Old 11-06-2019, 07:15 PM   #1
worldwideweary
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Default MIDI Inline Editing CC with External MIDI files.

With [in project] midi clips, a user can edit a MIDI clip via inline editing *along with* the CC lanes while in the [Arrange view]: a useful feature; but if using external .midi files [Preferences->Media->Midi], it seems that inline editing can't be accessed. This also means that there aren't any CC controls of a .MID File clip that can be edited in the arrange view. Is there a way to enable these functionalities while maintaining .MID files rather than MIDI Items? If not, is this intended behavior by the development or merely a missing feature?
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:44 AM   #2
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You should be able to access the inline editing just the same with .mid files (e.g. with shortcut E). CC lanes can also be accessed and edited once you have dragged the dividing bar up from the bottom of the item. And if you right-click over the dividing bar/line, you'll get a menu to set and add CC lanes.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:54 AM   #3
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You should be able to access the inline editing just the same with .mid files (e.g. with shortcut E). CC lanes can also be accessed and edited once you have dragged the dividing bar up from the bottom of the item. And if you right-click over the dividing bar/line, you'll get a menu to set and add CC lanes.
Agreed that I should be able to, but I can't. The fact of this is made explicit by switching back and forth between in-project setting versus external .midi files and seeing the difference by having 'E' work and then not work. Is this not implemented but merely 'should' be? Maybe there's another setting of which I am ignorant? P.S. thanks for the right-click tip of dividing bar/line for CC lanes. It works when in-project midi is used.

Last edited by worldwideweary; 11-08-2019 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:45 PM   #4
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Is this not implemented but merely 'should' be?
It's certainly working on my end. Could you maybe post a short example file which has this problem? Doesn't have to even have any notes in there, as long as it produces the problem on your end.
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:49 PM   #5
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It's certainly working on my end. Could you maybe post a short example file which has this problem? Doesn't have to even have any notes in there, as long as it produces the problem on your end.
Sure thing. Here's a .zip including the involved blank .midi file and project .rpp.

1) Load .rpp in to Reaper
2) Click MIDI item
3) Press 'E'
4) Here it does nothing.

For a moment it was entertained that since you say it works on your end that maybe it was because Linux is being used here, yet upon verification: on Windows & different machine the fact remains: no inline editing of external midi clips have worked thus far.
Attached Files
File Type: zip no_inline.zip (1.6 KB, 9 views)
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:28 AM   #6
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Thanks for the example files. Upon further testing with several files and settings, I found out something interesting.

It seems that if Reaper is set up to import existing MIDI files as .MID file reference, the files can not be opened in inline MIDI editor if they are of Type 0 MIDI files. IOW, only MIDI files which are of Type 1 (multitrack), can be opened and edited in inline editor with that condition.

I went back to Reaper v5.0 with the same results, so if it has ever worked, it would've been even earlier. I think this requires a bug report, or if it never was a feature, feature request at least.

edit: I filed a bug report about the issue;
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....66#post2200966

Last edited by xpander; 11-09-2019 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Thanks for the example files. Upon further testing with several files and settings, I found out something interesting.

It seems that if Reaper is set up to import existing MIDI files as .MID file reference, the files can not be opened in inline MIDI editor if they are of Type 0 MIDI files. IOW, only MIDI files which are of Type 1 (multitrack), can be opened and edited in inline editor with that condition.

I went back to Reaper v5.0 with the same results, so if it has ever worked, it would've been even earlier. I think this requires a bug report, or if it never was a feature, feature request at least.

edit: I filed a bug report about the issue;
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....66#post2200966
Ok. Let it be known that on default settings, with the addition of making MIDI be of external files and not in-project: merely create a midi clip in Reaper (Ctrl drag) and it won't enter into inline editing by pressing 'E'. You said that it works for you, so I'm not sure if there's another setting I can enable to allow this to work for me. Any extra details so that I can have it work like you said?

It's noticed that a multi-track MIDI file when imported as separate tracks is automatically brought into 'in-project' despite the external setting enabled, and therefore the result of course allows inline editing since it's not external, but that's not the desired behavior. The desired behavior is to create a midi clip like with Ctrl+Drag with the external .midi file option enabled, and then utilize the inline editing ability like with 'in-project' midi.

Last edited by worldwideweary; 11-09-2019 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 11-09-2019, 02:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by worldwideweary View Post
Let it be known that on default settings, with the addition of making MIDI be of external files and not in-project: merely create a midi clip in Reaper (Ctrl drag) and it won't enter into inline editing by pressing 'E'. You said that it works for you, so I'm not sure if there's another setting I can enable to allow this to work for me. Any extra details so that I can have it work like you said?
So far I've only tested editing of imported MIDI files with the earlier given preferences (.MID files/.MID file reference). Inline editing works for them if the MIDI files are type 1. You added a good point about that working only because type 1 files are automatically converted into in-project items, regardless of import settings...I didn't pay attention to that aspect.

Now, inline editing won't work for newly created MIDI items inside Reaper either (again, with given preferences) and that could be for the same reason it won't work for the imported type 0 files. I use always in-project MIDI items insted of .mid files, so simply don't face these problems. Should I need separate .mid files, I can export them anytime. Imported type 0 files can be glued to become in-project items.

At this stage I´m not sure my bug report stands as it is...I would delete it if I could. Ironically it could read just the opposite; type 1 files working in inline editor while they shouldn't. Or more accurately, converting automatically regardless of settings, of course...

Last edited by xpander; 11-09-2019 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:28 PM   #9
worldwideweary
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Originally Posted by xpander View Post
So far I've only tested editing of imported MIDI files with the earlier given preferences (.MID files/.MID file reference). Inline editing works for them if the MIDI files are type 1. You added a good point about that working only because type 1 files are automatically converted into in-project items, regardless of import settings...I didn't pay attention to that aspect.

Now, inline editing won't work for newly created MIDI items inside Reaper either (again, with given preferences) and that could be for the same reason it won't work for the imported type 0 files. I use always in-project MIDI items insted of .mid files, so simply don't face these problems. Should I need separate .mid files, I can export them anytime. Imported type 0 files can be glued to become in-project items.

At this stage I´m not sure my bug report stands as it is...I would delete it if I could. Ironically it could read just the opposite; type 1 files working in inline editor while they shouldn't. Or more accurately, converting automatically regardless of settings, of course...
Damn, was hoping you had some special setting enabled that allowed you to do what I was attempting to do. Ah well. Maybe you can edit the bug report? Maybe it's not a bug and is on purpose since Reaper wouldn't "know" when to save to the external file, and it wouldn't want to update the midi file every time one little change occurred, as that would be too many file-writings. Juxtaposed to that is the MIDI editor where it saves when the user closes the editor (it asks to save if the preference isn't set to do so automatically at close).

External midi files has its uses, especially when interacting with a midi file that will be edited by another program while Reaper is open
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