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12-12-2011, 09:45 PM
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#41
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
I found a problem here:
None of those entries with key bindings are working.
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Got it, will be fixed for test3.
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12-12-2011, 09:46 PM
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#42
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
a new build (test2) is up and should do some modest size adjustments when possible, automatically. In places where there is no room, there's little that can be done, though... Until we make all of our dialogs larger.
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Thanks, Justin. I guess this must be real hard for you because there's no way to know how much space would REAPER need in each dialog/window/etc. I'm working on it right now a bit before going to bed (I'm close to a 25% of it and I've been doing it at least 3 hours per day lol). I'll check this new test2 build right away.
I also noticed we have new langpacks with all the stuff we were missing in test1. How am I supposed to continue my work now? hahaha I guess I need to figure something out to "merge" langpack versions.
[EDIT] Holy cow! These new langpacks are huge! haha this will take months
[EDIT2] hmmm I was wrong, there are just minor fixes here and there but files are pretty much the same (I thought we didn't have "Main" actions in test1 langpacks).
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
Last edited by Mercado_Negro; 12-12-2011 at 10:14 PM.
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12-12-2011, 10:12 PM
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#43
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
...I guess I need to figure something out to "merge" langpack versions.
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I will start on that tool, for now just target whichever you have, we'll make something to combine it with the latest and highlight the stuff that was new.
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12-12-2011, 10:19 PM
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#44
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I will start on that tool, for now just target whichever you have, we'll make something to combine it with the latest and highlight the stuff that was new.
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Thanks, that tool will help a lot
I was thinking on something like a big window split in 2 windows where window 1 would display everything we need to translate and window 2 would display all places in REAPER where words/phrases/statements/etc., are used. Something like "select a word/phase/statement/etc on window 1 and window 2 displays all places where it's used". Maybe this tool could also have some basic stuff to "search", "search and replace" (with upper/lower options, etc.), etc. An "import and merge langpacks" would also help a lot, like you said. I'm using notepad++ right now and it's helped a lot.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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12-12-2011, 11:08 PM
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#45
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
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Some dialogs/windows look like this now, Justin:
Just a FYI
[EDIT] Here's what I've translated so far, just in case you'll need it.: https://stash.reaper.fm/11081/spanishmerc.txt
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
Last edited by Mercado_Negro; 12-12-2011 at 11:14 PM.
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12-13-2011, 02:19 PM
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#46
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Some dialogs/windows look like this now, Justin:
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Got it, I think it'll be better in the next build. Thanks!
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12-14-2011, 02:39 PM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lisboa
Posts: 224
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I'm starting a Portuguese translation
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12-14-2011, 02:56 PM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Until we make all of our dialogs larger.
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Or resizeable
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12-14-2011, 05:53 PM
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#49
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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test3 is up, which has better dialog-rearrangement, and also fixes menu items that have \t in them.
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12-15-2011, 12:47 AM
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#50
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Poor lonesome cowboy
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dans des inter-mondes paysagers
Posts: 1,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
...better dialog-rearrangement
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Really better now! thanks...
@solar :
Quote:
Count me to revise and to help make this perfect If needed me.
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Work in progress here : http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...657#post865657
You're welcome !
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12-15-2011, 08:09 AM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 563
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Quote:
76AC8A0EF584639A=&New project
5CDF6E6E2108FF5C=&Open project...
5A023884C6A47E43=&Save project
B8BB98CEA245679D=Save project &as...
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What are these "&" doing there?
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12-15-2011, 08:12 AM
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#52
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 4,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave]
What are these "&" doing there?
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Keyboard shortcuts (ie ALT-N for "New"); they are underlined visually and respond to ALT + letter following the "&". Works for Window, dunno for Mac...
- Mario
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12-15-2011, 01:19 PM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Erfurt
Posts: 790
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In the new version (reaper414-i8n-test3_i386) the pink things are working. ( http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=14)
But now the menus on top are not translated (I set it to default in Options/Cuszomize menus/toolbars).
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12-15-2011, 03:11 PM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: France
Posts: 3,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar
... and also there are some typical Technical words/Terms that I find need to stay in english even though we are translating it in french etc.. etc.. because we ALL know these TERMS and are worldwide used & applied in English.
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Yes ! Of course, "OK" buttons don't need to be translated !
