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Old 08-12-2018, 07:17 PM   #81
Philbo King
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+1! A Mastering mode would be most welcome and useful.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:25 AM   #82
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Aside from that though, I personally LOVE delivering masters as DDP with HOFA DDP Player Maker for clients to initially approve masters. Unless it's a single song project, this is how I deliver the initial master for approval. Then I provide all the alternate formats once it's approved.

I do it because it basically eliminates and user induced playback issues due to incorrect media player settings such as EQ, song spacing/crossfades etc. and they can easily also view the CD-Text Info which in WaveLab I transpose to ID3 metadata automatically.

It's just a great way to approve an EP or album project and make sure everything is exactly as it should be. Also, HOFA DDP Player Maker is super easy to use and is very stable.
We use Sonoris for this, but for the same reason.

Unless a project is literally a single, every client approves a reference DDP from us, no matter the final delivery format(s). Extensive CD-TEXT and DDP support is one of the big reasons we are (mostly) a Sequoia shop.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:37 AM   #83
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A new type of Marker is needed specifically for Authoring use. the SWS Markers to Regions works .. but then you need to erase old markers first, regions then have to be renamed to the correct CD Text, etc..

I'd like to use regular markers for notes (click?) (check this spot..) etc..
Track ID Markers for CD Start markers (yellow), Each Track ID Marker has a corresponding entry in the Metadata ID Window (ISRC/name/etc..)

Render (either files or DDP/Bin/ISO) now creates individual files based off the Track ID Markers inheriting the names/metadata from the Metadata Window.
+1

In Sequoia, you can view both types of makers (Track ID and standard Markers) in the marker manager window, similar to REAPER's Markers/Regions Manager.

And then there is a more extensive CD-TEXT management dialog that adds necessary metadata (Artist/Title/ISRC/etc) to each Track ID marker. This metadata is added during DDP or Broadcast WAV export.

The best part of all of this, in my view, is that there's no separate "Mastering Mode" like in Studio One or whatever. The DAW functions identically as if you were using it for tracking/mixing/editing. The only real difference (at least for my everyday work) is the addition of this specific marker type w/ metadata entry, and a couple of extra features in the export dialog, as @loji mentioned.

Until you get into more involved DDP functions (import of existing DDPs, for instance), the necessary authoring features are rather simple, at least conceptually if not in execution.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:43 AM   #84
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We use Sonoris for this, but for the same reason.

Unless a project is literally a single, every client approves a reference DDP from us, no matter the final delivery format(s). Extensive CD-TEXT and DDP support is one of the big reasons we are (mostly) a Sequoia shop.
Exactly. I don't look at DDP as only being needed for CD production, I view it as a really great method of delivering a master for approval that keeps everything intact like song spacing, the sound, CD-Text (metadata), etc. because sending standalone WAV or mp3 files is sure to lead to some user induced playback problems from settings in their media player that change the sound, song spacing, and lack of CD-Text if they try to burn a CD.

DDP keeps everybody on the same page for the approval process, and it happens to be what is used for CD replication too Even if CDs officially die tomorrow, I'll still use DDP as a means of master delivery for projects that are 2 songs or more.

I was using Sonoris back in the day but I like that the HOFA version doesn't require my clients to install an app and authorize it. My clients seem to like it too. They just download the zip and launch the Mac or PC player and they're up and running. Very simple.

One bonus to still being a Sonoris DDP Player OEM owner though is that I can also offer my clients the iOS DDP Player if they prefer, and Pieter has said an Android version is coming eventually too which should cover most of the bases.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:49 AM   #85
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Have fun with that DDP player app with your Windows using client with their stock media player that only plays mp3 or 16/44.1 wav, they don't remember their password to the machine, and they wouldn't install a new app if they did. Or they have some work machine that's locked down.

FLAC, ALAC, & mp3 in a cloud folder catches everyone.
FLAC is the most universal full quality consumer format now. Except for Apple competing against it... so ALAC for iThing users. Then mp3 for anyone not up to speed with anything else.

Pretty sure even Windows Media Player is supposed to play FLAC files but I've seen the above scenario many times now. If it's operator error, well there they are. And they don't want help (Facebook still works just fine).
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:53 AM   #86
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Have fun with that DDP player app with your Windows using client with their stock media player that only plays mp3 or 16/44.1 wav, they don't remember their password to the machine, and they wouldn't install a new app if they did. Or they have some work machine that's locked down.
The DDP delivery method I use doesn't require installing an app, the DDP Player is embedded in the DDP folder and works without issue on PC or Mac. It has nothing to do with WMP or other media players. It's self sufficient and I send out handfuls of masters per week without issue. Every week.

