Old 06-15-2018, 12:07 PM   #1
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Default v5.92pre3 - June 15 2018

v5.92pre3 - June 15 2018
+ MIDI editor: 14-bit registered parameter/non-registered parameter CC editing
+ MIDI import: handle time signature messages incorrectly exported in instrument tracks [p=1999501]
+ MIDI: fix possible incorrect 14-bit message pairing
+ Project load: prevent fallback to default project behavior for 'show notes on open' [p=2000865]
+ Video: .ini file setting for experimental video processor multiprocessing
# ARA: analyze active takes only
# MIDI: rename "MIDI note name" menu/load/save/undo strings to "MIDI note/CC name"
# linux: optional mlockall() support


Full changelog - Latest pre-releases
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:11 PM   #2
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+ Video: .ini file setting for experimental video processor multiprocessing
Interesting. What is this?
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:20 PM   #3
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Interesting. What is this?
if you look in the reaper_video section of reaper.ini there will be a new line added when you run REAPER that can enable it. Currently it just speeds up gfx_xformblit() and gfx_procrect() for large resolution processing, and also gfx_blit() when using filtering+resizing. It only makes a marginal speedup, but I did it because one of my machines was running up against performance issues on one of my video projects... More will come as needed.

It's experimental, it *should* work OK, but it might have graphical glitches in some cases (particularly on the gfx_blit() version, but also depending on colorspace weirdnesses).
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:25 PM   #4
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v5.92pre3 - June 15 2018
+ MIDI editor: 14-bit registered parameter/non-registered parameter CC editing
OH SHIT! This is huge!

The last thing that was missing from Sonar.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:31 PM   #5
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OK checking RPN/NRPN... something's missing here... I thought you'd get a lane per each RPN/NRPN address, or something similar. So I suppose the way it's supposed to work is you first gotta define RPN/NRPN address with those lanes, and then you need to use 14-bit CC6/38 to actually set the value of that address.


Hmm. That is quite clunky. In Sonar, you could add a lane for i.e. NRPN 100, and then draw in that lane only values for NRPN 100 and Sonar would take care of everything during playback. So in Reaper's case, I suppose when choosing the RPN/NRPN lanes, it would be nicer if we got one or two additional fields to set MSB/LSB for the address (above the CC lane menu!). Then the bars in the lane itself would be tied to just that RPN/NRPN address. Make sense?

EDIT: Like this...




This would make much more sense because with (N)RPN there can be lots of parameters continuously editable, just like with regular CCs. Combining the new (N)RPN lanes with existing 14-bit CC #6 lane is an absolute hell for editing (nigh impossible, I'd dare to say) once you have more than one continuously adjustible (N)RPN parameter going on simultaneously!

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Old 06-15-2018, 12:32 PM   #6
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Hello Justin, this bug is not related to the current branch of development, but maybe it is not difficult to fix? https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207813
I think it's logical that the automation duplicated along with the item, when the item is in loop mode.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:41 PM   #7
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I am not sure if that classifies as a bug, tho.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:15 PM   #8
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OK checking RPN/NRPN... something's missing here... I thought you'd get a lane per each RPN/NRPN address, or something similar. So I suppose the way it's supposed to work is you first gotta define RPN/NRPN address with those lanes, and then you need to use 14-bit CC6/38 to actually set the value of that address.


Hmm. That is quite clunky. In Sonar, you could add a lane for i.e. NRPN 100, and then draw in that lane only values for NRPN 100 and Sonar would take care of everything during playback. So in Reaper's case, I suppose when choosing the RPN/NRPN lanes, it would be nicer if we got one or two additional fields to set MSB/LSB for the address (above the CC lane menu!). Then the bars in the lane itself would be tied to just that RPN/NRPN address. Make sense?

EDIT: Like this...




