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Old 08-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm View Post
maybe this

That is so much more direct (for piano) than the conventional staff. And it could just as well use lines and spaces rather than shaded spaces:

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A related question: Should the piano be considered a central instrument of theory and notation? I think it is helpful to have something concrete there, acting as a point of reference.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:08 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by adXok View Post
Oh, please excuse my inadvertence, maybe this would be more meaningful for the readers of the standard (inconsistent) chord writing convention:
This is so much better than the example of your system.
This has harmonic meaning. Also it is much more beautiful to look at.

Your example resembles a puzzle.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:22 AM   #243
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Maybe a more in depth study of harmony would help you. Certainly more than learning any "new system".
Harmony is absolute. It does not depend on nomenclature. But if you want to understand its elements (starting with the notes actually) you will need a specific nomenclature.

This is where our discussion here starts to take place.
"How to revamp the music notation and music theory system which are flawed?"
Current nomenclature is inconsistent. More of a special case than an complete system, hence the music theory using that nomenclature is inconsistent and ambiguous.
When you see its faults, then you will realise.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:24 AM   #244
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Maybe a more in depth study of harmony would help you.
Certainly more than learning any "new system".
What to you (according to your study of harmony), is the reasoning behind names of chord functions?
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:29 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
You'll never get more accurate than a recording. Either the audience can hear the most accurate rendition (and could care less about a transcription), or *a person capable of performing a difference in rendition can HEAR it*.

Bach cello suite in G, the prelude: Rostropovich, Casals, Yo-Yo Ma do it 3 different ways.
total elitism attitude. "meh, a person capable of performing the prelude can hear the difference. you dont need anything else, if you can't hear it...tooooo bad"


why does the idea of improving current notation seem so threatening to you?
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:36 AM   #246
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What to you (according to your study of harmony), is the reasoning behind names of chord functions?
Just look for it yourself. :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_seventh_chord

"Dominant seventh chords are often built on the fifth scale degree (or dominant) of a key."
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:36 AM   #247
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On Hao staff, I like the idea of it, but I think it should be a bit more like the conventional staff as pointed out above using lines and spaces, as well as having some sort of visual separation between octaves. Maybe a dashed line? Just call it, piano notation.

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I'm not a fan of the continuous spacing in MIDI notation where there is no visual separation between octaves.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:44 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by coolbass View Post
Just look for it yourself. :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_seventh_chord

"Dominant seventh chords are often built on the fifth scale degree (or dominant) of a key."
That doesn't really say anything about it's function. Naming it something like 'dissonant' or 'unresolved' has logical meaning.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:51 AM   #249
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Of course, there is a valid argument against Hao notation, being that it doesn't show interval relationships in trade for showing direct positional information. This is the same issue with guitar tablature.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:57 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by coolbass View Post
Your example resembles a puzzle.
What about if i had it written in Cyrillic?
It is a language, nomenclature, naming things. They do not change their essence, but how to write them down.
And my system offers complete an unambiguous writing forms for each and every possible and even impossible inversion of a chord!

Chord C? (actually means C major because we need to know that Cm is the minor triad... duh!)
Ok, which Inversion? (actually means that we need to know the inversions and write additional roman numerals but we need to agree which one is for the I, then which one is for the II and so on...)

Don't you see the problems?!
With my system you have for Cmaj7 (I) the following:


And with the inversion (flipping) you can write any inversion without the need of more space or additional Roman symbols or whatever.
You can write them with the notenames as well, if you want!
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:01 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
I'm not a fan of the continuous spacing in MIDI notation where there is no visual separation between octaves.
Where is the separator (usually it is on C) but... who said it should be there (on that note C)?
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:02 AM   #252
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How about in Hao-like notation, showing interval numbers above the notes instead of the redundant display of positional information above the notes as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxo6FzbKXs0
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:07 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
How about in Hao-like notation, showing interval numbers above the notes instead of the redundant display of positional information above the notes as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxo6FzbKXs0
Why? This staff is MIDI-piano-roll "tabulature" anyway it shows the notes but it takes HUGE amount of space - not suitable for handwriting (paper) and replay from paper sheets (way too many flipping of pages would occur). What about many instruments at ones?! Hao-staff would turn into a mess.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:11 AM   #254
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"Why is the (dominant) chord (G7) called Dominant?"
"hint: what does it dominate?"


