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01-19-2016, 01:00 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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v5.12rc2 - January 19 2016
+ JSFX: increase slider control refresh rate
+ Media Explorer: make the ESC key always close the window [t=171615]
+ VST: improve detection of VST2/VST3 toggle parameters
# Installer: allow disable of bridging support
full list for 5.12 here
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01-19-2016, 01:02 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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+ JSFX: increase slider control refresh rate
Thanks!
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01-19-2016, 02:25 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
+ JSFX: increase slider control refresh rate
Thanks!
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What is it?
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01-19-2016, 02:36 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
What is it?
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It means that automated js sliders are no longer as "jerky" when being remotely moved.
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01-19-2016, 07:17 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 1,211
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One update a day since the begging of the year! New year resolution, a bet... or both?
Well, you did actually cheat, there was no RC1.
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01-19-2016, 07:26 PM
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#6
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos
One update a day since the begging of the year! New year resolution, a bet... or both?
Well, you did actually cheat, there was no RC1.
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there was, it was Jan 5 I think.
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01-19-2016, 07:28 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos
Well, you did actually cheat, there was no RC1.
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There was!
But then the devs added some more stuff instead.
EDIT: Justin beat me to it!
__________________
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note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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01-19-2016, 07:35 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 1,211
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I forgot about this one. So now you're one day late... Still impressive!
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01-19-2016, 07:45 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 74
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non-defeatable noise added
I tested 64-bit v5.12rc2 on Win8.1 today and narrowed down where REAPER is adding unwanted noise. Justin, please give users artistic control on how to handle denormalization!
As background, I already know about these ways to avoid added noise:
1. Options > Preferences... > Plug-ins > Compatibility > uncheck "Reduce denormalization from plug-ins (recommended)"
2. "ext_nodenorm=1.0;" in JSFX @init section
3. File > Render > uncheck "Dither" and "Noise shaping"
I can manually reduce denormalization as explained here:
http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...xing_Denormals
The first problem I found is that REAPER is adding non-defeatable noise to each track. I confirmed this by creating a simple 1-track 192-kHz project with a 24-bit hi-res WAV file inserted from http://www.soundkeeperrecordings.com/format.htm
With all default settings (gain controls at 0dB and the pan centered), I rendered to a 24-bit WAV file with dither and noise shaping disabled. I compared listening to this project through REAPER's WASAPI exclusive-mode output to my Lynx Hilo DAC with high quality headphones, and comparing it to the input WAV file on the bit-perfect XMPlay player. See http://www.un4seen.com/forum/?topic=17008.0
REAPER sounds more muffled and dull. I also compared the input and REAPER-rendered WAV files through XMPlay. Again, the REAPER-rendered version sounded more muffled and dull.
What makes REAPER's added denormalization noise on each track worse is that I usually chain several tracks to get better multiprocessing performance (faster offline renders, more FX in real time when processing hi-res recordings). Each chain track adds yet more unwanted noise. Please give us a way to defeat this!
The second problem I found is that unchecking "Reduce denormalization from plug-ins (recommended)" has no effect on JSFX. This means that I have to modify every JSFX I use that has an audio input, which includes JSFX I wrote, Cockos-supplied JSFX and 3rd-party JSFX. What a pain! I did this for a test hi-res project with 3 audio JSFX, and sound quality improvement was stunning. Please give us a global setting for JSFX, or maybe have "Reduce denormalization from plug-ins (recommended)" affect JSFX also (like users probably expect).
Are there any other places in REAPER's processing that denormalization is performed where users have no way to defeat it? For example, should splitting up the code of a JSFX between two separate JSFXs produce bit-identical results?
Last edited by Castanuelas; 01-19-2016 at 09:10 PM.
Reason: Corrected my method to reproduce the first problem
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01-19-2016, 09:40 PM
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#10
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanuelas
I tested 64-bit v5.12rc2 on Win8.1 today and narrowed down where REAPER is adding unwanted noise. Justin, please give users artistic control on how to handle denormalization!
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I've just made a quick test:
http://1014.org/_/noise_test.RPP
Requires: https://archive.org/download/soundke...05-01-2496.zip
I did the 24/96khz test rather than 192khz, but 192khz will behave identically.