This would make much more sense because with (N)RPN there can be lots of parameters continuously editable, just like with regular CCs. Combining the new (N)RPN lanes with existing 14-bit CC #6 lane is an absolute hell for editing (nigh impossible, I'd dare to say) once you have more than one continuously adjustible (N)RPN parameter going on simultaneously!
Ah right. So rather than a 2-message 14-bit lane, it's actually up to 16384 3/4-message 14-bit lanes. Something tells me we'll not do that any time soon...
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:13 AM   #9
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That's a shame... Some newer and quite popular hardware synthesizers actually use NRPN to control their parameters, rather than sysex or CC (because there's not enough 14-bit CCs by default in MIDI standard and those synths might have more than 31 parameter that needs larger than 7-bit parameter range - this is exactly why (N)RPN was added to the spec!).

And yes, (N)RPN can be 3 or 4 messages, depending on whether the parameter needs 7- or 14-bit range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRPN

So it would definitely be very beneficial to have such editing of these parameters in Reaper - these synths are quite popular and controlling them from Reaper sohuld be possible. Soon-ish, why not in v6?

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Old 06-16-2018, 12:36 AM   #10
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When talking about 14 bit messages there also is 14 Bit velocity (AFAIR using a certain dedicated CC message in advanced to the note-on message.

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Old 06-16-2018, 01:00 AM   #11
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That is CC #88 placed directly before note on, IIRC.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:15 AM   #12
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OK checking RPN/NRPN... something's missing here... I thought you'd get a lane per each RPN/NRPN address, or something similar. So I suppose the way it's supposed to work is you first gotta define RPN/NRPN address with those lanes, and then you need to use 14-bit CC6/38 to actually set the value of that address.


Hmm. That is quite clunky. In Sonar, you could add a lane for i.e. NRPN 100, and then draw in that lane only values for NRPN 100 and Sonar would take care of everything during playback. So in Reaper's case, I suppose when choosing the RPN/NRPN lanes, it would be nicer if we got one or two additional fields to set MSB/LSB for the address (above the CC lane menu!). Then the bars in the lane itself would be tied to just that RPN/NRPN address. Make sense?

EDIT: Like this...




This would make much more sense because with (N)RPN there can be lots of parameters continuously editable, just like with regular CCs. Combining the new (N)RPN lanes with existing 14-bit CC #6 lane is an absolute hell for editing (nigh impossible, I'd dare to say) once you have more than one continuously adjustible (N)RPN parameter going on simultaneously!
+1 Mario! Let us keep our fingers crossed....
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:17 AM   #13
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That's a shame... Some newer and quite popular hardware synthesizers actually use NRPN to control their parameters, rather than sysex or CC (because there's not enough 14-bit CCs by default in MIDI standard and those synths might have more than 31 parameter that needs larger than 7-bit parameter range - this is exactly why (N)RPN was added to the spec!).

And yes, (N)RPN can be 3 or 4 messages, depending on whether the parameter needs 7- or 14-bit range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRPN

So it would definitely be very beneficial to have such editing of these parameters in Reaper - these synths are quite popular and controlling them from Reaper sohuld be possible. Soon-ish, why not in v6?
Poo. Thought we had got lucky. Does it really have to be as hard as Justin says??
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:20 AM   #14
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Is there some spec to load NPRN parameter names? Shall we make them part of the note/CC name map? Would it be tolerable to make that the entire UI of adding NPRN lanes, rather than having to make an editor or add/remove actions?

And I guess PRN should always expose 4 lanes (pitch bend sensitivity, fine tuning, coarse tuning, tuning program select, and tuning bank select). Or would that be 8 (14-bit vs 7-bit versions of each)?

Should we always add the 127/127 (nul) (N)PRN messages immediately following the CC set as noted in https://web.archive.org/web/20150407...o.uk/nrpnq.htm ?

