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Old 07-27-2018, 02:27 PM   #1
TyPie
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Default How well does Native Instruments MK3 integrate with Reaper?

I am very particular about drums for some reason. I am NOT a drummer. I have, though, been blessed to have played with some really, really good ones (precise, ‘punchy’, ‘slappy’, dynamically-oriented, with CRAZY arrays of drums, cymbals, chimes, percussion, etc…) as well as noticing certain qualities and subtleties of drumming in my general listening over a long period of time. I’d rather have a living, breathing drummer, any day. For ideas, sketching, and demos, this ‘pickiness’ has led to an exhaustive search for a drum pad controller. I have asked for suggestions about drum controllers before, but I’m still looking…….. (also following the controller integration and hi-hat samples threads with great interest here….)

My priorities are: 1.) pad sensitivity (the best pad sensitivity available is priority #1; 2.) must play well with Reaper. I have nothing at all against extensive ‘setting up’, MIDI mapping, and all the typical gyrations needed to connect & configure any controller; 3.) maybe a couple of other ‘goodies’ included might be nice but not crucial, like other flexible MIDI control options / knobs / controls, sound package(s), and things like that. I’m mostly interested in traditional, classic & modern drum sounds as played on real drums & percussion (vs drum ‘machine’ sounds).

I originally narrowed my choice to the AKAI MPD series (218 and 226) for pad sensitivity, some extra sliders & knobs, as well as included sound libraries. I opted for the MPD226. I thought that this would be the perfect controller for my needs. I spent a week downloading software, setting up, & mapping to a couple of drum sets in Big Bang Drums. Great pad sensitivity (!!) But, I eventually found that it didn’t all work together well within Reaper. Seems that the older MPC software was included, but the newer software was only available as an upgrade. Just didn’t do it for me. Didn’t really enhance my setup or improve upon entering drum parts via keyboard. It was only $200 US, and I did not expect miracles or state-of-the-art processing improvements. Not sure if the newer software would have helped, but after the ‘glitchiness’, I lost interest in finding out. Reluctantly, I sent it back. Still a really nice controller though, and still could be perfect, afaic…)

The next level seems to be the Native Instruments MK3. I was not prepared to go into this price range for a controller, though this is way more than a controller, and I am reluctant to enter into the extensive NI ‘ecosystem’ (e.g., constantly spending), but if it’s THAT good, I may have to bite the bullet. I also see that there are some advanced Reaper folks who use this. I have seen posts to the effect that there is no 'deep integration' of the MK3 with Reaper. Some questions, if I may:

Does it play well within Reaper, after all the investing in the machine and setup?

(I have seen the posts from some that say the value of it is in quickly sketching ideas and transferring audio stems & MIDI into Reaper, as well as sound manipulation & tweaking --- perfect for me.). Does it work well as a plug-in?

Will it really enhance my MIDI keyboard – Reaper home setup?

How is it living in the Native Instruments ‘world’ / eco-system?
Many companies want customers to be locked in. They (NI) seem as if they are technologically advanced, but there seems to be a lot of yelling & screaming on the NI forums about failing to fulfill promises of ‘soon-to-be-released’ features & improvements. (Not at all unusual....) I also realize that integration (compatibility) is the main issue with various controllers with more extensive features. (It helps if the software needed to operate / enhance the equipment and its features is well-supported.) Just what am I getting myself into with NI?

What are the limitations / negatives / CONS of the MK3?

What does it NOT do (that it probably *should* do in this price range, and being ‘married’ to the company? What deep integration does it lack?).

Wait for holiday / Labor Day / Christmas sales on equipment coming up in the not too distant, along with new releases? Does NI have a history of discounting equipment / sale pricing as they do with their sound packages?

Thanks much in advance! All comments welcome and much appreciated.

Last edited by TyPie; 07-29-2018 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:22 PM   #2
ChristopherT
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Are you talking about Maschine MKIII ?

All works fantastic here, amazing pads for playing.
No cons at all
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by TyPie View Post
I originally narrowed my choice to the AKAI MPD series (218 and 226) for pad sensitivity, some extra sliders & knobs, as well as included sound libraries. I opted for the MPD226. I thought that this would be the perfect controller for my needs.
I have the 218 based on a forum member's recommendation (EricTBone) - it is great but I saw a video where the MK3 did better so I picked one of those up a couple weeks later.

Quote:
Does it play well within Reaper, after all the investing in the machine and setup?
In which way? Here are my overall thoughts.

1. It has it's own software that can do it's own thing, including loading your VST library outside of Reaper.

2. It can do #1 inside of Reaper as a VSTi where it has it's own timeline/groups/scenes/patterns but follows Reaper's transport.