In this test, there are 3 layers of nested folder tracks -- the bottommost one has ReaEQ, the second ReaFIR, and the third the Stillwell 3x3 JSFX. All of these are in neutral settings (meaning no filters are applied), but REAPER itself treats them as normal and applies denormal noise normally.
My REAPER settings are stock (reduce denormalization enabled, etc).
If you render the project with the configured render settings, it produces a file whose sample contents are bit-identical to that of the original. You can confirm this by opening a command prompt and executing:
Code:
fc /b noise_test.wav sr005-01-2496.wav
In my case, it produces this:
Code:
Comparing files C:\TEMP\noise_test.wav and DESKTOP\NOISE_TEST\SR005-01-2496.WAV
00000004: 24 72
00000005: 08 C2
00000006: 2E 46
FC: DESKTOP\NOISE_TEST\SR005-01-2496.WAV longer than C:\TEMP\noise_test.wav
(the original WAV is longer because of an additional chunk, the length difference accounts for 3 bytes changing early in the file).
To explain your test results: - It is possible you don't have settings configured properly for a bit-accurate render. If you post your project I'd be happy to take a look.
- Listening tests are not always reliable. Having identical bits is irrefutable proof.
Finally, you should be aware that denormalization noise is incredibly small, so small that it has no bearing whatsoever on the output in all but the most extreme circumstances.
Oh, also:
Quote:
What makes REAPER's added denormalization noise on each track worse is that I usually chain several tracks to get better multiprocessing performance (faster offline renders, more FX in real time when processing hi-res recordings). Each chain track adds yet more unwanted noise. Please give us a way to defeat this!
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This is an incorrect observation -- denormalization noise is handled at the plug-in level, not the track level. So nesting folder tracks or performing routing makes no difference at all.
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01-20-2016, 09:30 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Shortcut keys stop working
Reaper 5.12pre16
Has anybody else experienced this, the shortcut keys stop working?
This happened to me yesterday and when I closed/reopened Reaper, the shortcut keys were working again.
It just happened again this morning, and like yesterday, when I closed/reopened Reaper, they were working again.
All toolbars and transport buttons still work, it seems to be just the shortcut keys.
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01-20-2016, 10:40 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
+ JSFX: increase slider control refresh rate
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THANK YOU ! THANK YOU ! THANK YOU ! made my day, everything is much much nicer now.
In fact can the refresh rate of sliders be exposed ?
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01-20-2016, 10:52 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 74
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non-defeatable noise added
Justin, thanks for doing the test and posting your project and methodology. I need more time to set up an objective test for the noise problems I have been hearing and working around. Is there a wiki entry or forum post about all the settings needed for a bit-accurate render (in case I missed something)?
In the mean time, could you comment on the second problem I found, which is that unchecking "Reduce denormalization from plug-ins (recommended)" has no effect on JSFX?
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01-20-2016, 10:58 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castanuelas
Justin, thanks for doing the test and posting your project and methodology. I need more time to set up an objective test for the noise problems I have been hearing and working around. Is there a wiki entry or forum post about all the settings needed for a bit-accurate render (in case I missed something)?
In the mean time, could you comment on the second problem I found, which is that unchecking "Reduce denormalization from plug-ins (recommended)" has no effect on JSFX?
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Make sure it's a double blind "ABX" test.
Ironically there's a JS effect specially made for that but you might find it too noisy!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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01-20-2016, 11:00 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
Reaper 5.12pre16
Has anybody else experienced this, the shortcut keys stop working?
This happened to me yesterday and when I closed/reopened Reaper, the shortcut keys were working again.
It just happened again this morning, and like yesterday, when I closed/reopened Reaper, they were working again.
All toolbars and transport buttons still work, it seems to be just the shortcut keys.
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Not so far no. Only thing I've noticed is that on first launch of reaper, it slightly hangs now on the controller bit for about 4 seconds that it never use to do.
It's fine on further launches
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
Last edited by musicbynumbers; 01-20-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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01-20-2016, 02:52 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
Not so far no. Only think I've noticed is that on first launch of reaper, it slightly hangs now on the controller bit for about 4 seconds that it never use to do.
It's fine on further launches
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Thank mbn, I had a client today so I rolled back to 5.11 to make sure it didn't happen while he was here, and I've had no problem.
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