08-08-2018, 07:48 AM | #1 |
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LV2 and Windows VST support
Hi,
at present windows/osx vst are not supported in linux build of REAPER without additional tools - are there plans for implementing support for cross OS VST compatibility straight to REAPER? Currently it seems more viable to run REAPER through WINE (due to lack of vst plugs natively for linux), because then Win VST support works as it should. LinVST seems to be troublesome when plugins try to reach out to external resources. Also are there plans for LV2 support? Thanks, A. |
08-08-2018, 11:59 AM | #2 | |
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Running OS/X plugins on Linux is impossible, as there is no infrastructure for it, maybe some day. Regarding support for Windows VSTs I haven't gotten a clue. There are some solutions that are quite good depending on Wine support to run the plugins. But however you turn this, it's a miracle... You are running plugins meant for another OS in an application... IMO it would be good if reaper could include this, as it's most likely very important to many users, and Wine will just keep on improving so there are good chances that more plugins will start working. On the other hand, maybe the reaper devs have overall more important things to tackle.. Let's let the future surprise us
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08-09-2018, 06:47 AM | #3 |
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Jack, on an unrelated note - should this subforum include issues/questions on armv7l build as well?
I managed to get the arm build working on my Android phone. With ALSA, it runs fine on 512 samples No plugins yet though... |
08-09-2018, 06:52 AM | #4 |
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Yeah sure. This is for anything related to REAPER on Linux!
And congratulations, reaper on an android phone, that's kick ass!
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08-09-2018, 06:57 AM | #5 |
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Ubuntu chrooted through Linux Deploy on rooted and unlocked Redmi Note 4.
Latest IceWM and REAPER 5.93. I had to made a script that bypasses Android audio system and opens the msm8593 soundcard directly. It's currently being controlled through VNC, but there's a noticeable input latency. Haven't tested USB MIDI yet, but I suspect it should work as normal. |
08-09-2018, 07:01 AM | #6 |
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Whoa! what phone? Didn’t realize you could get Android to run linux apps...
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08-09-2018, 07:07 AM | #7 | |
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Yes you can , but it has to be rooted. There's an app called Linux Deploy which install linux distribution of your choice to virtual disk image, which is then mounted and chrooted to your Android shell. Then you can login and access this installation using SSH (JuiceSSH) and VNC (VNC Viewer). It behaves like a regular arm linux installation and all available packages for that architecture can be downloaded normally through apt/yum/pacman. You can also connect to it from your PC by either connecting the phone to your wi-fi and entering the phone's IP address or creating a hotspot straight from Android. Building from source is also possible, but you may need protobuf libraries and depending on CPU speed it might take a while. The above installation was tested on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 with 4GB RAM. Last edited by Andrew479; 08-09-2018 at 07:14 AM. |
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08-09-2018, 07:17 AM | #8 | |
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When I start Reaper, under "Add FX >> VST" all of them are listed. I can load and play them too. && VST 2 coming to an end https://www.steinberg.net/en/newsand...-end-4727.html && VST3 Linux (Beta version) https://github.com/steinbergmedia/vst3sdk#200 |
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08-09-2018, 07:19 AM | #9 | |
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So you didn't have LinVST or anything of that sort installed? |
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08-09-2018, 07:25 AM | #10 |
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I find this very strange. I have no idea how that would work without having wine installed and wrapping the plugins with something like LinVst or Airwave..?
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08-09-2018, 07:26 AM | #11 |
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I have no LinVST installed, yes. No wine either.
I copied some Windows VST to my ".vst" folder. (e.g. U-HE, Xhip, tunefish. ... ) That was all. That's all you have to do. Some (older) VST plugins may need Wine/LinVST. Most of the VST I have from here: https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/lin...effects/newest These run without Wine/LinVST. :-D |
08-09-2018, 07:33 AM | #12 | |
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That sounds like they are Linux VSTs and not Windows VSTs..
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08-09-2018, 07:37 AM | #13 | |
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08-09-2018, 09:23 AM | #14 | |
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The clock is ticking to Jan. 14th 2020, with hope and luck, progress could be made before that deadline. (That date marks the end of Win7 support from MS). The lack of updates isn't disconcerting, but soon afterwards many devs will start dropping support for their software. So before that happens, I'd like to have the audio workstation migrated to linux with all plugins working if possible. ReactOS might be better alternative in the end, but it's highly unlikely that it'll be anywhere beyond first beta by then. |
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08-09-2018, 09:38 AM | #15 |
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One observation, with most windows plugins that don't work with wine, it is because they use newer apis, like d2d and newer msvc runtime. So as ms advances the goal post, wine is catching up and falling behind at the same time..