3. It can function just as a dumb controller so to speak, minus the Maschine software such as controlling some random drum VSTi. Additionally, pretty much any knob or button can be "learned" in Reaper in this mode.

Beyond the pads being great it might be considered overkill to use as only a controller but I do use it that way in addition to the other methods. I also use it some outside of Reaper with Maschine software and/or in reaper with Maschine as a VST - in that regard, it's possibilities justify the price in every way IMHO especially if you already have Kontakt which I did.

On a side note it comes with a controller editor so you can edit pad assignments, names, colors etc. which I have found quite handy because I wanted to set up a few different pad mappings for different things. Overall, I'm calling it a very worthwhile purchase but for your needs you may need to be more specific about what you are concerned it won't do well.

On another side note... Until the firmware is up to date and the driver installed properly, when you power it up, you get nothing, nada, just a welcome screen. That threw me early on and made me think it was broken, this is true even if you just want to use it as a standalone "dumb" controller just as an FYI. I agree with the OP, the pads are fantastic and something as simple as being able to color code them is extremely helpful.

I may be in a similar situation as you, I'm somewhat picky about drums and I don't use canned patterns and I don't quantize most of the time - typically I want to play them myself with my own interpretation of the feel and need pads that can keep up. So far, the MK3 pads are better than I am so that's good.
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Last edited by karbomusic; 07-27-2018 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ChristopherT View Post
Are you talking about Maschine MKIII ?

All works fantastic here, amazing pads for playing.
No cons at all
Yes. Maschine MK3. Thank you. Any details? Anything to be aware of?
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I have the 218 based on a forum member's recommendation (EricTBone) - it is great but I saw a video where the MK3 did better so I picked one of those up a couple weeks later.



In which way? Here are my overall thoughts.

1. It has it's own software that can do it's own thing, including loading your VST library outside of Reaper.

2. It can do #1 inside of Reaper as a VSTi where it has it's own timeline/groups/scenes/patterns but follows Reaper's transport.

3. It can function just as a dumb controller so to speak, minus the Maschine software such as controlling some random drum VSTi. Additionally, pretty much any knob or button can be "learned" in Reaper in this mode.

Beyond the pads being great it might be considered overkill to use as only a controller but I do use it that way in addition to the other methods. I also use it some outside of Reaper with Maschine software and/or in reaper with Maschine as a VST - in that regard, it's possibilities justify the price in every way IMHO especially if you already have Kontakt which I did.

On a side note it comes with a controller editor so you can edit pad assignments, names, colors etc. which I have found quite handy because I wanted to set up a few different pad mappings for different things. Overall, I'm calling it a very worthwhile purchase but for your needs you may need to be more specific about what you are concerned it won't do well.

On another side note... Until the firmware is up to date and the driver installed properly, when you power it up, you get nothing, nada, just a welcome screen. That threw me early on and made me think it was broken, this is true even if you just want to use it as a standalone "dumb" controller just as an FYI. I agree with the OP, the pads are fantastic and something as simple as being able to color code them is extremely helpful.

I may be in a similar situation as you, I'm somewhat picky about drums and I don't use canned patterns and I don't quantize most of the time - typically I want to play them myself with my own interpretation of the feel and need pads that can keep up. So far, the MK3 pads are better than I am so that's good.

THANK YOU karbomusic! Couple of questions regarding #2 above:

When using as a VSTi in Reaper, can the maschine software follow Reaper's timeline and song 'form', or is the form limited in some way? (In, say, a song in the form AABA that repeats a second time, or a through-composed piece, by 'form', I mean length, number of measures, patterns (damn, I hope I'm asking in the right way...). OR, when in Maschine using Maschine software, are there limits to the form, length (of 'pattern', no. of measures)?

Lastly, for further editing and mixing, Is it easy enough to get audio & midi tracks from Maschine into Reaper?


Much obliged!
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyPie View Post
THANK YOU karbomusic! Couple of questions regarding #2 above:

When using as a VSTi in Reaper, can the maschine software follow Reaper's timeline and song 'form', or is the form limited in some way? (In, say, a song in the form AABA that repeats a second time, or a through-composed piece, by 'form', I mean length, number of measures, patterns (damn, I hope I'm asking in the right way...). OR, when in Maschine using Maschine software, are there limits to the form, length (of 'pattern', no. of measures)?

Lastly, for further editing and mixing, Is it easy enough to get audio & midi tracks from Maschine into Reaper?


Much obliged!
Using machine software as a VSTi means it's internal timelines loop within reaper - in general it's geared more towards loops and patterns aka Scenes as they call them. So it depends on how you use it, meaning if you are just running 4/8/16 bar loops or something they should repeat if reaper plays 32 bars for example. If you have taken those various loops and constructed a full length song in the VSTi then it will be as long as the "song" in reaper I that is the intention. I suppose I could demo it real quick.