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Old 06-16-2018, 02:28 AM   #15
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Nope, there is no such spec for (N)RPN names. But I see no reason why not support renaming NRPN lanes in a similar way we can already rename CC lanes. Example:

Code:
NRPN456 Foo
Also I would suggest this name of the lane would be placed ABOVE the CC lane selector menu (AND above my suggested NRPN address entry field + MSB/LSB text), just as text. The CC lane menu is already quite crowded, adding 16384 possible NRPN entries there (even in submenus) would be hell to thrawl through...

Regarding the null message, that makes sense, I think. But perhaps a good idea to also have an option to disable that.


RPN has (as of yet) 5 parameters defined by MIDI standard not 4 (but yeah typo I suppose, you listed 5 parameters in parentheses) This would also support MIDI Tuning Standard, which some plugins do support (like Pianoteq).

Of those 5 RPNs, only Master Coarse Tuning is 7-bit only, 14-bit makes no sense for it. Master Fine Tuning is always 14-bit, never 7-bit. Pitch Bend Sensitivity (Range) can be either 7- or 14-bit - it's more often used as 7-bit (semitone range only).

Perhaps the easiest here would be to use the established RPN parameters as individual entries in the CC lane selector menu, and then add another one for NRPN with additional NRPN address entry field.

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Old 06-16-2018, 04:16 AM   #16
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The all-important SWS function BR_GetMouseCursorContext_MIDI does not recognize the new CC lanes: Notation, RPN-14bit and NRPN-14bit.

In order for Lua scripts to calculate this context themselves, they need access to the pixel coordinates of the client area of the MIDI editor. It would therefore be very helpful if MIDIEditor_GetSetting_int or MIDIEditor_GetSetting_str could return these values.

Alternatively, the WDL/SWELL C++ functions WindowFromPoint, GetClientRect and ClientToScreen could be exposed to the Lua API.

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Old 06-16-2018, 09:52 AM   #17
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v5.92pre3 - June 15 2018
# ARA: analyze active takes only
It loads faster now, thanks for this improvement. I guess the sluggishness is something we have to wait for Celemony to fix it. I really want to see that fixed before the official release. It's a pain to use atm.

By the way, there's another bug I forgot to mention. The amount of undo steps is wrong. I have Melodyne set to 100 steps but I can't seem to go back more than 10 or something like that. Undo is very important when editing lots of tracks in Melodyne.

Meanwhile, I think it would be nice to improve the workflow within REAPER.

- It would be nice to have a special-case docking for Melodyne (one that doesn't affect how wide or narrow the other docked windows are so we can make Melodyne taller or smaller and this wouldn't affect the mixer height, for example).

- A command (and Mouse Modifier) to load Melodyne on selected tracks OR items (there should be two different commands, I think).

- Right now we have options to "apply FX...", "render selected tracks to stems" and "freeze selected tracks" which we can choose from to apply the Melodyne process (we can even record the output which is also cool if you're just tuning a certain passage). Since Melodyne is always loaded as first FX in the FX chain I think it would be safe to have a special-case command to "apply Melodyne on selected tracks" (this would save us a lot of time if we have other plug-ins in the chain. We wouldn't have to bypass or offline them first).

- Selecting a track within Melodyne (I'm talking about the "track list" in Melodyne, where the tracks names are) should also select the track (right now selecting the tiny blobs does select and change the track which is great).

- When inserting the very first instance of Melodyne in the project there should a be a dialog to confirm the tempo.

That's pretty much what I can think of for now.
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Old 06-16-2018, 10:41 AM   #18
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ED`s right on the money, Justin.

That said, the one thing I used to really like in Bars n Pipes Pro`s MIDI implementation was the way you could assign up to seven (or was it ten?) sliders in a "mixer" matrix to just about any control code AND in the later Alfred Faust version MSB LSB, etc.

Sadly though, the one thing you couldnt do that way was assign a fader to pitch bend, but since that showed up as a separate MIDI descriptor in the event list editor, it made it all relatively easy.
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:21 AM   #19
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^^^ That sounds very much like ReaControlMIDI, in a way. Otherwise it's also possible in JS FX, if more control is necessary than what RCM can provide.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:02 PM   #20
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By the way, there's another bug I forgot to mention. The amount of undo steps is wrong. I have Melodyne set to 100 steps but I can't seem to go back more than 10 or something like that. Undo is very important when editing lots of tracks in Melodyne.