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08-09-2018, 10:17 AM | #16 |
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I think that direct support for windows plugins in Reaper sounds like a bunch of ongoing work, where instead, plugin developers should be targeting a linux native format such as LV2.
Andrew479, that is kickass running a linux distro/reaper on a phone. So since alsa is being used instead of android's audio, does that mean that alsa supported usb audio devices should work with this? And I assume that the audio latency is much lower than with android audio.
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08-09-2018, 10:37 AM | #17 |
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Or VST3
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08-09-2018, 10:39 AM | #18 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Also such device should be UAD1 or UAD2 compatible (e.g. no proprietary drivers required). Another, more rudimentary problem with this is supplying power. In OTG mode, it's not possible to supply power for charging the phone, as long as only one port is offered. I haven't tested the latency using softsynth yet (mainly due to limited selection of plugins available for arm), but it's in my plans. Last edited by Andrew479; 08-09-2018 at 10:47 AM. |
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08-09-2018, 11:13 PM | #19 |
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Lindows.
There is a point where it stops being Linux that is being used/wanted and it becomes Windows that is being used/wanted. ReactOS might be what some want, an open source Windows, if they can get the bugs out. Microsoft might go open source with Windows in the future, a long shot but maybe. Linux is mostly a volunteer sort of thing so Linux won't attract many native plugin devs and it never has. LV2 is not like AU on the Mac that has Logic behind it, so LV2 is pretty small and it might be good but it's mostly going to be supported by Linux volunteer devs. LinVst etc are just occasional helpers with Windows vst's and not much more. On Linux there are commercial vst's like u-he and also u-he and don't forget u-he. There are some very useful native plugins for Linux including all of the Reaper ones. If someone is using Linux mostly for Windows vst's then that's not really what Linux is about in the first place IMO but it can be done up to a certain point with limits. |
08-10-2018, 12:31 AM | #20 |
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Everything IMHO
Reactos has been programmed since 1996. Yes, it might be usable in the next 10 - x years and could become one of hopefully several alternatives for audio applications. Wine is not what I want. I want native (Linux audio) programs. Windows/Mac as an operating system is becoming less and less important as it is moving to the cloud. The Windows/Mac operating system will soon only be offered as a rentable operating system. OSX has a smaller market share than e. g. the IPhone (~mobile). With all operating systems (Mac/Win/Lin) the audio users make up perhaps 5% of the total users, thus rather an insignificant portion of the (paying) users. I like LV2 1000 times better than VST3, but I think that Linux-VST3 can be a transition to LV2. # Differences between the individual operating systems Everything IMHO
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GNU/LINUX@AUDIO ~ /Wiki $ Howto.Info && GNU/Linux Debian installing >> Linux Audio Workstation LAW Last edited by khz; 08-10-2018 at 01:09 AM. |
08-11-2018, 12:50 PM | #21 | |
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beneath it comes innovation, making the impossible reality, then efficiency, maximizing ones investments of time, personal energy, and money, and then some security from cyber-intrusions. These all present an enjoyable environment in which to attempt things, whatever things one cares for. Cheers |
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08-11-2018, 02:25 PM | #22 | |
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with save, load, name/rename, and delete functions, and load a preset in no more than two mouseclicks, one to open the browser, and one to select a sound. Having the browser window remain open until dismissed, would be a good config option. Makes sorting the keepers from the bleepers a lot easier. But at that level, I think it's LV3 territory. And in need of torch-bearers and funding, and more new plugins. Cheers |
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04-09-2020, 10:52 PM | #23 | |
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I haven’t use my android device in about five years. Are you saying that you have to log into your android device from another device? Or are you using the VNC Viewer just looping back to your own device? I can now run android on my iPhone 7, I have been wanting to get reaper working on my smart phone since ancient Roman times. The iPhone has proper almost no latency hardware even with just a built-in microphone, and with USB interfaces
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04-10-2020, 10:11 AM | #24 | |
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with whatever it is you prefer, sans labeling. Recently, it seems like you and jack-winter are under-selling linvst and wine. Those musicians who refuse the 'upgrade just because it's there' syndrome can have very productive creative workstations when using linvst and wine-staging. Thanks for your great apps, they are game-changers! Very, very, very! (I like your u-he, u-he, u-he hints, those products are also game-changers for linux musicians. Cheers Last edited by 4duhwinnn; 04-10-2020 at 10:20 AM. |
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04-11-2020, 03:28 PM | #25 |
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Yeah, I like the "remember U-He" as well...
