Snapshots

[sammydix]

I've been using Reaper for years and am just now getting into Snapshots. One question: If you "clean project directory," will it take snapshots into consideration before deleting the files, or treat the deletion only for the presently chosen project? So if you 'clean' a recent snapshot, then go back to a prev snapshot, will the associated files still be there?

[sammydix]

No one knows?

[foxAsteria]

Snapshots are saved with the project and do not exist as files, which is what cleaning will get rid of (unused files in the project folder). Snapshots also have nothing to do with files. So if you e.g. take a snapshot of a mix, remove some tracks, clean your project folder and then take another snapshot, the first snapshot might try to restore the missing tracks but won't find the deleted audio files.

It's better to do mix-downs of versioned project files and compare those in that case. If you add renders to the render queue using the "offline (idle)" option, you can have Reaper do a batch of mixdowns in the background and still use your computer while you wait, which is really convenient.

EDIT: Of course the queued renders won't find missing files either, so that's not a solution. Basically, never clean your project folder in the middle of a project.

[sammydix]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

if you e.g. take a snapshot of a mix, remove some tracks, clean your project folder and then take another snapshot, the first snapshot might try to restore the missing tracks but won't find the deleted audio files.

That right there is precisely what I wanted to know. Thanks a bunch Fox.

[karbomusic]

Be careful with snapshots, it's as if they screw sends up sometimes - that you can't undo your way out of best I can tell. I've had them completely barf a working mix - last time it occurred, I just stopped using them.

[sammydix]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Be careful with snapshots, it's as if they screw sends up sometimes - that you can't undo your way out of best I can tell. I've had them completely barf a working mix - last time it occurred, I just stopped using them.

Thanks Karbo. I mostly use folders, but I do have sends within folders. So that might be even worse. Snapshots are convenient as hell for what I want to use them for, but I see now you have to be veeeery careful.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by sammydix

Snapshots are convenient as hell for what I want to use them for.

Same here, I finally just started using "save as new version", not as handy but 100% reliable. The mixes I had snapshot issues with were fairly complex but that "WTF" for 10 minutes before I realized it was the snapshot's fault (and undo making it worse), was the last straw; but could simply be YMMV as I'm venting a bit.

[nofish]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Be careful with snapshots, it's as if they screw sends up sometimes - that you can't undo your way out of best I can tell. I've had them completely barf a working mix - last time it occurred, I just stopped using them.

Yeah, snapshots and sends are broken for long unfortunately.

https://github.com/reaper-oss/sws/issues/537

[sammydix]

The "save as new version" is another feature I've never used much, but I'm gonna look into that...right now, actually. My Reaper 2018 resolution was to start using it more at its max potential instead of sticking with my tried and true, but slooooower way of doing things. I had to ask myself, "Why, when I have all this power?"

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by sammydix

The "save as new version" is another feature I've never used much, but I'm gonna look into that...right now, actually.

I just began using them on my latest band project. The method I came up with is fairly simple, anytime I'm trying something new, next logical step, think there is a chance I might want to revert because what I'm about to do could go wrong or not work out... I hit a new version and keep rolling which gives me a known, fixed point in time I can fall back too as needed. Also good for "WFT was I thinking" comparisons if my ears get tired.

Another trick is let's say I've worked on 10 tracks between V1 and V2, but I find one of those tracks I've dorked up and want what I had before. I can just open both versions, copy the single track from V1 and paste it into V2 and delete the bad one, prevents me from losing all the other work I did. On one occasion I screwed up the bass players track and didn't notice for like a week, I just went back to the version before I broke it, which was like 10 versions earlier, and just copied that single track into the new version = LIFESAVER.

I additionally set my renders to use something like this: SongName [Pre Master] $month-$day-$year which I've saved as rendering presets. The way that works out is I can always associate a render with a previous project version by matching the RPP modified date with the date in the render filename - Would be nice if there was a wildcard for project version # but there isn't. Either way, ideas to throw in the hat.

My Reaper 2018 resolution was to start using it more at its max potential instead of sticking with my tried and true, but slooooower way of doing things. I had to ask myself, "Why, when I have all this power?"

It's worth the trouble as the time saved can be used for making more music.

[sammydix]

That was just my reasoning. I appreciate the tips. I pasted them into my present Project notes so I won't forget. Thx man.

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by nofish

Yeah, snapshots and sends are broken for long unfortunately.

https://github.com/reaper-oss/sws/issues/537

Really good to know this, esp since I've been much more heavily into recording automation and use snapshots a lot.

EDIT: except I can't reproduce it here, even in the test project. Automation saves and recalls fine.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Really good to know this, esp since I've been much more heavily into recording automation and use snapshots a lot.

EDIT: except I can't reproduce it here, even in the test project. Automation saves and recalls fine.

Have you try send automation ?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Be careful with snapshots, it's as if they screw sends up sometimes - that you can't undo your way out of best I can tell. I've had them completely barf a working mix - last time it occurred, I just stopped using them.