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Originally Posted by adXok View Post
Ok, but what is "increased" tension then? How is this related to chords.
hint: what does it dominate?

the dominant note is the 5th note measured away from the tonic.

- that is the name defined in current notation system. the 4th is the sub-dominant.

the dominant is also the name of the strongest natural harmonic frequency, other than the tonic or octave itself, when the tonic (frequency f0, "f sub zero") is played. you could say it dominates all the other harmonics.

- that definition is usually not discussed in the current notation system's texts, because the law of physics is not studied with music theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmon...ics_and_tuning


the seventh chord built on the 5th of the tonic is called the dominant chord.

- that is also the name defined in the current notation.


(so, right there, brings up my original example of a simple confusion in the current system: "play the dominant." um does that mean play the note or play the chord or play the natural harmonic?)

what does it dominate? I don't know.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:18 AM   #255
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the dominant is also the name of the strongest natural harmonic frequency, other than the tonic or octave itself, when the tonic (frequency f0, "f sub zero") is played. you could say it dominates all the other harmonics.
This is regarding harmonics. The Dominant chord is the subject of that question I asked, but you are somehow closer with that explanation. The natural occurring harmonics are responsible for the timbre and they are valid for any... any tone (note)!
Although... I already showed the answer in pictures.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:19 AM   #256
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Where is the separator (usually it is on C) but... who said it should be there (on that note C)?
There are multiple things to consider here.

Do you think there should be a common instrument for communicating about music? I think there is major benefit in it. Having a common instrument is concrete, for one thing. And the piano specifically has the benefit of being played by two hands for simultaneous parts (harmony).

The dashed line is only a point of visual reference. It could be thought of just as well as existing above B, 2 lines above A, whatever. That is arbitrary, and C could be thought of as being just as arbitrary. But we need some point of agreed upon commonality. We already one. And before throwing out this convention, there should be solid reasoning and great enough benefit for it.

Also within conventional music, C is the natural scale. If we want to throw it out, we again should have solid reasoning and great enough benefit for doing so.

The way that I see it, using sharps, flats, naturals is not a major problem for communicating about music. But the standard staff notation system is archaic and convoluted.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:29 AM   #257
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Do you think there should be a common instrument for communicating about music?
The way that I see it, using sharps, flats, naturals is not a major problem for communicating about music. But the standard staff notation system is archaic and convoluted.
That is an excellent question.
Yes, there should be (if you need it to be), and...
No, if you do not want to play it, the notation should not be favouring it in any way.

A new notation system should serve any instrument that represents a "12-tonal system". Be it a saxophone, harmonica or kalimba.

The piano is a great music instrument (giant harp with multiple string per note, 3 or 2 or 1 - built in chorus effect it's got!). I highly doubt about its keyboard though! It is awful!
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:32 AM   #258
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Of course, there is a valid argument against Hao notation, being that it doesn't show interval relationships in trade for showing direct positional information. This is the same issue with guitar tablature.
There's some pro's and some con's (it contains no theory information so doesn't really apply here, the pro's fully described in the patent http://haostaff.com/lib/us_patent.pdf ), the important aspect is that, according to the creator, he has sold tens of thousands of books, in various song collection styles, and continues to add collections, which means-

1. people looking to learn to play piano are searching for a 'better' way to learn it, with enough "desperation" to try anything, even a "new, lesser-known, experimental system". (perhaps they've failed in the past with the current system, or perceive the current system is too complex for them to try)

2. people have had success with his system. they've bought the first "starter book" and continued on. which is good for his system, and good because there are more piano players in the world.

