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Old 07-16-2019, 04:35 AM   #1
RobjonWood
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Default Can not hear midi playback(I can record in midi)

Hi,I am new here.I hope I am posting in the right place. I successfully recorded in midi via my guitar and Focusrite 2i4 and using midi guitar 2.I play it back and nothing. Record monitoring is on.I've watched a few videos. I really do not understand what I am doing wrong. Thanks for any help.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:15 PM   #2
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Hi. I've just tried this with a trial version of MIDI guitar. If I load a pre-recorded MIDI track and add MIDI guitar as a VST (as an FX) it plays fine and I can alter the sound via the "Instrument Output" panel in the Avdvanced Tab.

So just check:
1. You have actually recorded MIDI (ie you can see the notes).
2. Have you still got MIDI guitar active on that track? Or even try a different VSTi entirely. Both should work.
3. Make sure you haven't muted that track or perhaps soloed another!
4. Record monitoring should of course be irrelevant when playing back but I am presuming you could hear the sound generated by MIDI Guitar when recording (I mean other than the guitar itself!)

Sorry if these are too basic but I am guilty of all of these at one stage or another and it pays to eliminate the obvious first.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:08 AM   #3
RobjonWood
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Default Can not hear midi playback(I can record in midi)

hi guys,I an new here and I hope I am asking for help in the right place. I have watched a few videos on how I can record my guitar and get the output to be midi.
I see the midi but I can not hear it on playback. This is really frustrating. I do not know what I am doing wrong.I am reading the reaper manual and googling for the answer.
Thanks for any help.

Rob
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:24 AM   #4
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You have recorded the MIDI data form your guitar in Reaper. Now you will need some sort of synth (software plug-in or hardware) to receive the MIDI and create the audio.

Just to try it out, add the plug-in ReaSynth to the track, turn down the track volume (or the volume in the ReaSynth GUI) and click the Play button. You should hear something.

Check out the Reaper User Guide for the details;
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/userguide.php

Let us know and we can go from there.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:39 AM   #5
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Thanks for your reply and I apologize for getting back to you so late. I did try the ReaSynth and yes I hear something. By the way sorry, I realized if I want help I need to be more clear in my goal and my explanation.My goal is to record my electric guitar as midi and be able to add Vsts to the sound like guitar amps etc. I followed some video and did all the steps but I only was able to record in midi without being able to hear anything on playback. Signal Path: So I recorded using my electric guitar through Focusrite then through midi guitar 2(which seems needed in order to record output in midi) and then tried to add an guitar amp vst. It seems the only way to hear the midi I recorded is to add some instrument in midi guitar 2 which means I must select some synth which means I get some sound I dont want.In short I want to record the vst amp sound while recording my guitar signal output into midi.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:44 AM   #6
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Thanks for your reply and I apologize for getting back to you so late. "Yes" to all of your questions- By the way sorry, I realized if I want help I need to be more specific in my goal and my explanation.My goal is to record my electric guitar as midi and be able to add/change the sound via Vsts like guitar amps etc. I followed some video and did all the steps but I only was able to record in midi without being able to hear anything on playback. Signal Path: So I recorded using my electric guitar through Focusrite then through midi guitar 2(which seems needed in order to record output in midi) and then tried to add an guitar amp vst. It seems the only way to hear the midi I recorded is to add some instrument in midi guitar 2 which means I must select some synth which means I get some sound I dont want.In short I want to record the vst amp sound while recording my guitar signal output into midi.
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:04 AM   #7
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That's OK.

Now, what you need is a VSTi that will use your recorded MIDI to create a guitar sound. After that you can apply amp fx etc.

If you send the MIDI directly to the guitar amp VST you will not hear anything as that amp VST does not have any audio to work on.

Orange Tree does some great guitar libraries - some (many?) use the free Kontakt Player (from Native Instruments).
https://www.orangetreesamples.com/products

And there is a Group Buy on right now, but there is under 4 hours left to join, with 60% off:
https://www.orangetreesamples.com/group-buy

