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Old 09-04-2018, 06:42 AM   #41
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And may the Lord help you if you had comps done already, you did a punch-in to a take, and the take you need to shift was recorded over a split. Now you're really in trouble. Slip editing won't save you in this case even if it was appropriate.
Note that for S1 promoting latest take seems to be default as well,
so, you got to know what you're doing.
In Reaper, I'd
1 and/or 2:
1) Save comp
2) Select just what I'm sure I'll not use, and rec-mode "selected items"
Optionally record on a new track. (But, yeah, implode sucks a little here)
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:38 AM   #42
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I understand what you're saying in how you avoid this issue, but you're missing a key component here, and I assume that's my fault for not communicating it clearly.

Sometimes it's necessary to move takes around to adjust the timing before evaluating the quality.

So maybe there's a take that sounds nearly perfect. The singer hit the note, the drummer hit the snare right, the bassist didn't fall over in his chair, etc... BUT the timing is just slightly off.

In order to properly evaluate that potentially perfect take against all others in that take stack, it needs to be time shifted. Then I can check and make sure it actually fits inside the track. Then I can start comping.

And may the Lord help you if you had comps done already, you did a punch-in to a take, and the take you need to shift was recorded over a split. Now you're really in trouble. Slip editing won't save you in this case even if it was appropriate.

Yes, I understand that there's workarounds, but they are all extra work, require you to settle for a non-optimal result or are a source of errors immediately or down the line. Neither of those things are something that's acceptable in a working studio.

Edit: It looks like you may changed the screenshot to png instead of gif but the problem was that images that are 3600 pixels wide are sort of silly on web pages LOL.


I think that currently it should look ok? I adjusted some sizes.
I got it earlier, I explicitly mentioned "I understand that is just one example" and my point was that it is still relatively nitpicky and not worthy of the sucks description. I do regularly work within the confines of the restriction you are describing regardless of example used. As an aside, I think you are asking for something regarding #10 that will never be realized as it is outside a core part of Reaper concerning items and splits.

My bigger point is that people are getting the job done without all the extra work you describe in such scenarios as #10 - that should be recognized and I must also say, just to pick on you and others, the take system doesn't suck - it needs some valid tweaks, it is different than some are willing to learn - others demand it must follow their assumptions.... but it doesn't suck, I and others heavy users have completed enough large/complex projects to show this is the case.

I had sort of promised myself to stay out of these takes threads moving forward, I don't experience the pain you guys do with like complexity, but inevitably someone will embellish and try to sell it as a completely broken system and that is inaccurate and I feel compelled to give what's right and wrong with it a fair shake.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:42 AM   #43
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Perhaps something to consider is that the idea of a 'comp system' or 'take system' is redundant and makes for extra work now that we 1. no longer have limits to number of tracks and 2. are no longer dealing with analog generational issues copying or duplicating tracks. I think that's what some of us are trying to suggest.

The thing you need to drag yourself kicking and screaming away from is trying to do everything in the same track! If you use the recording track(s) as a "recording bin" and never monitor this live, everything becomes simple. You either monitor the live input through your audio interface integrated mixer in the first place (for latency issues) and the recording bin track is muted anyway or you make a dedicated monitor track (separate from the recording bin track which stays muted) to monitor live through the low latency set system.

The workflow trick is to start building your arrangement tracks as you work. You want to end up with final mix tracks at the end of the day anyway (eg. vox, harmony vox, harmony 2 vox, etc). Build them as you record them and start monitoring directly from them. Fly parts from the recording bin to the arrangement tracks as you please. You can change your mind and grab an alternate as you will.

So that's the basic SOP of "DAW style" recording way back since before there were dedicated comp/take features. Reaper significantly improved on this with track lanes where the recorded items stack up in lanes as you record new takes (vs. Protools for example where you had to make a new playlist for every new take). Just that one improvement is huge actually.

Some of the concepts in the comp feature are compelling. The click on the take you want to monitor and all the others stay muted by default looks slick in a way. But it takes extra steps to use. You need to monitor that recording bin track now every time you play back and want to use the comp feature. Or you'd need to do that in every arrangement track! I have no doubt that some people have developed a workflow around this that has some pros to it but it sure seems like a lot of extra work for something that just isn't relevant in a system with unlimited tracks and unrestricted routing.