3. a brand new system (perhaps unknowingly reproducing a long-dead, prior system) of notation can be successful (adopted by people, commercially viable, helpful to individuals, etc), and successful within a short period of time, it's only been around since 2005 or so, design patented in 2008
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:36 AM   #259
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Do you think there should be a common instrument for communicating about music? I think there is major benefit in it. Having a common instrument is concrete, for one thing. And the piano specifically has the benefit of being played by two hands for simultaneous parts (harmony).
the current music system (the word "system" there also includes "system of learning" for example music schools) mandates the use of piano for learning theory and playing of piano for demonstration of theory knowledge. there is no choice. it has been decided.

whether or not piano a good choice is hotly debated yet the decision was essentially finalized long ago.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:36 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by adXok View Post
Why? This staff is MIDI-prion-roll "tabulature" anyway it shows the notes but it takes HUGE amount of space - not suitable for handwriting (paper) and replay form paper sheets (to many flipping of pages would occur). What about many instruments at ones?! Hao-staff would turn into a mess.
Every notation system has tradeoffs. But lets looks at standard vs. Hao-like from C to C:


Code:
Standard

C
____
____
____

C---

Hao-like

C
----
____
____
____

____
____
C
Is it that bad, considering the benefit?
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:49 AM   #261
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That doesn't really say anything about it's function. Naming it something like 'dissonant' or 'unresolved' has logical meaning.
"Dominant seventh chords"

i assume the underlying meaning or implied meaning of the word 'dominant' has simply been lost. which is very common in music theory (and a problem rarely allowed in other disciplines of study..if there is ambiguity..they fix the system!).

even simple words like 'sonata' have no clear meaning in music. or even the term 'rhythm' ! try to find a music theory definition of the word 'rhythm' which is actually concrete and whole in meaning...

So, 'dominant', what does it dominate, why the name 'dominant', well, it is all quite vague, especially when considering notation of the very similar chord Gmaj7 which is "not the dominant chord" yet is only a half-step modified from G7. The word dominant could just as easily be said to be chosen because it dominates above the sound of all other chord choices, i.e. it is the vice-president if the tonic-chord is the president.

My basic prior example, of G7 vs. Gmin7 vs. Gmaj7. If that does not clearly spell out the need for improvement in the system to anyone on this thread, I don't know what would. G7 can't be called "Gm7" to indicate "G-major plus the minor-7th interval" because it would be confused with the abbreviation of "G-minor plus the minor-7th interval". What a horribly flawed system of notation.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:55 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Every notation system has tradeoffs. But lets looks at standard vs. Hao-like from C to C:
Is it that bad, considering the benefit?
I said it above: it favours the piano keyboard even more than the standard staff, to the point where actually by its design Hao-staff is simpy said a tabulature for piano keyboards. It serves the piano keyboard (an accordion included). That's it.

I do not see it beneficial if I play saxophone, kalimba, guitar, harmonica, oboe, clarinet... you get the point.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:11 AM   #263
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I said it above: it favours the piano keyboard even more than the standard staff, to the point where actually by its design Hao-staff is simpy said a tabulature for piano keyboards. It serves the piano keyboard (an accordion included). That's it.

I do not see it beneficial if I play saxophone, kalimba, guitar, harmonica, oboe, clarinet... you get the point.
I get the point, but I also think that there is benefit in having a common instrument from which to communicate about music. And having a notation that directly communicates that common instrument isn't a bad approach. Of course it has it's cons. All notation systems do, and we have to weight the pros and cons. This tablature notation takes up more space. It doesn't directly communicate intervals and harmony in the contours and shapes of stacked dots (but that can be added using numbers, more directly). The standard staff is more abstract and complex, and I question whether it effectively better communicates intervals and harmony given the alternating lines and spaces for same note names across octaves and key signatures.

Here is a side-by side look: https://i.imgur.com/btlG3Gy.png

Edit: Link changed after resizing image.

And actually, after drawing up some chords, I think this does effectively communicate intervals and chords by pattern recognition. It might be worth exploring more. As far as I could tell, the Hao patent revolves around pitch stripes, which is pretty questionable whether it would hold up given the longstanding of MIDI notation using the same thing. But either way, this lines/spaces approach isn't using pitch stripes.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:55 AM   #264
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If yuo play a standard piano keyboard, then it is a combination of a standard staff overlayd on top af a standard MIDI-piano roll.
Takes up HUGE amount of space.
Unless you substitute it for: Klavarskribo (link: KLAVARSKRIBO)
This one is way better than Hao-staff (naming a notation after your name... c'mon...)
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:28 PM   #265
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Klavarskribo (link: KLAVARSKRIBO)
ah! not sure I had seen that one. " a music notation system that was introduced in 1931 by the Dutchman Cornelis Pot"

similar to the idea of the Rocksmith video game (with a somewhat-vertical "lane" of music notes..or am i confusing it with the other one, guitar hero), or piano synthesia app, (here shown with a commercial accessory which lights each keyboard key with an LED to guide the playing)