Consumer media players can (and do) leave room for incorrect settings and user induced problems if not careful. Remember, not everybody is as techy as those of us on this forum and it's helpful when you serve them up a foolproof way to listen to their master.

We do not need negative comments in this thread.

If you are not in favor of any of these additions, please ignore the thread.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:58 AM   #87
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The DDP delivery method I use doesn't require installing an app, the DDP Player is embedded in the DDP folder and works without issue on PC or Mac.
Yea, I don't think Serr is up to speed on that. The DDP player solves everything he thinks is an issue. The brandable DDP player maker is the shizzle. Hofa has a trial version Serr, maybe test it out before commenting on it.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:10 AM   #88
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Yea, I don't think Serr is up to speed on that. The DDP player solves everything he thinks is an issue. The brandable DDP player maker is the shizzle. Hofa has a trial version Serr, maybe test it out before commenting on it.
Yeah, when you master a few albums and EPs every week, it's a huge time saver, and the logo branding and overall stability adds a nice layer of professionalism to it all. I don't have to field emails about sequencing concerns, metadata questions, or sound problems caused by an EQ setting in the media player etc.

It's all right there in the DDP and it's locked in. It's either right or wrong.

I get that a lot of people on the REAPER forum do a lot of recording, mixing, producing and occasional to regular mastering too.

However, the nature of this thread is requests from guys who are only mastering 24/7 with really specific needs and ideas to make the process as accurate and efficient as possible and as great as REAPER is at so many things, it's not great at 100% of the mastering process unless you have some mad coding/scripting skills and high level of customizations that the average mastering engineer is not going to want to deal with.

Certainly other uses would benefit from these additions but I think you get the idea.

I just thought it was worth getting the discussion going to see if there is any interest out there for the Cockos developers to consider.

Until anything happens, there are other apps out there to help finish the job better but having a more friendly all-in-one solution in REAPER would certainly attract more users willing to pay the business license fee.
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:30 AM   #89
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Yea, I don't think Serr is up to speed on that. The DDP player solves everything he thinks is an issue. The brandable DDP player maker is the shizzle. Hofa has a trial version Serr, maybe test it out before commenting on it.
OK I will, thanks.
I had been using the free DDP to Cuewriter app (they had both Win and Mac versions).

To be fair, I've only had two of the above scenario in recent memory. Those users are out there though.

I'm all for expanded features and function here too! See above.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:17 AM   #90
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I get that a lot of people on the REAPER forum do a lot of recording, mixing, producing and occasional to regular mastering too.

However, the nature of this thread is requests from guys who are only mastering 24/7 with really specific needs and ideas to make the process as accurate and efficient as possible
Yep, that's why I'm not chiming in much because I can see the need. Currently I only record/master/release my own band and a few projects for others here and there because I've functioned in the local scene here for 25 years in some capacity but it's still a side job at this point.

I fully understand the difference when it comes to $$, deadlines and accuracy. Even my personal band project ended up being a few thousand of my own personal investment and anything going wrong, holding me up or causing me to miss various commitments or god forbid stamping 1000s of CDs wrong become a real problem very fast. Having both the band and the publisher sign off on a DDP made all of this much easier.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:53 AM   #91
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Yep, that's why I'm not chiming in much because I can see the need. Currently I only record/master/release my own band and a few projects for others here and there because I've functioned in the local scene here for 25 years in some capacity but it's still a side job at this point.

I fully understand the difference when it comes to $$, deadlines and accuracy. Even my personal band project ended up being a few thousand of my own personal investment and anything going wrong, holding me up or causing me to miss various commitments or god forbid stamping 1000s of CDs wrong become a real problem very fast. Having both the band and the publisher sign off on a DDP made all of this much easier.
Yeah, I've been on mastering forums where people are searching for a DDP script that another REAPER power user/mastering person made because the Dropbox link to it died etc.

It's stuff like that that can't be happening so while I love the scripting for some of the really personal and specific workflows that aren't deal-breakers goes, REAPER needs to add the nuts and bolts natively so that it can be relied upon day in and out without any issues by people doing mastering professionally 24/7 year round.
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:23 AM   #92
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+1
The best part of all of this, in my view, is that there's no separate "Mastering Mode" like in Studio One or whatever. The DAW functions identically as if you were using it for tracking/mixing/editing. The only real difference (at least for my everyday work) is the addition of this specific marker type w/ metadata entry, and a couple of extra features in the export dialog, as @loji mentioned.