Meanwhile, I think it would be nice to improve the workflow within REAPER.

- It would be nice to have a special-case docking for Melodyne (one that doesn't affect how wide or narrow the other docked windows are so we can make Melodyne taller or smaller and this wouldn't affect the mixer height, for example).

- A command (and Mouse Modifier) to load Melodyne on selected tracks OR items (there should be two different commands, I think).

- Right now we have options to "apply FX...", "render selected tracks to stems" and "freeze selected tracks" which we can choose from to apply the Melodyne process (we can even record the output which is also cool if you're just tuning a certain passage). Since Melodyne is always loaded as first FX in the FX chain I think it would be safe to have a special-case command to "apply Melodyne on selected tracks" (this would save us a lot of time if we have other plug-ins in the chain. We wouldn't have to bypass or offline them first).

- Selecting a track within Melodyne (I'm talking about the "track list" in Melodyne, where the tracks names are) should also select the track (right now selecting the tiny blobs does select and change the track which is great).

- When inserting the very first instance of Melodyne in the project there should a be a dialog to confirm the tempo.

That's pretty much what I can think of for now.
All of the above would be a dream come true! Spot on for flawless work with Melodyne.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:16 PM   #21
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It loads faster now, thanks for this improvement. I guess the sluggishness is something we have to wait for Celemony to fix it
Can you just take a look at the RAM use when it's sluggish? If memory usage is through the roof, I think it's something they need to fix on their end.
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Old 06-16-2018, 08:04 PM   #22
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Can you just take a look at the RAM use when it's sluggish? If memory usage is through the roof, I think it's something they need to fix on their end.
No, Schwa. The RAM is just fine when it's sluggish. Even just one instance of Melodyne in the project when there are lots of items (not necessarily lots of takes) is difficult to work with. It's slow to move blobs, change formants, select a bunch of blobs and apply the pitch macro, etc. It's the whole experience with it that feels very slow compared to StudioOne, for example.

I'll try to make 2 videos, StudioOne vs REAPER so you can see the difference.
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:01 AM   #23
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I'll try to make 2 videos, StudioOne vs REAPER so you can see the difference.
Both with ARA2 ?
Sluggishness being abysmal notwithstanding, only this would make a decent compare possible.

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Old 06-17-2018, 01:30 AM   #24
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S1v4 does have ARA2.
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Old 06-17-2018, 04:40 AM   #25
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Hi, In new version of rme drivers have added support of 64khz. Reaper works with this sample rate, but this SR is not in settings of render. thanks!
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Old 06-17-2018, 04:42 AM   #26
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So type the SR value yourself?
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:01 AM   #27
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I didn't know that it is possible=) Thank you!
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:54 AM   #28
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I didn't know that it is possible=)

guyz @ cockos make the 'impossible' seem less so
'impossible' is a limitation of the imagination,which is limitless !!
^this is not 'do-able' in a lot of interfacing applications though as a standard setting- would be nicer if all agreed it to be though!

roll on reaper.
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:06 PM   #29
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^^^ That sounds very much like ReaControlMIDI, in a way. Otherwise it's also possible in JS FX, if more control is necessary than what RCM can provide.
You are right but reacontrol midi makes it all a bit klunky.

havent explored the JSFX option... but there again I dont do THAT much pitchbend stuff these days.
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:11 PM   #30
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I just record my pitchbends.
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:37 AM   #31
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- A command (and Mouse Modifier) to load Melodyne on selected tracks OR items (there should be two different commands, I think).
You can do this already. Right-click Melodyne (or any FX) in the Add-FX window and choose "create shortcut". That shortcut will then add the FX to all selected tracks if the track area was most recently clicked, or all selected media items if the arrange area was most recently clicked.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:13 AM   #32
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You can do this already. Right-click Melodyne (or any FX) in the Add-FX window and choose "create shortcut". That shortcut will then add the FX to all selected tracks if the track area was most recently clicked, or all selected media items if the arrange area was most recently clicked.
There are a couple of problems with this. If the option in Preferences is enabled (float fx) all Melodyne instances will open at the same time which is unnecessary if you're using the studio version. And if that option is not enabled none will float and that's an extra unnecessary click to open one instance.