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion who uses and loves the feature. If it works for you, you're not wrong! Just a comment on why it probably will never be tinkered with.


Regarding multitrack workflow:
You have to realize that Reaper is selection based. Grouping features do NOT tie tracks together to make them receive the same commends. The selection does that! The grouping features are there to aid in making a quick selection of tracks you want to work together. Once you realize that, working with multitrack is literally the same as working with a single track. Edit on one and the rest follow. You could even hide them if you wish to avoid visual clutter.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:45 AM   #44
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Perhaps something to consider is that the idea of a 'comp system' or 'take system' is redundant and makes for extra work now that we 1. no longer have limits to number of tracks and 2. are no longer dealing with analog generational issues copying or duplicating tracks. I think that's what some of us are trying to suggest.
We discussed this before, using multiple tracks for what we do with takes/comps would be potentially silly, more work and very 1998. There should really be little debate about that. I have no idea why you keep trying to relate takes to analog - that's nothing to do with it. It's actually quite the opposite, takes are far more modern than antiquated multiple tracks
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:46 AM   #45
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I don't think that any software should rely so heavily on workarounds for such a core feature.
This should be considered a fundamental principle in software design. Can we engrave it somewhere, please?


Issue #11.1: Trying to use an existing item (from another song section, for example) as a new take can be frustrating and time-consuming.

Issue #19: There's no visual indicator for the take lock state, and no way (?) to have them locked by default. When I do use the them, I lock the takes immediately and use keyboard shortcuts for switching, because clicking is just too error-prone for me.

My usual workaround is avoiding the take system entirely and using new children tracks as "lanes" inside a "real track" folder. It can require a lot of mute-unmute actions but at least I maintain most of my sanity. When I'm done I copy my comps to the folder track and mute+hide the "lanes" so they're out of the way but I can still go back to them if I need to.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:52 AM   #46
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We discussed this before, using multiple tracks for what we do with takes/comps would be potentially silly, more work and very 1998. There should really be little debate about that. I have no idea why you keep trying to relate takes to analog - that's nothing to do with it.
Yeah, we're just going to have to agree to disagree!
I see much less work and a simple straightforward workflow here. Obviously you do too on your end.

Monitoring all kinds of things in from the same track... Making "tape monitor" routing switch back and forth at "punch" points... Gah!

Yeah you know, someone got something right in 1998. And it's not broke!
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:53 AM   #47
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Issue #19: There's no visual indicator for the take lock state, and no way (?) to have them locked by default. When I do use the them, I lock the takes immediately and use keyboard shortcuts for switching, because clicking is just too error-prone for me.
It's really better to collapse them IMHO which solves all the accidental clicking issues, is cleaner, less error prone and more efficient. I don't know how you guys work with them expanded (yuk) - I'd also prefer they fix the lock state so that SHIFT+T and T are also disabled along with your idea of showing the take lock state.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:59 AM   #48
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Yeah, we're just going to have to agree to disagree!
I see much less work and a simple straightforward workflow here. Obviously you do too on your end.
I came from using multiple DAW tracks for takes in 1998 beginning with Logic, it is terrible in comparison. If you could provide an example (possibly in it's own thread) of tracking 48 tracks, with multiple takes each, including 12 tracks of live drums with multiple takes of those + the remaining tracks of overdubs done at different times also with lets say 3-20 takes each, all chopped up at different times per take across the timeline (aka lots of spits per item), all of that handled with new take = new track… I'd be interested in seeing how it could even remotely compete.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:01 AM   #49
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The wide image is fixed, yay and THANK YOU!!
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:08 AM   #50
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I came from using multiple DAW tracks for takes in 1998 beginning with Logic, it is terrible in comparison. If you could provide an example (possibly in it's own thread) of tracking 48 tracks, with multiple takes each, including 12 tracks of live drums with multiple takes of those + the remaining tracks of overdubs done at different times also with lets say 3-20 takes each, all chopped up at different times per take across the timeline (aka lots of spits per item), all of that handled with new take = new track… I'd be interested in seeing how it could even remotely compete.
If I was flying multitrack drum takes between recording bin and arrangement like that, I'd make a shortcut for flying up/down by 12 tracks with a single key stab. I would still never start making new tracks for new takes. I'd fly them to the final arrangement tracks as I described. (I'd have multiple sets for the drums if there was to be two instances of drums in parts of the mix or if there was some tricky cross-fading to do between some takes for some reason.


