Mono view of items to ease on eyes

[Reflected]

I would really love to see MONO view option for items.
I mean that I just want them to show as downmix mono, while they are still playing in stereo mode.
it looks good and it could really easy on my eyes in the arrangement view.

EDIT new illustration: look at the picture below, the mono view is much more clean, easy on eyes and can help a lot in the arrangement.


https://i.imgur.com/I9oBj5o.png

[Masi]

Funny, just a few days ago I thought the same. For some samples a mono mix would be easier to make out in the track overview.

Thumbs up,
Masi

[Zeno]

-1

Just NO!

[Reflected]

Originally Posted by Masi

Funny, just a few days ago I thought the same. For some samples a mono mix would be easier to make out in the track overview.

Thumbs up,
Masi

you got that right.

zeno, the idea is to have it as an option for users that need clear view of what's going on in the arrangement instead of going into small details when it's not necessary.

stereo view is something that I need when editing and not when arranging the sounds. so I will probably use single waveform view for 90% of the time in the arrangement window.

[Reflected]

look at the picture below, the mono view is much more clean, easy on eyes and can help a lot in the arrangement.

[Zeno]

Yes, I know what you mean, but...
I see it coming: N00bs will be completely confused by the difference of L+R downmix and the mono view. It will only cause problems in both directions. Stereo files will be rendered in mono by DJs, or stereofiles will be considered as monofiles thanks to the mono view and then mixed incorrectly. Most of the item sources are mono anyway (in most cases), make L+R downmix, and the case is closed.

[Masi]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Yes, I know what you mean, but...
I see it coming: N00bs will be completely confused by the difference of L+R downmix and the mono view.

It will be optional and has to be turned on. So where is the confusion?

Originally Posted by Zeno

Most of the item sources are mono anyway (in most cases), make L+R downmix, and the case is closed.

How do you know what are the most cases of other users?

Maybe not the most important feature request ever. But to voting down a feature that will not affect is considered impolite by me.

Masi

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by Masi

It will be optional and has to be turned on. So where is the confusion?

Project Sharing! Which is pretty standard these days. When a project goes through different instances, it must be clearly identifiable what the sources are.

Originally Posted by Masi

How do you know what are the most cases of other users?

I can see that in the projects I get. Either the majority consists of mono items, or there are stereo items whose source is mono.
In the rarest cases, the majority of the project consists of stereo tracks. And in these rare cases, it is up to me to convert most stereotracks into mono to integrate them into the mix...


So yeah, I do not see anything enriching in this request. If it should help anyone, I'm not in the way.
But then you have to be absolutely sure that the mono-view is recognizable as such at all times and for everyone. So that no confusion can take place!

[EvilDragon]

I agree with Zeno. -1 on this one.

[akademie]

Sorry Zeno and ED, but +1 for this one.

I can imagine that it could come with some "problems" with projects "compatibility", but it is valid workflow request in my opinion.

BTW, if you have set other samplerate for your audiocard than your recorded files are, then the situation is similar and it is solved by "i" icon on the media files, so there could be also some identification in such "mono view mode" I believe.

[Reflected]

Originally Posted by akademie

Sorry Zeno and ED, but +1 for this one.

I can imagine that it could come with some "problems" with projects "compatibility", but it is valid workflow request in my opinion.

BTW, if you have set other samplerate for your audiocard than your recorded files are, then the situation is similar and it is solved by "i" icon on the media files, so there could be also some identification in such "mono view mode" I believe.

Exactly!

[Luster]

+1 from my side

The waveform display settings already have pitfalls for noobs. I see no argument in here for -1. I can imagine this is highly genre dependent - for some it doesn't look that useful.

Another useful thing is the rectify option (classic sampler style) to maximize the info/resolution ratio.

[ivan.lt]

+1, I'd use this at times.

[ferropop]

Absolutely agree. When tracks are at their most minimized, it's almost useless looking at the Stereo waveform because it just looks like a jumble of stuff.

My vote would be that they appear Mono (IF THE OPTION IS TICKED!) and then as size permits (ie, you enlarge the track vertically) it shows the tracks in Stereo.