Until you get into more involved DDP functions (import of existing DDPs, for instance), the necessary authoring features are rather simple, at least conceptually if not in execution.
I completely agree.
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:46 AM   #93
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Regarding the DDP function in reaper:
The support for DDP is already there, what needs to be done is to make it more user friendly.

A special type of marker (or region?) would be great, the way to do it now is way too complicated. The metadata entry needs to be the same for all types of exports including DDP.

I am myself using the script by Karumba, and it works...but still, change is needed in order to attract more mastering engineers, and the fact that reaper puts ISRC codes on both index 0 and 1 (which sonoris tells me is wrong) makes me not use reaper for this but still go to another app.

I dont think any of this is actually THAT much work for the devs and it would make a huge change.

A native user customisable cue sheet would be great also with a specific function to mark vinyl side changes, just like in the new HOFA app.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:57 AM   #94
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Hi, great thread a big +1!!!

Please was multiple formats render at the same time, like wav and MP3, already mentioned. Also a batch resampler or format converter ala wavelab could be useful.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:38 AM   #95
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Hi, great thread a big +1!!!

Please was multiple formats render at the same time, like wav and MP3, already mentioned. Also a batch resampler or format converter ala wavelab could be useful.
Yes, when WaveLab added multi-format rendering I thought it might save time but I personally don't use it.

When I make mp3 files, I don't use any dither and when I make 16 or 24-bit WAVs, like to use plugin dither by Goodhertz for more options than you might get from a built in DAW dither. This complicates the process of rendering multiple formats from the same project.

Also, I like to use my own sample rate conversion outside of the DAW (Weiss Saracon) so this means that I end up having a few different sub-projects of a master project to get all the end formats I need.

-96k un-dithered for the initial final processing

-96k with all plugins printed and floating point audio ready for 24-bit/96k rendering with a dither plugin inserted.

-44.1k SRC'd down from 96 using Saracon and all plugins printed and floating point audio ready for 16-bit/44.1k rendering and DDP with a dither plugin inserted.

Then for mp3 rendering I use the 44.1k version but remove the dithering plugin.

So, it sounds like a nice concept but due to dithering and SRC concerns, for me it doesn't really work.
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:01 PM   #96
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Regarding #8, can REAPER make a 100% mirror image of a project including all marker placements and item placements and just reference a new file or set of files in one command?

Ideally I don't want to be managing additional files or tracks, just a simple project duplication tool using a new source file or files and everything else other than the sample rate is the same so we can use an external SRC tool.

It would also need to carry over any new info stuff that are part of other feature requests. Basically, I one command solution for recreating a project at a new sample rate using a new source files or set of files in a different folder.
Yes it can basically duplicate sessions and do that. But this way is easier and faster I believe, the main reason being a reaper session can have as many sample rates per session as you want. So you only need 1 session. Here is what I do:
Duplicate the track with the masters. Glue it, and then you have the master at its native sample rate. Then you can open copies of the glued master in rx (using the open in external editor command). Then src to your new rate. 96k and 44.1 (and 48 or whatever you want) all live in the same session on the same track. You just select which file/take you want and then export. Handier/cleaner I think than having separate sessions.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:09 PM   #97
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Duplicate the track with the masters. Glue it, and then you have the master at its native sample rate. Then you can open copies of the glued master in rx (using the open in external editor command). Then src to your new rate. 96k and 44.1 (and 48 or whatever you want) all live in the same session on the same track. You just select which file/take you want and then export. Handier/cleaner I think than having separate sessions.
That seems like it would work. Don't you also have to change the project sample rate to what you're exporting so it won't SRC it? Or is reaper doing something I'm not aware of...
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:27 PM   #98
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That seems like it would work. Don't you also have to change the project sample rate to what you're exporting so it won't SRC it? Or is reaper doing something I'm not aware of...
Nope, see post #22 & 33 above.
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Old 08-17-2018, 05:48 AM   #99
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Nope, see post #22 & 33 above.
Okay. That's kind-a cool. And it makes sense. If you unset that setting (use project sample rate for fx), then the need for SRC only happens if you make the project actually sum tracks at different sample rates, which is when the project settings come in to disambiguate which SR you want...if you use render region matrix or just render that track, there's no conflict or ambiuity and Reaper assumes you have a reason for that sample rate.

I'm going to have to experiment with it today, but I like it.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:29 AM   #100
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It would be nice to have a preference that only indicates clips on tracks at actual 0dBFS instead of slightly before it.