I think a few people are trying to suggest keeping it simple like that and keeping the new recorded item takes stacking up in lanes as Reaper does and adding some of the compelling comp features to THAT. Seems like a reasonable request (or at least it does without digging into the nuts and bolts and if you're already into this kind of workflow).

I'm not trying to modify your opinions or workflow, but that's how I'd handle that.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:24 AM   #51
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My bigger point is that people are getting the job done without all the extra work you describe in such scenarios as #10 - that should be recognized and I must also say, just to pick on you and others, the take system doesn't suck - it needs some valid tweaks, it is different than some are willing to learn - others demand it must follow their assumptions.... but it doesn't suck, I and others heavy users have completed enough large/complex projects to show this is the case.

I had sort of promised myself to stay out of these takes threads moving forward, I don't experience the pain you guys do with like complexity, but inevitably someone will embellish and try to sell it as a completely broken system and that is inaccurate and I feel compelled to give what's right and wrong with it a fair shake.
I don't think that some people being able to use a system effectively is evidence of any sort of quality.

With sufficient effort and limited needs, it's sometimes possible to not only use faulty software, but use faulty software that's not even the correct software for the job.

My intention is to point out the friction and the limitations that Reaper puts in place with its current system.

There's the old phrase of "It gives you enough rope to hang yourself", which has become a design philosophy in some software. I LOVE that Reaper allows this.

HOWEVER. I feel that Reaper's take system doesn't just give you enough rope. It ties the noose around your neck and sends you off a cliff. Some users don't go deep enough for the noose to matter, but some folks are are dead before they can reach the depth they need.

I now apologize for my terrible metaphor.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:32 AM   #52
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I think a few people are trying to suggest keeping it simple like that and keeping the new recorded item takes stacking up in lanes as Reaper does and adding some of the compelling comp features to THAT.
I have no problem improving the workflow annoyances here and there, I have some of my own but many of the complaints I see (not necessarily in this thread) are often not a broken takes system.

Myself and plenty of others I know whom work on large projects, sometimes involving multiple thousands of dollars, get the same job done with little frustration - that wouldn't be possible if it "sucks" so badly. So fix annoyances as they do exist, but presenting it as terrible, sucks or completely broken and warranting a complete redesign is inaccurate. IMHO, I tend to see a lot of X/Y problems presented concerning takes which is often a clue.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:48 AM   #53
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I don't think that some people being able to use a system effectively is evidence of any sort of quality.

With sufficient effort and limited needs, it's sometimes possible to not only use faulty software, but use faulty software that's not even the correct software for the job.
I tried pretty hard to demonstrate it isn't a case of ^that at all and I don't believe for one second that the majority of the user base is as hogtied as you guys present - can't prove it but I'm fairly damn confident. I'm not dissing your list at all, it has some worthwhile annoyances but there are also people successfully completing complex projects who are doing so as fast as you wish you were - I'm also pretty confident of that since I'm one of them and know a few who are - I say few because that's all I communicate with, not because more don't exist.

Quote:
HOWEVER. I feel that Reaper's take system doesn't just give you enough rope. It ties the noose around your neck and sends you off a cliff. Some users don't go deep enough for the noose to matter, but some folks are are dead before they can reach the depth they need.

I now apologize for my terrible metaphor.
You should apologize for it and the embellishment it contains I didn't start posting as hardline as I do until I had to "go deep" and after I fully learned the system - the scenario I presented aligns with actual projects I do containing +100 tracks at times with lots of chopped up takes of real performers. I'm fine with fixing annoyances but the embellishment really drives me nuts because it is embellishment. How can you expect someone like Justin to take us seriously if we do that?

I'll try to leave you guys alone for a bit, or I'm going to ruin you guys thread.
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Old 09-04-2018, 03:34 PM   #54
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Wow - this whole Reaper take workflow is an overly complex clunky "feature"
Glad I have never attempted to use it

Just give us a ProTools playlist style workflow.
It is simple, it works.
Now knowing how this operates in Reaper, I will definitely use Protools when needing to do big complex tracking with various takes.