* note, personally I disagree with these sorts of "let's make it easy by dumbing down everything" systems, including hao staff, because to me, the best thing is simply take the grand staff and find each note using a reference, at first, and play it.. it really is not that hard, but, current piano books certainly make it very hard in their presentation of the (supposed) 'lessons'. It would be better to improve the grand staff itself into a "version 2.0"..not dumb it down..
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:49 PM   #266
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* note, personally I disagree with these sorts of "let's make it easy by dumbing down everything" systems, including hao staff, because to me, the best thing is simply take the grand staff and find each note using a reference, at first, and play it.. it really is not that hard, but, current piano books certainly make it very hard in their presentation of the (supposed) 'lessons'. It would be better to improve the grand staff itself into a "version 2.0"..not dumb it down..
I wouldn't necessarily describe a tablature notation as 'dumbing down', which implies a loss of information. If a more direct notation carries the same information as a less direct one, that is a smarter approach. But the pros and cons have to be weighed against other notation systems. What information is lost in this piano tablature approach?
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:58 PM   #267
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It would be better to improve the grand staff itself into a "version 2.0"..not dumb it down..
It is too late, I'm afraid.
First the Nomenclature has to change and not to favour the "white" keys of a standard piano keyboard by discriminating the "black" keys for not giving them proper independent names and place in Music society. No historical puns were intended.
Those niggas deserve it! They work, they deliver in many chords and tonalities.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:12 PM   #268
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umm i definitely would call hao staff, synthesia, and even MIDI graphic representation if it's used for sight-playing, a dumbing down. call it what it is. there's no expressive marks, they're purposely removed. don't argue just to argue, call it like it is. guitar-tab is great too, it both adds information yet removes information (pitch dots, phrases, etc) so is also a method of slightly dumbing-down music, _but_ it retains many expressive marks and even adds expressive marks which staff doesn't (can't) show (like individual pitch bends, slides, artificial harmonics, rakes, theres many others). similar arguments have been made for MIDI presentation so... just refer to all of that, for the pro's and con's. I will never buy "the idiot's guide to.." or a "complete dummy's book of.." which are reductions of information quality in every case.

my biggest beef with grand staff is the ledger line system. i'm playing a piano sheet which has up to five ledger-lines down from the treble clef (for the right hand..while left hand has its own notes to play in bass clef). ledger lines are awful. which is exactly the main reason guitarists don't like grand staff either and prefer tab- not only the neck-position indication- but the excessive ledger lines which make the staff hard to read.

the bottom line is that a new system should not eliminate information. it should retain existing information plus incorporate more meaning. That is what it means to be a "v2.0, revamped and upgraded". otherwise it moves backwards.

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Old 08-18-2019, 01:17 PM   #269
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not to favour the "white" keys of a standard piano keyboard
there is some history to the idea of a hexagonal keyboard layout for instruments. is that what you referred to when designing your layout? or did you start from a different place?
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:31 PM   #270
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umm i definitely would call hao staff, synthesia, and even MIDI graphic representation if it's used for sight-playing, a dumbing down. call it what it is. there's no expressive marks, they're purposely removed. don't argue just to argue, call it like it is. guitar-tab is great too, it both adds information yet removes information (pitch dots, phrases, etc) so is also a method of slightly dumbing-down music, _but_ it retains many expressive marks and even adds expressive marks which staff doesn't (can't) show (like individual pitch bends, slides, artificial harmonics, rakes, theres many others). similar arguments have been made for MIDI presentation so... just refer to all of that, for the pro's and con's. I will never buy "the idiot's guide to.." or a "complete dummy's book of.." which are reductions of information quality in every case.

my biggest beef with grand staff is the ledger line system. i'm playing a piano sheet which has up to five ledger-lines down from the treble clef (for the right hand..while left hand has its own notes to play in bass clef). ledger lines are awful. which is exactly the main reason guitarists don't like grand staff either and prefer tab- not only the neck-position indication- but the excessive ledger lines which make the staff hard to read.