***just like takes! when tracks are totally collapsed you don't see the takes. Enlarge them a bit and (IF SHOW TAKES WHEN SIZE PERMITS IS ON) you see the takes***

[Reflected]

wish to see this already

hate to see so much tiny waveforms in stereo all the time.

I'm a very advanced stereo manipulator, but I never find it useful when arranging the project. it just kills my eyes. blah

[n997]

I can see how this might be useful, but also how it might be confusing.

Practical question: when stereo material is shown as single waveform lanes, how would one easily see whether the source material is stereo or mono?

Perhaps coloring for waveforms: Red for Right, Green for Left, Yellow for L+R?

[Reflected]

this should be changeable from single waveform to multi-waveform view, so if the stereo information is important for specific file or for all the files, you should be able to change the view easily.

Mixdown of the L and R gives perfect information of the Wave Timing without cluttering the arrangment view. which is perfect for arrangment and timing. which is most importnat for me for the arranement view.

the multi-waveform view for me is rarely useful, and it is more clutter than useful.

I'm advanced at the stereo manipulating stage,
usually when I need to manipulate stereo in a complex way, I actually seperate L and R to 2 tracks.

[akademie]

Hi Reflected,
few weeks ago I developed a workaround for a kind of similiar need that the user Jennifer (endorka) had.
Maybe you could learn from it and re-use/tailor the method for your specific needs (like showing only one take instead of multiple ones etc., you know)

Here is the link to my post #11 within that original thread:
Multichannel channel mode for multichannel items?

(https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...5&postcount=11)

Hope it can be useful to you eventually.

[n997]

Personally I prefer non-abstracted WYSIWYG view of multichannel tracks, so that there's no chance of confusion about channel count.
But "freedom to customize" being part of REAPER design philosophy, I can't see reason in voting against this kind of option. Many of us have far more confusing modifications in our personal REAPER configurations.



So, +1 to this, though obviously with multichannel view being default setting, and preferably with some kind of indicator of source material being multichannel when single lane waveform view is used. Colors, little icon, or even text tag, whatever.

Ideally, this would be application-level setting, so if I'm collaborating with someone who uses single-lane waveform view, I'd always see the multilane multichannel view in my REAPER setup, even as they see single-lane in theirs.


All that said, I'd stress the importance of NOT calling this "mono view", because that term is generally understood in relation to actual audio, not its visual representation.
Something like "single-lane waveform view" would be much clearer, in my opinion.

[Broojacker]

Yes, +1
There is Peak Display mode - Rectify peaks, all we need is option to invert right or left channel waveform view vertically.
Many people don’t work with mono at all. Why not give them opportunity to remove unnecessary information noise.

[Fergler]

Originally Posted by Broojacker

Yes, +1
There is Peak Display mode - Rectify peaks, all we need is option to invert right or left channel waveform view vertically.

Wow, you can still learn something new after nearly 10 years with Reaper. Where has this been all my life :O I love it!

[n997]

Originally Posted by Broojacker

There is Peak Display mode - Rectify peaks, all we need is option to invert right or left channel waveform view vertically.

That isn't the same thing though.

As far as I understand, the proper way to do single lane waveforms for multichannel audio would be to visually sum non-rectified waveforms into single lane, so that all audio data in all channels on the track is represented.

This would ensure that when editing while in single-lane view, user sees whether there is audio at any point in the source material, no matter which channel it may be in.

In other words, software would do this: 1) get peaks data per each channel, 2) sum all of them [images, not audio of course] into one lane.

[cbeckmusic]

As an fl user, this missing feature is one of the few that hold me back from using reaper more. The fact is that when you scroll out, youre missing out on half the waveform realesate on each channel, when most people dont even need to see stereo waveforms 80% of the time. Take a que from all the other major daws and add this.

As for confusion of what mode a channel is in, its easy enough to put LR, or L+R right on the TCP, and now with the latest skin, the ability to add and remove that button.