But most of the time I am doing simple overdubbing, and I just use the multitrack method of always recording onto one track, and moving and arranging the files in tracks below. < It works.
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:15 PM   #55
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Wow - this whole Reaper take workflow is an overly complex clunky "feature"
Glad I have never attempted to use it

Just give us a ProTools playlist style workflow.
It is simple, it works.
Now knowing how this operates in Reaper, I will definitely use Protools when needing to do big complex tracking with various takes.

But most of the time I am doing simple overdubbing, and I just use the multitrack method of always recording onto one track, and moving and arranging the files in tracks below. < It works.
I don't think that's terribly fair. You should give Reaper a shot to try the take workflow.

If you think it's bad still, then please share your ideas with the forum and developers. If you think it's good, then say what about it is nicer than PT.

That's how things improve.
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:38 PM   #56
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Ah, the take system. I think I posted some frustrations as well when I first started Reaper. I have experienced all of your issues for sure and appreciate the organization and thoughtfulness in the OP. The take system seems to be one of the few things in Reaper that is NOT customizable to your liking. So, you just have to work with it. Meaning, you have to plan your recordings in this mindset. It really is very efficient if you learn some things from the experts here (thanks karbo). I used to multitrack, which is great and straight forward wysiwig. But the take system can be very swift if you can shortcut and keystroke well enough. Now instead of having say, 5 vocal tracks of takes to demo, arrange, zoom in/out pan left/right, rename, mute/solo, delete, etc....I just do my punch in, zoom, move the crossfade, maybe press T on a small item.... done...on to the next....and all in that one track. Saves time and view space and CPU resources.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:16 PM   #57
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I think you've done a good job of presenting your concerns with the "Take System" Robert, you've obviously had quite a bit of experience with it. Personaly
I've never used a take system other then Reaper's, so I have no experience beyond that and consequently I'm not sure what to expect.

ED and others have indicated there are a lot of videos out about it. However, I've never run across any, and I really wouldn't even know what search words
to use to try finding them. G-Sun did post a link, does anyone have any other links they could share?
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:49 PM   #58
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I think you've done a good job of presenting your concerns with the "Take System" Robert, you've obviously had quite a bit of experience with it. Personaly
I've never used a take system other then Reaper's, so I have no experience beyond that and consequently I'm not sure what to expect.

ED and others have indicated there are a lot of videos out about it. However, I've never run across any, and I really wouldn't even know what search words
to use to try finding them. G-Sun did post a link, does anyone have any other links they could share?
Hop on youtube and search for "(Daw Name) Comping" where (Daw Name) is the name of the daw. Like "Digital Performer Comping". I don't want to link any of those here and encourage a "Reaper should do it like..." type discussion.

Studio One, Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, Cakewalk, Samplitude all have excellent comping systems.

I don't want to in any way imply that these other DAWs have perfect systems. They all have their own issues, but in my experience (and I have a lot of experience with all of these products), they have fewer issues than Reaper and/or offer a more seamless experience relative to the rest of the product's workflow.

That said... I think Reaper can easily surpass the competition by extending what already exists. There's no need for Reaper to copy any other system, but instead it just needs some issues addressed.
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #59
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Now what do I have? A huge mess of split items with varying empty lanes, take numbers that don't align.
What about:
1) Record in normal mode, using free item positioning, into item lanes (as in your proposed solution).
2) Select them all and run "Fit items to time selection, padding with silence if necessary"
3) "Implode items one same track into takes".

Now everything is in one item, each take in its own lane, and without splits.


EDIT: Empty space and empty takes can cause all kinds of misalignments. It may help to always use "padding with silence" before any imploding, and mute unused takes rather than delete.

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Old 09-05-2018, 01:54 PM   #60
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Amen. I agree with all of what the OP said and probably even have a few more gripes to add. Hopefully this stuff gets addressed in the not-to-distant future. This is really the only major issue that I have to warn people about when recommending they check out Reaper.

Sadly, I don't think there is much incentive on the dev's part to put some time into this area. There are plenty of users that don't use this type of functionality and don't care.