On the exporting midi, I think it depends. I think you can route midi data out of Maschine and record that as MIDI in reaper if you needed (don't see the point though). And I think there is a way to export midi from the standalone but I've been busy the last couple weeks and have forgotten.
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:34 PM   #7
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Does this help?

https://youtu.be/ISGiqtxnOoU

On a side note, that "project" inside of Maschine could have been composed/recorded either as standalone or reaper. For example if you wanted to run the Maschine standalone software for an afternoon and work on just that, you can save it as a machine project, then when in Reaper, you can load Maschine as a VSTi and from within it load up that same project. In the video that's what I had done, the music in Maschine I made outside of reaper but I could have as easily done it inside of reaper in other words they are interchangeable since in both cases Maschine is simply working with it's own project.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:42 PM   #8
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A great plus for me is having 16 samples / audio files, and drag and drop instant allocation to pads.

Grouping sets is simple, saving is easy.
I have had a MKI for many years, and now very happy to have upgraded to a MKIII

Its fast to use, intuitive, and really cannot fault it - especially as I am a heavy Kontakt library user, plus make my own personal custom libraries, but still have many frustrations with it: many things give me the shits with Kontakt. It desperately needs a BIG overhaul.

Maschine is a well thought out enjoyable playing surface, and the software is pretty much faultless IMO.
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherT View Post
A great plus for me is having 16 samples / audio files, and drag and drop instant allocation to pads.

Grouping sets is simple, saving is easy.
I have had a MKI for many years, and now very happy to have upgraded to a MKIII

Its fast to use, intuitive, and really cannot fault it - especially as I am a heavy Kontakt library user, plus make my own personal custom libraries, but still have many frustrations with it: many things give me the shits with Kontakt. It desperately needs a BIG overhaul.

Maschine is a well thought out enjoyable playing surface, and the software is pretty much faultless IMO.
ChristopherT,
Thanks for your input! Sounds like a rave review to me. (Hahahaa--I don't think I ever saw the word 'faultless' in a sentence with anything related to gear!)

Much appreciated!
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Using machine software as a VSTi means it's internal timelines loop within reaper - in general it's geared more towards loops and patterns aka Scenes as they call them. So it depends on how you use it, meaning if you are just running 4/8/16 bar loops or something they should repeat if reaper plays 32 bars for example. If you have taken those various loops and constructed a full length song in the VSTi then it will be as long as the "song" in reaper I that is the intention. I suppose I could demo it real quick.

On the exporting midi, I think it depends. I think you can route midi data out of Maschine and record that as MIDI in reaper if you needed (don't see the point though). And I think there is a way to export midi from the standalone but I've been busy the last couple weeks and have forgotten.
KarboMusic,
Thanks much for the time taken for your detailed feedback and demo! YES! I see exactly what you are doing there.... in effect, sequencer inside a sequencer! ('Nested' software sequencers....hmmmm…. sequencer inside a sequencer inside a sequencer coming next? Plugs inside of plugs inside of plugs, etc. Damn fun, I say, even tho it's all starting to blow my mind, heheheh).

I shall return these favors as soon as Im able!

BTW, very cool music! I took a listen to your tunes
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:09 PM   #11
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KarboMusic,
Thanks much for the time taken for your detailed feedback and demo! YES! I see exactly what you are doing there.... in effect, sequencer inside a sequencer! ('Nested' software sequencers....hmmmm…. sequencer inside a sequencer inside a sequencer coming next? Plugs inside of plugs inside of plugs, etc. Damn fun, I say, even tho it's all starting to blow my mind, heheheh).

I shall return these favors as soon as Im able!

BTW, very cool music! I took a listen to your tunes
Ah yes, sequencer within a sequencer, I should have used that wording. Thanks for the listen.
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Old 10-23-2019, 03:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Does this help?

https://youtu.be/ISGiqtxnOoU

On a side note, that "project" inside of Maschine could have been composed/recorded either as standalone or reaper. For example if you wanted to run the Maschine standalone software for an afternoon and work on just that, you can save it as a machine project, then when in Reaper, you can load Maschine as a VSTi and from within it load up that same project. In the video that's what I had done, the music in Maschine I made outside of reaper but I could have as easily done it inside of reaper in other words they are interchangeable since in both cases Maschine is simply working with it's own project.
The video that you made is not available anymore. I've been interested in what you were going to show as I'm interested in getting a Mikro mk3. Can you repost the video please?
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:13 AM   #13
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The video that you made is not available anymore. I've been interested in what you were going to show as I'm interested in getting a Mikro mk3. Can you repost the video please?
I must have deleted and not realized it. All I had done if I remember was load maschine as a VST on a track which gives you Maschine's loop timeline inside Reapers. I'll see if I can recreate later but that is all it is.
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