But, even if most of the people know that "Copy" is "Copier", "Cut" is "Couper" and the meaning of "save", "download", "open", "close", "cancel", and so on... it doesn't mean we should only do a "frenglish" translation because we know those basic terms from other non-translated softwares.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar
In french we need to really be careful. Sometimes I find (although I speak french, write etc.. fluently) that sometimes DAW translation are a bit messier and when two people get together and you 1 was working in english DAW or the other on a french (same DAW of course), they can get consuded because there are Main Terms that gets translated and loose all their value or meaning.
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I agree with you. Some terms like "scrub" are very difficult to translate in french and don't really need it. These are concepts, like "scratch" and we just need to add them to our technical vocabulary.
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12-15-2011, 09:27 PM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benf
Yes ! Of course, "OK" buttons don't need to be translated !
But, even if most of the people know that "Copy" is "Copier", "Cut" is "Couper" and the meaning of "save", "download", "open", "close", "cancel", and so on... it doesn't mean we should only do a "frenglish" translation because we know those basic terms from other non-translated softwares.
I agree with you. Some terms like "scrub" are very difficult to translate in french and don't really need it. These are concepts, like "scratch" and we just need to add them to our technical vocabulary.
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Totally agree with you and with your points as well @benf. Totalement en accord. Indeed, I'm note saying NOT to translate works like Open,Close etc.. I'm talking more specifically about already established TERMS or expressions like the perfect example you gave such "Scratch etc..." because indeed they are and have become Universal.
Alors continuons
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12-17-2011, 12:21 AM
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#56
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Poor lonesome cowboy
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dans des inter-mondes paysagers
Posts: 1,581
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@Justin: I've introduced some translations for [theme] section, but it doesn't work in Reaper...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49204636/Reaper/leet.txt
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12-17-2011, 07:12 PM
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#57
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilerua
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Got it, will be fixed in test5.
btw, test4 is up, which fixes the midi editor top level menu items, the scales, and also optimizes some things...
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12-17-2011, 11:31 PM
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#58
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
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Cool, thanks! Some bugs (just re-tested them in test4):
1 - Jump to time window:
That line isn't translated (IIRC it didn't have that "name" in the langpack, though I added it and tried it with and without it, no luck).
2 - Sample rate dropdown menu:
I can't see anything there since I translated it (though it works as expected: sample rate is changed accordingly).
Btw, Justin, could you please explain "Force project time signatures to have beats on whole samples"? It's a bit hard to translate since I don't understand what it does (and I tried adding some time signature markers and moving them but it always looked the same to me).
Cheers
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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12-18-2011, 02:09 AM
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#59
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom, T. Wells
Posts: 2,454
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Mercado,
I am not that deep into Reaper's drop-down-menus functionality but aren't you supposed to check the box:
√ Tasa de muestreo del proyecto
prior to choose the sample rate? Seems both are somehow interconnected, not absolutely sure though... :/
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12-18-2011, 05:00 AM
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#60
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok
Mercado,
I am not that deep into Reaper's drop-down-menus functionality but aren't you supposed to check the box:
√ Tasa de muestreo del proyecto
prior to choose the sample rate? Seems both are somehow interconnected, not absolutely sure though... :/
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Hey man, thanks for the tip. I just checked that, just in case, and apparently it doesn't make any difference, I can't see any numbers once I choose (click on) one.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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12-18-2011, 09:31 AM
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#61
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Cool, thanks! Some bugs (just re-tested them in test4):
1 - Jump to time window:
That line isn't translated (IIRC it didn't have that "name" in the langpack, though I added it and tried it with and without it, no luck).
2 - Sample rate dropdown menu:
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That may have been fixed in the slightly newer langpacks. Anything that had " in it will need to be updated to the new ones, i.e.:
A495A2F91515D33E=Note: jump to a marker/region by name by entering \"name
Quote:
I can't see anything there since I translated it (though it works as expected: sample rate is changed accordingly).
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I will look at this.
Quote:
Btw, Justin, could you please explain "Force project time signatures to have beats on whole samples"? It's a bit hard to translate since I don't understand what it does (and I tried adding some time signature markers and moving them but it always looked the same to me).
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That means if you have a time signature where a beat is not an exact number of samples long (such as 133bpm at 44khz, where each QN is ~19894.73 samples), it will adjust the BPM to be 133.001 or whatever needed so that each QN is 19895 samples, etc. This can be useful if you want to have each QN consistent in sample length for sample alignment.
Hope that helps...