I want more devs to support linux, so I support the devs who do. I bought Linux native plugins from U-He, Venomode, Audio Assault, Audio Damage, Auburn Sounds, Bom Shanka, DiscoDSP, Overtone DSP, Renoise & Harrison. Some of the plugins are decent, some are great, all of them work. There are some awesome free fx and instruments for Linux (some better than competing $$ plugins), and heck yeah I use them too. But I try to put my money where my mouth is. Especially if a dev is testing the waters by offering Linux native builds for one or two plugins, if it's not super expensive and there's a demo download that works, I'll buy it. And if the demo doesn't work, I email tech support and share the errors I get to help them fix it. If they take the time to respond and actually fix the problem, I'm in! Many of the devs listed above didn't offer linux native plugins 9 months ago... It looks to me like more devs are testing the Linux native waters. Good times! |
04-11-2020, 06:46 PM | #26 | |
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there are four others as good or better that do. The selection is so vast, compared to the man-hours most composers or hobbyists have, that the long list of working plugins is dwarfed by need to figure out what to do with those one actually has time and a purpose for. I'll suggest that microsoft isn't advancing much for their customers, while advancing their data-snatching capabilities as fast as humanly possible. On the surface, using customer data, and whatever un-secured data they stumble upon, in one way or another, appears to be their business model, and quite successful, at that. They'll improve the user tools of the OS just enough to keep it afloat. There's no money in OS excellence, when there is far better money in excellent data. Cheers |
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04-12-2020, 03:13 AM | #27 | |
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I just haven't been very active for a while, and I don't want to tell users what to use.. I spent a lot of time and effort to help with getting Reaper for Linux going, hopefully the community can help itself nowadays.
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04-12-2020, 03:56 AM | #28 |
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Weren't you also part of the first wineasio project?
In the era of the Jacklab distro on Suse? Those days were like men walking on the moon, compared to using windows! There's a book there somewhere, waiting to be written, and the Bill Gates version would be ever so boring... |
04-17-2020, 08:46 AM | #29 |
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I rewrote wineasio and improved some things, am happy to have found someone else to maintain it nowadays. Version 1.0 should be out soon, though not much changes except for a control panel to change some of it's parameters.
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04-18-2020, 08:41 AM | #30 |
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If you install Carla and enable its WINE Bridge, you can load the Linux Native Carla VST into Reaper and it will let you fill a virtual rack with Windows VSTs.
If this sounds a bit complex to set up, try it through Ubuntu Studio. It has it all set up already except for adding WINE to the system and flipping the switch in Carla. It works great. And, if you are already using a different flavor of Ubuntu, you can load the Ubuntu Studio Installer from apt into your existing install and grab the pre-configured Carla from there.
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04-18-2020, 01:36 PM | #31 |
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Are we getting closer to fully automatic Win VST support in Reaper ?
-Michael |
04-18-2020, 02:34 PM | #32 |
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Yes, but you need to run Windows.
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04-18-2020, 03:12 PM | #33 | |
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which in my cup-half-full-and-overflowing world view, is excellent. As it is, the available manpower/braintrust are focussed and functioning at a high level. Reaper improves Plugin wrapping improves Wine improves Windows plugins often improve Number of native linux vsts grows, and their quality improves The result is that only a handful of softwares won't work on linux, and half of them bring hated copy protections even to their mac/win customers, and most of those exist to rescue shoddy musicianship, singers who would make the tiles fall off the shower walls, and dudes with five strings on their guitar, who think they are mixers or studio engineers. To me, things seem great, no need to throw fine cuisine in a blender. Cheers |
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04-18-2020, 03:55 PM | #34 | |
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difficult going forward, for him to provide good support. And that for now, most attention will got to work on jackd, good news indeed! |
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