the bottom line is that a new system should not eliminate information. it should retain existing information plus incorporate more meaning. That is what it means to be a "v2.0, revamped and upgraded". otherwise it moves backwards.
I guess you are looking at these tablature notations at face value, rather than as a foundation for a new notation system. I see no reason that a piano tablature notation couldn't have any necessary expressive marks as in standard notation. It's the same essential dots on lines and spaces as standard notation, only in a more direct layout. Whatever system is used, there has to be pitch names for communicating. So with a tablature notation, pitch names of piano keys should still be taught.

Guitar tab on the other hand is very different in that unless it is accompanied by standard notation (or some other form of notation), it is only positional information and nothing else. But I guess that gets down to how a person has come to think primarily about the guitar neck, in terms of fret numbers (positions)or notes (pitches).

On Klavar notation and any notation using vertical time I think it isn't practical for a general notation. As soon as you begin adding chord names, lyrics, etc., it will eat tons of horizontal space. A single chord name could eat up as much space as a vertical staff. Not good.

On ledger lines, they are only smaller versions of the grand staff. If you have no issues with the grand staff, you should have no issues with ledger lines. But many people do have issues reading/writing on the grand staff because of the alternating lines/spaces of same note names.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:38 PM   #271
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there is some history to the idea of a hexagonal keyboard layout for instruments. is that what you referred to when designing your layout? or did you start from a different place?
Oh, the idea is old, really. And to be precise - mine is derived from a hexagonal footprint of a key, but it has more modern (curved) and sloped shape of each key (some are hexagonal, some are irregular pentagons for obvious reason - closing the front and back ends.)

T. Dreschke managed to build a typical hexagonal (+ irr. pentagonal mixed with standard rectangonal) design. Please, see the attached image from some of my above posts.
He derived the idea from even older concepts. We're speaking of about 200+ years ago.

Mine is an improvement and I believe a quite important one (several actually). I also think, that because of the state of the art back then (no plastics, no CAD, no proper tools for manufacturing, etc.) those designers couldn't offer much. But the influence they had on me is obvious.

There are several attempts in modern days (late XXth century till a couple years ago) which tackle on this concept but they have many flaws, implemented by pure misunderstanding of basic principles of functional design.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:58 PM   #272
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On ledger lines, they are only smaller versions of the grand staff. If you have no issues with the grand staff, you should have no issues with ledger lines.
play it at 100 bpm





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But many people do have issues reading/writing on the grand staff because of the alternating lines/spaces of same note names.
i'm not sure what this is describing, i've never had an insurmountable problem reading typical (i.e. beginner/intermediate music book) grand staff. it just takes a little memory recall practice, after 1 week of 10 minutes per day, it should be very clear and simple. ...essentially i personally have not had the "big problem which hao staff aims to solve", and in the 1820's-1920's plenty of uneducated peasants picked up (up to intermediate level) piano quite readily from the day's typical sheet music, so.. i'm not sure where the problem is there. *note - if the staff hao first picked up had used Scientific Notation as a reference guide, C4, C5, and so on, then it might have been quite clear to him, which makes the point: there is unambiguous notation yet publishers & musicians refuse to use it.

This is essentially the type of diagram I continually referred to when learning piano and I was always frustrated that it did not simply use Scientific Notation to refer exact octave "dots" to the exact octave "keys" on the piano:



instead these diagrams are nearly always dumbed-down to use the language of "middle-C" (because they assume all beginners are stupid? or what?) rather than more correctly indicate C3, C4, C5, ....etc.. which incidentally would cross over into being usable for all instruments not only piano, because my guitar does not have "middle-C" !