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12-29-2011, 06:57 AM
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#62
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Mortal
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,969
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No issue here.. OT somehow (I am evaluating localization efforts for an extension plugin).
I assume once defined ini file keys will not change but is there a way one can generate such keys ?
I am talking about the bold part here:
B8BB98CEA245679D=some text
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12-29-2011, 07:29 AM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Location
Posts: 5,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
I just finished the version for the planet Vulcan and fellow member Mr Data.
But seriously, holy workhorse Batman! That's a task. We're going to need a good strategy and tools to collab with this.
EDIT: Juca, language packs are the *.txt files over there. A the moment there's english, lower case, upper case and leet.
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What I read here is what I thought as I downloaded the first version a couple of weeks (or so). ago. I followed the instructions (as good as I could) and downloaded only the "leet.txt" but nothing happened. But I must confess I only had a very brief look at it, wh1ch pr0646ly w45 n07 4 900d 1d34.
Sorry that I haven't got time right now to dive really deep into this, but I'd like to help when-/wherever I can!
EDIT: BTW Gofer, I see an error here: "Cancel" has to be "000000" and the OK button needs to be widened because the right term would be "1011001010010100001100001010001001010110110100100 001". After all, "10" is "ms" as you correctly translated, but not "OK".
-Data
Last edited by Mr. Data; 12-30-2011 at 05:11 PM.
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12-29-2011, 08:10 AM
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#64
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos
No issue here.. OT somehow (I am evaluating localization efforts for an extension plugin).
I assume once defined ini file keys will not change but is there a way one can generate such keys ?
I am talking about the bold part here:
B8BB98CEA245679D=some text
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That string is a FNV64 hash (base16 encoded) of the English string.
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12-30-2011, 08:08 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27
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Organizational suggestions
Hello,
As far as I can see, the scope of work for test4 is 10,033 strings (43,105 words, which equals in quantity to around 173 standard pages of a book). This is UI however, rather than belletristic. UI translation requires much more time and effort.
A skilled professional translator, equipped with relevant tools, would do the job within 20 full working days. In my opinion, such a work might be quite a challenge for an amateur, even working with sheer enthusiasm and without pressure of deadline. I would like to suggest some organizational means.
- All translators should have list of DNT (Do Not Translate) terms, such as Progress1, List1 etc. Otherwise someone would have to solve numerous technical bugs, which might be time-consuming and tedious task.
- There must be central queries support provided. I would propose a public Q&A list in order to avoid answering the same questions again and again (for experts) or searching forum (for translators). Columns of the list: Term in question, Query, Answer. Please note that loads of terms are cryptic or highly technical and in my opinion they do need explantions. Please note also, that moderator of such a list should be helpful and patient. Many "stupid" questions might be not as stupid as they initially apper to be in localization context.
- Taking into account frequent updates to Reaper, localized UI could be in form of association table (content of strings loaded into application by identifiers). I think that updates should NOT contain previously translated strings. Updates should be simply appended to previous table.
- Translators definitively should not test their own work, so testers would be needed.
Hope this helps.
I am willing and able to help with localization into Polish language.
Adam
Last edited by asocial; 12-31-2011 at 01:17 AM.
Reason: typo correction
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12-30-2011, 04:16 PM
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#66
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Mortal
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: France
Posts: 1,969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
That string is a FNV64 hash (base16 encoded) of the English string.
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Oh I see.. thanks!
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12-30-2011, 05:44 PM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asocial
localized UI could be in form of association table. Updates should be simply appended to previous table.
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and this would be epic fail for languages with lot of variations around cases (ie croatian)...I support the idea but it just isn`t ideal for some languages :S
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12-31-2011, 01:15 AM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeder
and this would be epic fail for languages with lot of variations around cases (ie croatian)...I support the idea but it just isn`t ideal for some languages :S
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I guess you have no idea what you are talking about
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12-31-2011, 07:29 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asocial
I guess you have no idea what you are talking about
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then I misunderstood something, sorry :P care to explain how it works?
Cause I got it this way...you assign translated word to original word. for example, in croatian:
Delete = obrisati.
And if you look at two strings of text you would translate them like this:
Do you want to delete something = Želite li obrisati nešto
Delete something = Obriši nešto
as you can see, the word "obrisati" is changing shape according to grammar rules, and those are not of predictable sort in our language, lot`s of exceptions and stuff...
Last edited by Breeder; 12-31-2011 at 07:40 AM.
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01-01-2012, 07:40 AM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeder
care to explain how it works?