Cockos doesn't respond to complaints the same way other companies might so I would probably just accept it for what it is. That's not to say that there won't be any improvements, but seeing as this has been on ongoing issue for a long time, I wouldn't hold your breath. If this is causing you serious headaches, than I would seriously consider switching to another DAW for those projects that require a more sane take system. I made the decision at some point that I would just use Logic for those types of projects as it has both a item/region based take system as well as a PT-like playlist system so you can get the best of both worlds.
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:14 PM   #61
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What about:
1) Record in normal mode, using free item positioning, into item lanes (as in your proposed solution).
2) Select them all and run "Fit items to time selection, padding with silence if necessary"
3) "Implode items one same track into takes".

Now everything is in one item, each take in its own lane, and without splits.
I do something similar and it works out well for the way I usually record. I have been doing such not in Free Item Position Mode but with these options on:

Options: New recording creates new media items in separate lanes (layers)
Options: Show overlapping media items in lanes
Options: Loop recording always adds takes to newly recorded items (except in track free item positioning mode)

This action can be helpful after imploding:
SWS: Set takes in selected item(s) to random custom color(s)

Step 2 above,
before running
Item: Fit items to time selection, padding with silence if needed
you may need to do
Time selection: Set time selection to items

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Old 09-05-2018, 06:09 PM   #62
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I don't mess with takes much, so I have little if anything to offer to the conversation.

I do want to commend the OP and the responses so far. This should be a standard for how to write a constructive thread with meaningful observations (i.e. not just opinions and griping).
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:19 PM   #63
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That is an excellent annotation !

... If only the thread header would not read "....sucks..." but "... experience report on ..."

-Michael
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:44 PM   #64
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Ok, so I only have a few minutes here. Hopefully this awful example can communicate the issue.

The issue presented is that of quality vs timing.

[...]

Take 4 sounds great to me, but the timing is WAY off. So my only resort is to slip edit it. (Assume that all other takes have good timing, even though they don't)

However, in doing so, the next 'hit' is pulled forward. To fix this I need to pull the butt-splice forward to cover that up.

Here's where the issue lies: I can no longer accurately listen to the other takes, as they have had their decay covered up by the butt splice.

If this was something like a cymbal crash, I would have to ruin 4 potentially OK takes simply to try and audition one quality take that was out of time. Trying to now switch between all 5 is not possible.

I know the video is kinda garbage, but it's a quickie to try and demonstrate the issue. I can do a proper video tomorrow if this is not sufficient.
Ideally, how should this work?

This might call for stretch markers, rather than just slip editing.

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Old 09-06-2018, 12:41 AM   #65
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FWIW, when I record my band I always record each take into new items on separate lanes, and when done I implode them into takes. I don't know if I've missed something, but I wish there was an option to insert silence instead of looping the media items when importing to takes though.

To me this is the only sane way I've found of working, as the splitting into separate items drove me crazy, and helped me fsck up the editing many times

Edit: But this also isn't a magical bullet and has a few issues of it's own depending on what and how you are doing it Changing Item settings->loop section of item source, does insert silence when imploding to takes.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:43 AM   #66
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But this feels like a bug

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Old 09-06-2018, 07:21 AM   #67
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Ideally, how should this work?

This might call for stretch markers, rather than just slip editing.
How this should work is that you can move takes irrespective of the item.

Having takes locked to item boundaries does not jive with the fact that takes are different performances and make require different editing before they can be auditioned equally.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:24 AM   #68
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TIf only the thread header would not read "....sucks..." but "... experience report on ..."
i agree with Michael! i am not into this subject, but i agree that a more positive title would probably better.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:24 AM   #69
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But this feels like a bug

Implode seems rather buggy in general. There's a handful of bugs that make it frustrating to use.

I'm not sure how you get by with using lanes->takes because my experiences have been that this is a good way to end up with takes that are all over the place. I listed what I feel is the most problematic issue in my original posts.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:50 AM   #70
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How this should work is that you can move takes irrespective of the item.

Having takes locked to item boundaries does not jive with the fact that takes are different performances and make require different editing before they can be auditioned equally.
This is my main and really only complaint with the take system.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:01 AM   #71
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I'm not sure how you get by with using lanes->takes because my experiences have been that this is a good way to end up with takes that are all over the place. I listed what I feel is the most problematic issue in my original posts.
Imploding can indeed be quite finicky. However, as long as you use "padding with silence", and check that everything aligns nicely before imploding, there should not be any problems.