Quote:
The group buy signup period lasts until July 22nd (at 8 AM PDT), after which you have until August 12th (at 8 AM PDT) to complete your purchase.
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobjonWood View Post
Thanks for your reply and I apologize for getting back to you so late. "Yes" to all of your questions- By the way sorry, I realized if I want help I need to be more specific in my goal and my explanation.My goal is to record my electric guitar as midi and be able to add/change the sound via Vsts like guitar amps etc. I followed some video and did all the steps but I only was able to record in midi without being able to hear anything on playback. Signal Path: So I recorded using my electric guitar through Focusrite then through midi guitar 2(which seems needed in order to record output in midi) and then tried to add an guitar amp vst. It seems the only way to hear the midi I recorded is to add some instrument in midi guitar 2 which means I must select some synth which means I get some sound I dont want.In short I want to record the vst amp sound while recording my guitar signal output into midi.
You don't need MIDI to use amp sim VSTs. If you just want to add FX to a guitar sound there is no need to convert the audio to MIDI.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:06 AM   #9
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DarkStar Thanks, I checked out the Orange Tree stuff and it sounds good. I hope it really works: give my midi recordings(performed on guitar) realistic guitar sound. I did some quick research and didnt see anybody using it for this purpose.
I need(would like to) to record in midi so that I have all the fast editing advantages. For example,If after submitting a recording somebody asks me to change the recording's tempo or transpose it etc., I can do it very quickly.
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:13 AM   #10
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I am sure that many guitar players here record the MIDI then use Orange Tree (other guitar sounds libraries are available) and an Amp VST to get the sound they want.

If you are looking for a "guitar and bass tone studio" check out IK Multimedia's AmpliTube. https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/amplitube4/. There's a free edition (AmpliTube Custom Shop) with a few gear modules included and others that you can try. And the paid-for edition is on sale at the moment.
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Old 07-23-2019, 05:14 AM   #11
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Thanks, I already have a few amp vsts: Bias Fx,flextron,
but when they are added to the midi recording on playback they do not add sound.So it must be like you say, there needs to be some synth or instrument vst(vsti?) to convert the midi to audio. I just want to make sure this Orange Tree is the best option for me and answer to my problems.I'm on a budget but if its worth it I will get it. What's frustrating is I've spent a lot of time researching this topic. In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8D2jEhbN7Y Kenny shows how to do what I want except I want a guitar through guitar amp sound. I noticed at 2:47 in the video who clicks on Instruments or VSTi under Fx options. This must be or seems to be the issue. I researched VSTis and it seems they are important but when googling for example "VSTi guitar amps for midi" It always shows just VSTs etc.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:32 AM   #12
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Impact Soundworks has a free version of Shreddage you might want to check out:

https://impactsoundworks.com/product...-stratus-free/
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:36 AM   #13
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Searching for "guitar amps" will give you VSTs - they are effects processors, receiving audio, doing something to it then outputting the modified audio.

What you need is a VSTi - a VST software Instrument. it will not be an "amp".

Google "VSTi guitar" instead. Even better if you can included the guitar model, or the name of someone who uses one.

https://www.bigfishaudio.com/Guitar-...struments.html
https://blog.native-instruments.com/...rtual-guitars/

Many software guitars will be in the form of a guitar sample library (Native Instruments, Orange Tree, Soundiron, Indiginus, Pettinhouse, Ilya Efimov to name but 6) that you load into a VSTi Sampler (such as Kontakt). There are also some libraries that you can load into a free VSTi Sampler e.g. CWI Tec's TW16Wx).

Other software guitars will be "physically-modelled" synths. But I do not know much about them.
https://www.applied-acoustics.com/strum-gs-2/
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:46 AM   #14
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When I checked out the shreddage it says "Full Version of Kontakt required" so I suppose I have to buy that too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Rebo View Post
Impact Soundworks has a free version of Shreddage you might want to check out:
https://impactsoundworks.com/product...-stratus-free/
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:38 PM   #15
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you'll probably be able to test it out in Kontakt Player, but it'll time out after 15mins or something, i think.
If you are looking for a wide-range of actual guitar samples you probably would want to consider getting Kontakt, as there are lots of libraries available
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobjonWood View Post
Thanks, I already have a few amp vsts: Bias Fx,flextron,
but when they are added to the midi recording on playback they do not add sound.So it must be like you say, there needs to be some synth or instrument vst(vsti?) to convert the midi to audio. I just want to make sure this Orange Tree is the best option for me and answer to my problems.I'm on a budget but if its worth it I will get it. What's frustrating is I've spent a lot of time researching this topic. In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8D2jEhbN7Y Kenny shows how to do what I want except I want a guitar through guitar amp sound. I noticed at 2:47 in the video who clicks on Instruments or VSTi under Fx options. This must be or seems to be the issue. I researched VSTis and it seems they are important but when googling for example "VSTi guitar amps for midi" It always shows just VSTs etc.
I think part of the problem is that you may be misunderstanding what midi is. It stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface and is a protocol for controlling instruments. As such it does not produce sound on its own, the midi you see on the track purely triggers notes on an instrument - in this case a virtual instrument (i.e. VSTi) like in Kenny's video. It does not contain audio data, therefore putting it through an amp would not produce any sound.

