Create perfect sample loops in Reaper

[Tod]

Hi all,

I was asked to show how I create multi-timbre looped samples in Reaper. This is one of the ways.

There is no need for zero crossings or crossfades. These are perfect loop points.

https://youtu.be/coZ4xpfi2Bs

Although I used three tracks it can actually be done with two, I just used the reversed mid track to show you some of the possibilities and give you something to think about.

If you have any questions, please ask.

Sorry for no dialog, my old voice has gotten to the point it's embarrassing.

EDIT: Here's a video where I process 12 seamless loops in 72 seconds. After I finish processing the samples I play each loop so you can hear their seamless glitch free loops.

You'll hear a little stutter when I change each loop, but that's just the play cursor changing positions. The thing to listen to is the play cursor as it performs the loop, you'll hear no glitches of any kind. Incidentally, I added a little dialog to this one.

https://youtu.be/gup0XcNapmI

[Plazma]

Hey Tod, thanks for this cool video. This is an easy way to make seamless loops.

[DanHunter]

I am sorry if its a dumb question, but how do you get to use thsi fancy toolbar (Toolbar 6 in your video)? Is it a built in tollbar or some kind of custom made thing?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Plazma

Hey Tod, thanks for this cool video. This is an easy way to make seamless loops.

Hi Plazma, yeah, and the thing is they are indeed all seamless when you get done.

Originally Posted by DanHunter

I am sorry if its a dumb question, but how do you get to use thsi fancy toolbar (Toolbar 6 in your video)? Is it a built in tollbar or some kind of custom made thing?

Hi Dan, yeah, Toolbar-6 is my sample editing toolbar, I've got it set up do a lot redundant things. It's always evolving depending on which samples I'm editing. Right now I'm working on orchestra samples but in the near future I'll be working on another multi-miced drums library.

I've been working on my macros for working with the envelopes and thanks to FnA who made a script for selecting envelopes, I've got a way of selecting the envelopes now.

I hope to add another video later today or in the morning where I'm doing 12 samples. With my new macros it's really pretty fast.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Tod

I hope to add another video later today or in the morning where I'm doing 12 samples. With my new macros it's really pretty fast.

Okay, I got the video together, processing 12 seamlessly looped samples. It only took me 72 seconds to process the 12 looped samples. Heh heh, that's 6 seconds a sample.

After I finish processing the samples I play each loop so you can hear their seamless glitch free loops.

You'll hear a little stutter when I change each loop, but that's just the play cursor changing positions. The thing to listen to is the play cursor as it performs the loop, you'll hear no glitches of any kind.

https://youtu.be/gup0XcNapmI

[Ozman]

Hi, Tod...
Thanks for making this thread.
I'm checking out the video now.

This is wild.
I'm gonna have to take a moment to break this down and digest it.

[EpicSounds]

That's cool Tod. But what happens next? How would one go about looping that part as long as they need?

Do you export the samples with regions and media cues for the looped area?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Ozman

This is wild.
I'm gonna have to take a moment to break this down and digest it.

Hi Ozman, it was actually you that spurred me in to showing how I do this.

I just really want to do this all in reaper or atleast have a tool or workflow optimally dedicated to making samples have sustainable loops, even for highly transient, short percussive loops.

Although, short percussive loops would be pretty difficult, I think this method may offer the best possible way to do it.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by EpicSounds

That's cool Tod. But what happens next? How would one go about looping that part as long as they need?

Do you export the samples with regions and media cues for the looped area?

Hi Jon, it's already a continuous loop so it will loop for ever as long as you hold the note.

Yes, it unfortunately has to be done with regions.

It would be great if Reaper could do it with just plain markers, then we could use regions for saving the samples, all in one go. So it takes a few extra steps for saving them, but that's okay, it still goes pretty quickly.

[Ozman]

Ok... after studying it, it seems to have some similarities to suggestions I've seen before, with copying and reversal. With the kind of samples you're using, I believe that your approach IS the best approach, and it sounds quite natural as a result.

I'd like to also find an interactive tool for such.

Maybe you could try out this tool I just found with me.

Björn Bojahr - Endless WAV
http://www.bjoernbojahr.de/index_windowssoftware.html

You may need to translate the page.
Well, I'm about to try this software out and see how easy it is to get something useful.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Ozman

Ok... after studying it, it seems to have some similarities to suggestions I've seen before, with copying and reversal. With the kind of samples you're using, I believe that your approach IS the best approach, and it sounds quite natural as a result.

I'd like to also find an interactive tool for such.

Maybe you could try out this tool I just found with me.

Björn Bojahr - Endless WAV
http://www.bjoernbojahr.de/index_windowssoftware.html

You may need to translate the page.
Well, I'm about to try this software out and see how easy it is to get something useful.

Hi Ozman, yes, I've got that and it works pretty well, but it can be quite fiddly to get glitch free loops.

[Ozman]

Yeah, I've just added it as an external editor.
For what it does, I think it is the best. Strangely, It seems that crossfades somehow make "stay" with the loop. Have you noticed such?

Anyway, duplicating and reversing is a sure-fire way for seamless looping.

BUT (the huge "But"), I don't think it may work well for some conditions, like if the sound's texture is such that reversing it actually changes its character. Idunno... I guess I always felt there could be times that reversing would sound "reversed".

[Ozman]

What would be really useful, is a lua script that can interactively create hidden tracks and provide an interface showing the waves and the loop points and at the same time even use multiple methods such as stretching and reversal to get a desired loop.