[TorlanDelta]

Hi. Yes. We need this. Just bumping to indicate that we need this. Hi. <3

[n997]

Originally Posted by cbeckmusic

As for confusion of what mode a channel is in, its easy enough to put LR, or L+R right on the TCP [...]

Not on TCP. The channel number of source audio has to be indicated on each item, because in REAPER both mono and multichannel audio items can be on same track.

[Stroudy]

+1

How about a 'mirrored' view though?

NOT mono, but Half of the waveform from L and half from R

So this...



Easier on the eye and still important info conveyed. Easy too - just an altered view of the rectified peaks

Extra points for reverting to FULL STEREO/MULTI-CHANNEL on zoom level threshold

[akademie]

Originally Posted by Stroudy

+1

How about a 'mirrored' view though?

NOT mono, but Half of the waveform from L and half from R

<imgs removed in quoted message>

Easier on the eye and still important info conveyed. Easy too - just an altered view of the rectified peaks

Extra points for reverting to FULL STEREO/MULTI-CHANNEL on zoom level threshold

And with multichannel items ????

[Buy One]

To address the naysayers concerns an icon or some other unmistakable visual sign indicating a stereo/multichannel data could be added to the item when its view is changed to single wave. No more confusion.

[akademie]

Originally Posted by Buy One

To address the naysayers concerns an icon or some other unmistakable visual sign indicating a stereo/multichannel data could be added to the item when its view is changed to single wave. No more confusion.

Well, I only pointed out that mirrored rectified waveform solution cannot cover multichannel item case. That's all.

Either we can use workarounds (my take on this is linked in post #18 earlier in this thread) to suit our needs or we can request proper visual mixed waveform view (not limited to 2 channels, of course) and with clear indication of real channel count, I think.

[Buy One]

Originally Posted by akademie

Well, I only pointed out that mirrored rectified waveform solution cannot cover multichannel item case. That's all.

My comment wasn't referring to yours, just coincidentally followed it, it was general.

[akademie]

Originally Posted by Buy One

My comment wasn't referring to yours, just coincidentally followed it, it was general.

Oh, I see. OK

[djangotsp]

+1
Lots of cool ideas here. I like the mirrored one - easy to spot differences between the channels. I'd also be happy with a "mono spectral peaks" mode where the channels get different colours, so any differences will be highlighted in the channel's colour.

We should be able to choose a separate compact display mode and a "regular" display mode, and set the track width at which it changes. This is the kind of granularity we love about Reaper.

[Stroudy]

re:multi-channel. Granted, a mono-ish view would not be possible, BUT reaper does insist on channel pairs (AFAIK), so a 4-ch wav could reasonably be displayed as 2x mirrored-mono waveforms.

Think of it like this - it's simply rectified peaks, but even channels are displayed upside-down, like in my mirrored mockup.

The aim is to be easy on the eye, without necessarily withholding information to the user

[Automatt]

+1 for that option

[Reflected]

oh how much I need this right now...

hate to see multichannel waveform view when I don't need to edit specific sound.
I just organize/build items easily without too much busy details on eyes.

[ferropop]

+1, forgot about this one. So simple and subtle, yet really important. The difference between totally relevent information, and a jumble of stuff.

[nikki5000]

+1 for larger sessions this feature would actually be necessary.

[Phazma]

I also support it, +1.

I immagine it implemented so that you have a preference (default off), which when activated collapses media on tracks with a heigth below n pixels to mono-view and gives the user an input field for specifying the mono-view track height treshold.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Phazma

I also support it, +1.

I immagine it implemented so that you have a preference (default off), which when activated collapses media on tracks with a heigth below n pixels to mono-view and gives the user an input field for specifying the mono-view track height treshold.

Perfectly stated.

[JRTaylorMusic]

Originally Posted by Stroudy

+1

How about a 'mirrored' view though?

NOT mono, but Half of the waveform from L and half from R

So this...



Easier on the eye and still important info conveyed. Easy too - just an altered view of the rectified peaks

Extra points for reverting to FULL STEREO/MULTI-CHANNEL on zoom level threshold

This is a VERY cool idea.