

Someone could even be crowdfunded to do GUI's in the style presented by the OP to all the JSFX's that come with Reaper. Huge task but would be amazing!
If Reaplugs could be modified so theming is possible, that could be the most efficient and lost cost way for Justin and the team to make it happen.

And I'd argue that theming is a great part of Reaper. Anything that makes working more enjoyable makes sounds to sound better.
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Old 05-03-2024, 06:18 PM   #181
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I absolutely prefer virtual sliders above virtual turning knobs.

IMHO they are both better readable and a lot more intuitively moveable.
"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..."
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Old 05-03-2024, 08:12 PM   #182
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Sorry to be a party pooper, but it will NEVER HAPPEN, IMO.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it is what it is. Life's too short to waste energy on things like these.
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Old 05-04-2024, 05:51 PM   #183
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I worked as an interface designer for a few years and it's all about productivity and ergonomics. Things don't necessarily need to be beautiful and like real hardware, folks at Valhalla DSP are an example of excellent usability. Fab filter too. Logic's stock plugins are flat and simple but very well organized.
Good visualizations, large controls for important things, omission of some details to facilitate use, everything is within this proposal.
It's clear that no reaper plugin was designed with these things in mind. Vertical, horizontal and meter controls only. Poor control precision, everything is very small, white and flat interface that increases visual fatigue, source conditioned to the OS. Anyway, I just don't want things to remain within the scope of "personal taste" and it's possible to understand that a good UX makes a lot of difference for those who work daily with the software.

But let's get to the reality of REAPER. Of course Justin and the other developers know all this, otherwise REAPER wouldn't have changed the main theme of the DAW, as it has changed over the years. However, my understanding is that REAPER is too cheap to allow a deep investment for such changes, perhaps it would be necessary to hire someone, a new study on each situation of the plugins, there would be an impact from bugs and other situations that they would not be able to face.

The development of Reaplugs itself is very slow...
If I'm not mistaken, it took years for ReaLimit to appear. I think the plugins are good and smart and it's cool to use ReaGate to trigger, ReaXComp as a deesser, but honestly it lacks a dedicated deesser, a stereo expander, maybe a less confusing delay, some good modulators, etc.

Once again, I just wanted to see REAPER up there, it has all the potential to be better than Pro Tools, Cubase, etc... But it needs some polishing and adding some more tools.
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Old 05-04-2024, 07:00 PM   #184
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Sorry to be a party pooper, but it will NEVER HAPPEN, IMO.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it is what it is. Life's too short to waste energy on things like these.
That's what they said about take lanes.
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Old 05-04-2024, 11:08 PM   #185
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If I'm not mistaken, it took years for ReaLimit to appear.
Yes, 11 years for me ...

Wanted: Cockos VST (Rea)Limiter in V4 (although, it had been requested before that: Who wants a ReaLimit?.) It was released in v6.37.

I also FR:ed ReaPhaze, ReaWah and ReaMod 16 years ago.

There were users who thought a Rea-limiter was sooo unnecessary – and actually quite ridiculed by some – have som fun read in the "Who wants a ReaLimit?"-thread Same goes for Rea-phase/-wah/-mod (chorus, etc).

So my guess is it'll be there in future versions. As the stuff requested in this thread.

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Sorry to be a party pooper, but it will NEVER HAPPEN, IMO.
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
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Old 05-05-2024, 12:04 AM   #186
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it lacks a dedicated deesser, a stereo expander, maybe a less confusing delay, some good modulators, etc.
There are many great plugins available via ReaPack. I do love to use those by Tukan. Many "standard" functionality is covered by them in a seemingly perfect way.
I'm not dedicatedly commenting their GUI, but I heard many positive comments.

Of course they do look "3rd party", as the Reaper stock plugins follow a different design goal. This might - or might not - be considered a problem. In fact "global Theming" could be considered a plus.

(BTW.: AFAIU Reaper from the beginning on was designed for making use of JSFX plugins, instead of provided many closed source dedicated stock ("courtesy") plugins.)

(BTW/2: Other that some other "wanted" stock plugins IMHO the new Limiter is something close to any user might be consider useful and to me its usability is hard to beat. )

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Old 05-05-2024, 12:59 AM   #187
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If Reaplugs could be modified so theming is possible, that could be the most efficient and lost cost way for Justin and the team to make it happen.

And I'd argue that theming is a great part of Reaper. Anything that makes working more enjoyable makes sounds to sound better.
Agreed very much! Theming has made Reaper a joy to use!

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That's what they said about take lanes.
Indeed! There's always hope!
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Old 05-13-2024, 12:33 PM   #188
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Stupid question, but if the TUKAN js plugins can look as good as they do, why can't the Reaper native plugins look like the designs the OP posted?
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Old 05-13-2024, 12:42 PM   #189
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Stupid question, but if the TUKAN js plugins can look as good as they do, why can't the Reaper native plugins look like the designs the OP posted?
Because WDL
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Old 05-13-2024, 11:42 PM   #190
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can we just get Justin to make RS5K not be the worst sampler out of all the DAW's?
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Old 05-14-2024, 12:22 AM   #191
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I am just working through the 265 Page documentation of a "decent" Sampler (Kontakt). Same is publicly available for reading.

Having same for free in Reaper and with that available in Linux would be really nice.

But the courtesy plugins that come with Reaper often are really helpful.
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Old 05-14-2024, 10:36 AM   #192
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Because WDL
This.

So, to develop this GUI, someone would have to first wrap the ReaPlugs into JS format?
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