I would also recommend avoiding empty takes, since they can cause all kinds of misalignments. It may help to mute unwanted takes rather than delete.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:04 AM   #72
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I would also recommend avoiding empty takes, since they can cause all kinds of misalignments. It may help to mute unwanted takes rather than delete.
You can delete them so long as you show empty take lanes to keep the alignment (this was a major improvement somewhere early V4). I never use them non-collapsed though (IMHO it's inflicting self pain that doesn't need to exist) but options exist so this alignment issue never occurs.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:08 AM   #73
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How this should work is that you can move takes irrespective of the item.
I do not quite understand? (Do you mean move the edges so that the takes don't all have the same start time or length?)
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:14 AM   #74
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I do not quite understand? (Do you mean move the edges so that the takes don't all have the same start time or length?)
He may mean this...

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=20

But for the life of me, this has never been an issue for me, I just haven't had time to open a project and figure out why - I just know it isn't and I do know I'm in similar situations all the time and don't remember getting stuck at all.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:20 AM   #75
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Yes, he means that.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:26 AM   #76
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You can delete them so long as you show empty take lanes to keep the alignment (this was a major improvement somewhere early V4). I never use them non-collapsed though (IMHO it's inflicting self pain that doesn't need to exist) but options exist so this alignment issue never occurs.
"Show empty take lanes" is indeed a useful option, but will only work as long as the takes are kept in one item. If the takes are exploded (as Robert did in one of the examples), the empty takes will become holes that (AFAIK) cannot easily be imploded again.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:28 AM   #77
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"Show empty take lanes" is indeed a useful option, but will only work as long as the takes are kept in one item. If the takes are exploded (as Robert did in one of the examples), the empty takes will become holes that (AFAIK) cannot easily be imploded again.
Ah gotcha, exploded is one of the ones I've never needed - maybe in some rare corner case IIRC.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:04 AM   #78
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This is the post which I first replied to, since I didn't understand how the problem relates to REAPER's take system, or how Robert would ideally prefer the slip editing to work at the right edge of the take (should silence be inserted?).


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Having takes locked to item boundaries does not jive with the fact that takes are different performances and make require different editing before they can be auditioned equally.
REAPER has some nifty features for take-specific editing, particularly take FX, take envelopes and stretch markers. In the GIF above, for example, the extraneous hit that appeared at the right edge of the take can be silenced with the mute or volume envelope, without having to pull the right edge forward; or the decay of the main hit can be stretched up to the edge with stretch markers.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:17 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
This is the post which I first replied to, since I didn't understand how the problem relates to REAPER's take system, or how Robert would ideally prefer the slip editing to work at the right edge of the take (should silence be inserted?).
My take on it (pun intended) is that problem doesn't need to be solved with takes that live inside items. Which brings up an even more important point, if someone has workflow issues related to splits, stop asking to change item-based takes which are designed with splits as part of their core design and instead...

Use that time to enhance the other types of takes aka takes in separate lanes and FIPM; IMHO asking for changes/improvements/tweaks to those is far more productive (because they exist for those who don't like splits) than trying to redesign item/take containers.
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:23 PM   #80
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But for the life of me, this has never been an issue for me, I just haven't had time to open a project and figure out why - I just know it isn't and I do know I'm in similar situations all the time and don't remember getting stuck at all.
Karbo, do you mean that in the course of recording a number of takes with the take system, you never have any starts or ends that are off and don't quite line up with the others?

I run into this all the time, not only with my own playing, but with most of my clients as well. Ha ha, it might indicate my timing sucks. Actually though, it's mostly just playing with different feels And I usually end up wanting to cut and shift each pass differently. As I mentioned above, this is the only real complaint I've got with the take system.

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REAPER has some nifty features for take-specific editing, particularly take FX, take envelopes and stretch markers. In the GIF above, for example, the extraneous hit that appeared at the right edge of the take can be silenced with the mute or volume envelope, without having to pull the right edge forward; or the decay of the main hit can be stretched up to the edge with stretch markers.
Julian, are you talking about after the multi take item has been exploded?
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