Before that, I guess we can do things manually.

Also, I'm seeing a problem with Gluing and CTRL + Dragging media items/samples that have loop regions/points: The loop regions disappear!

Is there a setting to prevent that from happening?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Ozman

Yeah, I've just added it as an external editor.
For what it does, I think it is the best. Strangely, It seems that crossfades somehow make "stay" with the loop. Have you noticed such?

Actually, I've seen mention that the crossfades didn't work so well in that piece of software.

Anyway, duplicating and reversing is a sure-fire way for seamless looping.

BUT (the huge "But"), I don't think it may work well for some conditions, like if the sound's texture is such that reversing it actually changes its character. Idunno... I guess I always felt there could be times that reversing would sound "reversed".

Yes, there are many sounds that it won't work well with, but I think most of those sounds are probably not suitable for looping.

Also keep in mind you don't necessarily need that third track with the reversed sample, you can do it with just the samples on track 1 and 2 as I show them. The only problem with that is that the looped section will be much shorter and if it's too short it can sound unrealistic.

Also you don't necessarily need to reverse the 3rd track, you can still place it in a suitable position, but that will also make the loop shorter then if you reverse it.

Originally Posted by Ozman

Also, I'm seeing a problem with Gluing and CTRL + Dragging media items/samples that have loop regions/points: The loop regions disappear!

Is there a setting to prevent that from happening?

Is this before you've saved the sample. In order to have the loop points show on the samples, they need to be saved first, with the option "Regions only" selected. You'll find that option in the dropdown menu where it says "Do not include markers or regions".

Then if you re-insert that saved sample, it will show the loop points, and I think you can also copy/paste it. However, I think if you glue it, then the loop points will be deleted.

[Ozman]

Originally Posted by Tod

In order to have the loop points show on the samples, they need to be saved first, with the option "Regions only" selected. You'll find that option in the dropdown menu where it says "Do not include markers or regions".

Then if you re-insert that saved sample, it will show the loop points, and I think you can also copy/paste it. However, I think if you glue it, then the loop points will be deleted.

I understand that; however, I would like to glue as well as ctrl+alt+drag the media item/file and it retain it's cues/regions. I sometimes ctrl+alt+drag samples into samplers from the arrange view. But currently, if I'm trying to retain the cues/regions, I've got to do it from either the Media Explorer or Windows Explorer.

----

This may need to be a feature request for item options.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Ozman

I understand that; however, I would like to glue as well as ctrl+alt+drag the media item/file and it retain it's cues/regions. I sometimes ctrl+alt+drag samples into samplers from the arrange view. But currently, if I'm trying to retain the cues/regions, I've got to do it from either the Media Explorer or Windows Explorer.

----

This may need to be a feature request for item options.

I'm not sure why you'd want to do all that when creating sample loops, it seems a little out of the realm of what we're discussing here. However, if you use markers instead of regions, you can create macros to move or copy the item(s) or even Ctrl+Aldt-Drag. You have to select the item(s) and make a Time Selection for it first.

I use markers anyway until I'm ready to save the sample with the loop points stored with it. When I do want to save the sample I create regions where the markers are.

[run_esc]

This is excellent, Tod, works with a bit of tweaking on some long synthesizer samples I recorded. I'm sizing up ways to create a script that could turn Reaper into an "auto-multi-sampler" for outboard synthesizers (or VSTi, for that matter) and similar, to create multi-sampled instruments, so this is the kind of thing I'm thinking about lately. Thanks for the tip.

[Ozman]

Originally Posted by run_esc

This is excellent, Tod, works with a bit of tweaking on some long synthesizer samples I recorded. I'm sizing up ways to create a script that could turn Reaper into an "auto-multi-sampler" for outboard synthesizers (or VSTi, for that matter) and similar, to create multi-sampled instruments, so this is the kind of thing I'm thinking about lately. Thanks for the tip.

I've been thinking of an automated way as well for recording pitches and velocities for multi-sampled instruments.

[ReaMike]

Originally Posted by run_esc

This is excellent, Tod, works with a bit of tweaking on some long synthesizer samples I recorded. I'm sizing up ways to create a script that could turn Reaper into an "auto-multi-sampler" for outboard synthesizers (or VSTi, for that matter) and similar, to create multi-sampled instruments, so this is the kind of thing I'm thinking about lately. Thanks for the tip.

Did you ever get around to creating that script?

[ReaMike]

Hi Tod, Could you provide a list of the actions you're using? And how are samples exported with loop points encoded?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by ReaMike

Hi Tod, Could you provide a list of the actions you're using? And how are samples exported with loop points encoded?

Hi ReaMike, regarding the actions, every sample project is different, so I don't have a list so to speak. I've got 3 different
toolbars that I have set up just for sample editing, and they all change with each project. This is a picture of 2 of them.

Most of the buttons you see there are either custom actions or scripts, or a combination of both. I'm sorry, but it would be
impossible for me to explain all the actions.



Regarding rendering the samples with loop points, the only way I know of is to use regions.

I very recently looped the harmonics for my steel guitar and this picture shows how the region is placed fight on the looped
section of the sample.


This is the Render to File and you can see where I've got Regions selected


I thought I'd include a picture of the phase alignment. This has to be done with all solo instrument samples.

[ReaMike]

Thanks Tod, that helped a lot.

Have a great Christmas!