In the world of mastering, this can be an important distinction.
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:45 AM   #101
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Yay! Great thread. I really appreciate the Cockus crew for paying attention to this.

I agree with so much of the ideas in this thread. It's even good to hear about workflows different from mine.

Here's another small idea. (I don't think that I saw this above, so pardon me if it was mentioned.) Many of us monitor through dither and print at 16 bit through dither. I would love to set a global option to determine which dither I'd like to use. I can envision pointing Reaper to a specific plugin and then a check box on routing windows to utilize the dither option or not. It's a small workflow update.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:21 AM   #102
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I really appreciate the Cockus crew for paying attention to this.
Well. So far they have said absolutely nothing about this thread but let's hope they are at least monitoring it.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:18 AM   #103
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Well. So far they have said absolutely nothing about this thread but let's hope they are at least monitoring it.
Yes I'm sure they are taking note, hopefully comment soon or better yet implement some of this. Thx for all your efforts and taking the time to post.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:39 AM   #104
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Yes I'm sure they are taking note, hopefully comment soon or better yet implement some of this. Thx for all your efforts and taking the time to post.
No problem. I have a solution now via WaveLab but I just see so much potential in REAPER and I know for a fact that more mastering engineers would take REAPER seriously if these features were native to the program.

So this is not so much a selfish request, but a request on behalf of certain segments of the mastering community still looking for the perfect DAW and workflow. Of all the software options out there, REAPER is probably the closest to being that, especially as a Mac and PC app.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:35 AM   #105
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I'm not a full time mastering engineer, but do it often enough using only Reaper that these features would be incredibly useful, as well as being a stress and time saver.

Thank you for getting this going MRMJP.

Cheers,
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Old 08-27-2018, 05:55 PM   #106
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I'm not a full time mastering engineer, but do it often enough using only Reaper that these features would be incredibly useful, as well as being a stress and time saver.

Thank you for getting this going MRMJP.

Cheers,
Jennifer
Thanks for the feedback. I recently had to learn Studio One for a mastering class I'm teaching because that is what the school was persuaded to buy by another instructor (instead of WaveLab), and even if REAPER could incorporate some basic things like the Studio One project mode section it would be a huge addition to REAPER.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:44 PM   #107
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BTW.: Wavelab: Does Steinberg really want the users to buy both WaveLab and CuBase to be fully functional in a studio ?

Weired politics !

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Old 09-03-2018, 01:40 PM   #108
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BTW.: Wavelab: Does Steinberg really want the users to buy both WaveLab and CuBase to be fully functional in a studio ?

Weired politics !

-Michael
Well. Technically WaveLab can get the job done for mastering but if you want a more advanced workflow, it certainly helps to use something like Cubase or REAPER for the initial audio processing.

I'm quite happy with REAPER for the initial processing but as mentioned many times, there is a strong case for REAPER adding something like the WaveLab montage or Studio One project mode if they'd like to attract more engineers who just focus on mastering.
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:48 PM   #109
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To me it seems odd to use a different program imposing a different workflow for some partially identical activities.

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Old 09-04-2018, 04:43 AM   #110
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To me it seems odd to use a different program imposing a different workflow for some partially identical activities.

-Michael
This is kind of the point of the entire thread. I don't mind using two apps but I know in the mattering community there is a need (especially on the Mac side) for a great mastering option all in one DAW and REAPER could probably do it very well if they wanted to.
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Old 09-05-2018, 12:21 PM   #111
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i still hope we will see some native solutions suited towards mastering in ver 6
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Old 09-05-2018, 12:53 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by SubbaseDnB View Post
i still hope we will see some native solutions suited towards mastering in ver 6
Yes. It seems that most of us who are using REAPER professionally for mastering and only do mastering have done some very extensive scripting and customization already for the actual audio processing.

It's just that REAPER seems to fall short in the finalization, authoring, exporting of formats, metadata etc. department.

The things that actual mastering apps like WaveLab, Sequoia, Pyramix, SoundBlade, Studio One, and to an extent HOFA and Sonoris DDP Creator do.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:05 PM   #113
JSMastering
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Yep.

And compared to everything else reaper does, its actually pretty simple coding.

Considering that there are open source media players that read all of the relevant formats and metadata, there should be a usable library to incorporate or work from that allows metadata to be written to files correctly. Then, it's just a matter of wrapping a wizard/gui around it.

Everything else seems to boil down to preference and is doable with extensions/scripting, even if it isn't perfect.
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:54 PM   #114
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small bump hope that this topic gets seen by the developers
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