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Let's say string with ID=001 reads "Delete" and string with ID=002 reads "Delete all" in English.
In Polish file string ID=001 reads "Usuń" and string ID=002 reads e. g. "Usunąć wszystko".
In Czech file string ID=001 reads "Odstranit" and string ID=002 reads "Odstranit vše".
Application loads the strings by identifiers, so it looks up for ID=001 and ID=002 in relevant language file, and then displays respectively:
- "Delete" and "Delete all" in English UI
- "Usuń" and "Usunąć wszystko" in Polish UI
- "Odstranit" and "Odstranit vše" in Czech UI
Identifiers are unique, so application always loads precisely the needed string from the relevant language file.
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01-01-2012, 06:44 PM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 668
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Breeder, per line of translation, not per word.
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01-02-2012, 03:49 AM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27
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List of localizable files?
Could we get the list of localized resources (exe, dll)?
This would facilitate translation.
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01-14-2012, 01:23 PM
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#73
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Poor lonesome cowboy
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dans des inter-mondes paysagers
Posts: 1,581
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I think that there is a display bug in the midi editor => view=>note=>Piano roll notes=>Show velocity handles on notes
The string concerned is 8D4D0B4B0B6A41EE=
Translation in french is : "Afficher les poignées de vélocité sur les notes" which uses some accents
More than that, Reaper seems to crash sometimes :
here is a licecap :
french langpack below(work in progress):
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01-14-2012, 02:53 PM
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#74
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilerua
I think that there is a display bug in the midi editor => view=>note=>Piano roll notes=>Show velocity handles on notes
The string concerned is 8D4D0B4B0B6A41EE=
Translation in french is : "Afficher les poignées de vélocité sur les notes" which uses some accents
More than that, Reaper seems to crash sometimes :
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I've tried, using your langpack, and can't get it to do either of these things. Can you send your reaper.ini, and also tell us whether you're using 32 or 64 bit REAPER, and what OS version? Thanks!
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01-14-2012, 05:18 PM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Location
Posts: 5,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asocial
Could we get the list of localized resources (exe, dll)?
This would facilitate translation.
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Yes, It seems to be a little cumbersome to see things like "; used by: DLG_103, DLG_122, DLG_171, DLG_238, DLG_261, DLG_268, DLG_422, DLG_444, DLG_506", because we don't really know the context in which the strings of the dialog stand.
Tools like RecourceHacker or RecourceTuner can help here, but I really doubt, that the use of such tools is covered by the license.
-Data
Last edited by Mr. Data; 01-14-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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01-15-2012, 01:05 AM
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#76
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Poor lonesome cowboy
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dans des inter-mondes paysagers
Posts: 1,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I've tried, using your langpack, and can't get it to do either of these things. Can you send your reaper.ini, and also tell us whether you're using 32 or 64 bit REAPER, and what OS version? Thanks!
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OK !
I'm using Windows 7 ultimate sp1 X64, and Reaper V4.14-test4/x64.
REAPER.INI: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49204636/Reaper/REAPER.ini
I've also found a strange thing with the mouse modifiers :
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01-15-2012, 01:32 AM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data
Tools like RecourceHacker or RecourceTuner can help here, but I really doubt, that the use of such tools is covered by the license.
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I use Passolo and for preview only, to see the context.
For translation I use prepared txt file in Trados.
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01-15-2012, 07:11 AM
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#78
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilerua
OK !
I'm using Windows 7 ultimate sp1 X64, and Reaper V4.14-test4/x64.
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OK, thanks! For now, try this:
1) load your text file in notepad
2) add a blank line at the start
3) save-as it to a new file, under encoding select "UTF-8"
Use the new file as your language pack -- both of those bugs should be fixed. There are new problems (strings not displaying properly in the prefs tree view, etc), but I will fix those.
Justin
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01-15-2012, 07:37 AM
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#79
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asocial
- All translators should have list of DNT (Do Not Translate) terms, such as Progress1, List1 etc. Otherwise someone would have to solve numerous technical bugs, which might be time-consuming and tedious task.
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Actually, that those strings are in the langpack is a bit of a bug -- if they are translated, it should not cause any problem.
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01-15-2012, 08:11 AM
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#80
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilerua
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Thank you, though sadly I still can't duplicate .. Do you have any customized menus? Any special bindings ? Can you make a zip of reaper*.ini and give me that, maybe that will help?
Also, does it do the same in test4 (32 bit)?
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