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Old 08-18-2019, 02:10 PM   #273
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Maybe I am missing what your issue is with ledger lines (while being fine with bass and treble clefs). Ledger lines below the treble clef are the same as bass clef. Is it the lack of always having five ledger lines that is the issue for you?
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:35 PM   #274
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Maybe I am missing what your issue is with ledger lines (while being fine with bass and treble clefs). Ledger lines below the treble clef are the same as bass clef. Is it the lack of always having five ledger lines that is the issue for you?
refer to measures 15 and 16 of the staff i posted.
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:56 PM   #275
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instead these diagrams are nearly always dumbed-down to use the language of "middle-C" (because they assume all beginners are stupid? or what?) rather than more correctly indicate C3, C4, C5, ....etc.. which incidentally would cross over into being usable for all instruments not only piano, because my guitar does not have "middle-C" !
I guess I'm still missing your point. To me, the terrible part about the standard staff is the alternation of say 'C' on lines and spaces, whether it is on the staff or ledger lines. I don't see any dumbing down in that diagram. I only see a crap layout issue of the entire grand staff and redundancy in the ledger lines.

If your issue is lack of indication of octaves, I guess you could just add those indications. ?
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:15 PM   #276
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simply change the shape of the notehead as previously discussed, lets say for all C's, make them an x. drum tab already does this. drum notation is a new system in comparison to grand staff and made better use of modern typographical abilities.

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Old 08-18-2019, 03:31 PM   #277
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simply change the shape of the notehead as previously discussed, lets say for all C's, make them an x.
Again, I'm missing your point. How is that going to help with ledger lines?
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:58 PM   #278
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Again, I'm missing your point. How is that going to help with ledger lines?
Lines in general are so medieval - so clumsy and distracting, but... since we do not have unique names and symbols for the noteheads in standard staff, guess they are the necessary reference points... well, lines. Doing those by hand is a real pain in the butt.
This standard staff is awful to write by hand as any other notation that requires such lines or redundant clumsy elements.
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:08 PM   #279
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notehead shapes would likely resolve the problem mentioned about locating octave notes quickly. it would not fix ledger lines. i've never had a problem reading for example C4 vs. C5 regardless of their existing on alternating lines & spaces.. I just "know" what they are from visual memorization, and that's how it's done.

i don't know how to fix excessive ledger lines. (No one else in the world does either, as far as I know.) the human eye can optimally recognize only so many groups of indications rapidly. the current number of lines in a normal clef represents the best trade-off for the human eye. having a note which is 5 ledger lines below the normal treble grid is too many temporary lines, it's too awkward. the result is that the player simply memorizes that section and doesn't actually read while going along (not played-by-sight), or uses other tricks like recognizing the intervals used between the new note and previous note to make a hand-offset from the current position.

if ledger lines were simply a problem of individual notes, then a "switch octave" indicator could be added, but it's not, because there could be an octave span with multiple simultaneous notes.

changing to a different line style (or color or shading) for particular boundary lines (i.e. making the C4 use a dashed ledger line) does not help because it complicates the visual space.

grand staff is a highly dense informational system which must be commonly read at speeds of 160 bpm. it needs to be clean and clutter-free because if adding advanced expression indicators, it gets very informationally dense very fast.

what could help is a musical theory indicator above the note (perhaps as harmonic indicator). similar to what is done for finger numbering. When specific fingers should be switched to, then the number is put there. however...piano instructors love to chastise regarding helper-indicators like that -- "never use finger numbers! you'll be handicapped for life!!11!!1"

Similarly there are helpful indicators.. However, when I have added harmonic theory indicators above a phrase (for example, "Gm7" above some measure, to notate that the dots are intended to outline a G7 harmony, therefore, reading the notes can be interpreted in the context of finding & playing the notes applicable to Gm7), piano instructors will likewise chastise: "never pencil in the chords on your charts!!11! you'll be handicapped for life!!11! learn to play the dots as written! only the dots!!!"

which is pretty much the equivalent of a harmful attitude of, "macho players don't need no stinkin' added helper indicators, they play uphill both ways in the snow." egotism & narcissism at work.
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:29 PM   #280
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related to grand staff, a point of nonsense is the always-taught description of "common meter" or "common time" with the indicator "C". I wonder if anyone here knows what the "C" really, originally means. And it's not an abbreviation for "common."

All the 10,000 variations of "dummy's guide" or "easy intro piano" are simply wrong.

the bizarre thing about the complete lack of truth in the teaching is that there is seemingly no explanation for why/where/how the error started, or how the error continues to be taught. it's as if no one really cares what it really means symbolically.
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