Yeah, same here, I tried to get them to work right after I started using Reaper and found that out right away. I thought it was just me, but after trying it a few times I decided they just didn't work.

Regarding project names, I use a number system that works pretty well for me. A project might look something like this:

01 Song Name 1 (Strt) 1
01 Song Name 1 (Strt) 2
01 Song Name 2 (add LdGtr) 1
01 Song Name 2 (add BGV) 2
02 Song Name 1 (arang strngs) 1
-->
08 Song Name 1 (mix) 1 3-22-18
08 Song Name 1 (mix) 2 3-24-18

Then I use 10, 20, 30, 40, etc. for special little associated projects. For exammple, I use 20 for rendering midi, and usually 50 for mastering.

I use this consistently so it helps me keep things straight.

[foxAsteria]

@ovnis yikes. yea that's a helluva bug... it's had some attention from sws this month (moved from medium to high priority), so hopefully they're getting around to fixing it.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Tod

Yeah, same here, I tried to get them to work right after I started using Reaper and found that out right away. I thought it was just me, but after trying it a few times I decided they just didn't work.

Regarding project names, I use a number system that works pretty well for me. A project might look something like this:

01 Song Name 1 (Strt) 1
01 Song Name 1 (Strt) 2
01 Song Name 2 (add LdGtr) 1
01 Song Name 2 (add BGV) 2
02 Song Name 1 (arang strngs) 1
-->
08 Song Name 1 (mix) 1 3-22-18
08 Song Name 1 (mix) 2 3-24-18

Then I use 10, 20, 30, 40, etc. for special little associated projects. For exammple, I use 20 for rendering midi, and usually 50 for mastering.

I use this consistently so it helps me keep things straight.

Gotcha. Once I make enough changes that I think matter, I just hit "Save as new version" which increments the project name with _#, then unless something goes wrong, the highest number is "the" one. I always use modified date of the RPP itself for reference but use dates as a wildcard for all renders. I can tell how hard I worked on a song by how high the version number goes LOL but those and carefully chosen wildcards mean I never have to remember to type, remember or keep up with the filename changes most of the time, they occur automatically.

The only other difference is the render name changes as I go but not the project name..

Some Song [Tracking] 1.1.2018.Wav

Some Song [PreMaster] 1.10.2018.Wav

Some Song [FinalMaster] 1.20.2018.wav

And so on.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Yea. Loading the snapshot for me does not affect send automation:

I don't remember it being send automation but problems with accurately saving/recalling sends in general, if it happens you cannot undo your way out of it and will have to revert to a backup of the RPP. It may also not just be a recall but an undo (or similar) somewhere in between saves/recalls that triggers it. I don't remember the details but the bug is there and it is very nasty when it occurs in a complex project.

Be careful.

[nofish]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Yea. Loading the snapshot for me does not affect send automation:

That's a volume envelope you have there it seems though. Try saving/restoring a snapshot with a visible send volume envelope which contains some envelope points.

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by nofish

That's a volume envelope you have there it seems though. Try saving/restoring a snapshot with a visible send volume envelope which contains some envelope points.

derp. yea i was just waking up when i posted that... lemme try again.

EDIT: ok, yea you guys are right... Nasty bugger.

[ovnis]

Hello !

Any news about the send automation issue with the snapshot recall ?

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Any news about the send automation issue with the snapshot recall ?

So far it's been too difficult to fix, or maybe there is some limitation with the Reaper API, but we just have to leave sends out when working with snapshots. We have actions for toggling all the settings, so the only option rn is to avoid using the full mix setting and toggling the other settings as needed.

It might be possible to still get the same results by copying the automation items, but I haven't looked into it yet.

[mdkb]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

so the only option rn is to avoid using the full mix setting and toggling the other settings as needed.

A few years later, version 6.25, and I just ran into this problem with trying to save a snapshot of my mix.

It's got 14 tracks, all midi, no routing, no FX (except the instruments and some JS midi CC routing). When I tried to save the "Full Mix" snapshot it sent my Reaper project into an endless loop of FX screen loading, wouldnt let me at anything, and then eventually crashed. I restarted and tried again to no avail.

This recommended trick worked, so it seems like there is still something weird about the "Full Mix" settings of Snapshot that Reaper doesnt like. Workaround is to use the custom Snapshot (I only needed pan,volume, and mute) and it's now working fine.

[nofish]

Originally Posted by mdkb

A few years later, version 6.25, and I just ran into this problem with trying to save a snapshot of my mix.

It's got 14 tracks, all midi, no routing, no FX (except the instruments and some JS midi CC routing). When I tried to save the "Full Mix" snapshot it sent my Reaper project into an endless loop of FX screen loading, wouldnt let me at anything, and then eventually crashed. I restarted and tried again to no avail.

This recommended trick worked, so it seems like there is still something weird about the "Full Mix" settings of Snapshot that Reaper doesnt like. Workaround is to use the custom Snapshot (I only needed pan,volume, and mute) and it's now working fine.

If you have a reliable way to reproduce it'd be nice if you open an issue on the SWS tracker ideally with a minimal example project that shows the issue.