Please think about the workflow. Melodyne is not like other plugin and as such it should be treated differently, I think.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:29 AM   #33
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Please think about the workflow. Melodyne is not like other plugin and as such it should be treated differently, I think.
YES!!!
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:52 AM   #34
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There are some issues with the "create shortcut" functionality.

After using one time the shortcut, we have to select again the item or the track if we want to use again a shortcut inside the same place.

It's not possible to use a shortcut inside a track FX if we put the mouse cursor on the track (actually it's only possible inside the track panel).

Same thing if we put the mouse cursor on the FX Window (for the track or item).
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:58 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
- Right now we have options to "apply FX...", "render selected tracks to stems" and "freeze selected tracks" which we can choose from to apply the Melodyne process (we can even record the output which is also cool if you're just tuning a certain passage). Since Melodyne is always loaded as first FX in the FX chain I think it would be safe to have a special-case command to "apply Melodyne on selected tracks" (this would save us a lot of time if we have other plug-ins in the chain. We wouldn't have to bypass or offline them first).
What would be the most useful place to start with this? An action to render the first FX to selected tracks as a stem and then offline the first FX? Or to freeze the first FX?
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:53 AM   #36
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What would be the most useful place to start with this? An action to render the first FX to selected tracks as a stem and then offline the first FX? Or to freeze the first FX?
Not sure what should be the answer here , but maybe both?

Anyway just wanted to ask Devs to consider this, since it is very related:
FR: FREEZE Take/Item FX + Take Envelopes
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207176

and
req: Render Tracks to stems according to loop selection
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207177
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
What would be the most useful place to start with this? An action to render the first FX to selected tracks as a stem and then offline the first FX? Or to freeze the first FX?
I think a sort of freeze of the first FX would be a nice start point. But please call this action something people can immediately relate to Melodyne. I mean, REAPER has lots of options like I said to achieve this but I'm thinking about the new or occasional user who just want to tune a few things here and there so having an option in the tracks menu would be ideal.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:44 PM   #38
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Schwa, I'm not sure if these two GIFs can show the differences between Melodyne in REAPER vs StudioOne:

StudioOne: https://imgur.com/4kVbQi6

REAPER: https://imgur.com/lHZBbgu

Hopefully, you'll see how blobs get stuck when you try to move them or edit the pitch modulation in REAPER and how fluent it is in StudioOne. The RAM usage is very low and the project is exactly the same on both: six vocal tracks (consolidated, no takes or separate items on tracks, just full files on each track).
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:44 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Schwa, I'm not sure if these two GIFs can show the differences between Melodyne in REAPER vs StudioOne:

StudioOne: https://imgur.com/4kVbQi6

REAPER: https://imgur.com/lHZBbgu

Hopefully, you'll see how blobs get stuck when you try to move them or edit the pitch modulation in REAPER and how fluent it is in StudioOne. The RAM usage is very low and the project is exactly the same on both: six vocal tracks (consolidated, no takes or separate items on tracks, just full files on each track).
What does CPU usage look like in both cases? Also, is this using exactly the same version of Melodyne in both cases?
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:26 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
What does CPU usage look like in both cases? Also, is this using exactly the same version of Melodyne in both cases?
Around 10% in both cases. Yes, Melodyne 4.2.009.

This is a MacPro with a 3,5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5 processor, 12 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 RAM and AMD FirePro D500 3072 MB for video.
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