A 'VSTi guitar amp for midi' is meaningless. A VSTi is a VST instrument such as a synth, hence the 'i'. A guitar amp on the other hand such as those by Bias, is a VST effect essentially - i.e. it has an effect on an audio signal which as I explained in the previous paragraph, a midi signal is not. This would be like taking the midi out from a hardware synthesiser and plugging it into an actual guitar amp such as a marshall. You would not be outputting any audio signal to the amp and therefore it would be silent (except for a horrible buzzing I imagine caused by trying to jam such a lead into an audio input...).

You stated that you want to give your midi 'realistic guitar sounds'. The only way you could possibly do this is to use the midi to trigger a synth or a sampler with a guitar sound. However, I think you will find that this is unlikely to be realistic sounding as it will lack the dynamics of a guitar being played and the variations in tone that differences in picking etc introduce.
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobjonWood View Post
When I checked out the shreddage it says "Full Version of Kontakt required" so I suppose I have to buy that too?
Yes, you are correct. I own the paid version (works in Kontakt Player) so I assumed the free version did as well...
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:48 PM   #18
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Also, I don't see the point of converting the audio from your guitar to MIDI if you only intend to use it with an amp sim?! I get it if you want to use your guitar to play other instruments (synth, piano, etc.), but if you want it to sound like a guitar why not just record the guitar (Direct Input)?
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Rebo View Post
Also, I don't see the point of converting the audio from your guitar to MIDI if you only intend to use it with an amp sim?! I get it if you want to use your guitar to play other instruments (synth, piano, etc.), but if you want it to sound like a guitar why not just record the guitar (Direct Input)?
The main reasons I want to record in mid is to have the editing capabilities for my projects i.e. change temp or transpose quickly. I want to avoid having to re-record for such edits. I got this idea from a music producer who makes music for Tv and film. The thing is he uses a midi keyboard. What want to know is can
I do what he does but only use my guitar to record and avoid using a keyboard?
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:05 AM   #20
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You can change tempo or transpose quickly with audio - admittedly you may get some artefacts, but it may be worth investigating if this is better for your workflow than converting a guitar to MIDI & triggering guitar samples.
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobjonWood View Post
The main reasons I want to record in mid is to have the editing capabilities for my projects i.e. change temp or transpose quickly. I want to avoid having to re-record for such edits. I got this idea from a music producer who makes music for Tv and film. The thing is he uses a midi keyboard. What want to know is can
I do what he does but only use my guitar to record and avoid using a keyboard?
Please read my reply above above on the difference between midi and audio.

Your can convert the guitar to midi, but this carries no audio information. It will merely trigger sounds on a synthesiser/sampler in the same way as his keyboard does. It does not carry any audio information i.e. sound.
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:50 PM   #22
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I think it has been explained to you a few times, yet I also see you kind of stumbling over the concept still.... so

MIDI is not audio... it is just data, that is just information that tells something else what to do.
When MIDI is sent to a VSTi instrument [like a sampler or a synth] it tells it to play a note and also other info about how to play the note... long, short, soft or loud, etc. [overly simplified but basically true]
It is then the VSTi that produces audio.
Now when you also speak about AMP's they will be VST [not VSTi] which means they are an added effect to some existing audio...
They do not generate audio on their own... they only modify existing audio

I hope that helps
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:03 AM   #23
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Ok guys thanks for your patience-You have taught me a lot and explained well. I have been going nuts during the past week trying to get Reaper set up correctly,recording ideas etc. I think I will just record in audio and get back to trying to record my guitar in midi with a guitar tone later. I realized this is perhaps not as big as a priority as just recording my ideas and getting them out of my system.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:58 AM   #24
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Default midi madness-:)

Thanks for your patience guys. You have helped me understand more than I did before.
This video below pretty much shows what I want to do. I tried both methods and again can not hear anything on playback. I know you guys told me that I need some Vsti sampler.So why does it work for this guy and not me. I was thinking to get the Odin 2 deluxe because it supposedly records DI guitar(and does not need Kontakt) and you can add any vst to it. Though they say you can add any vst to it, all the demos of it are metal style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQARhcHvYVc

Thanks for your advice and opinions,
Rob
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobjonWood View Post
Thanks for your patience guys. You have helped me understand more than I did before.
This video below pretty much shows what I want to do. I tried both methods and again can not hear anything on playback.

Thanks for your advice and opinions,
Rob
You said you loaded reasynth and could hear sound....this is exactly what he is doing so it is working for you just the same as it is for him.
The only difference is he shows the Redtron instrument being loaded where you loaded Reasynth.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobjonWood View Post
Thanks for your patience guys. You have helped me understand more than I did before.
This video below pretty much shows what I want to do. I tried both methods and again can not hear anything on playback. I know you guys told me that I need some Vsti sampler.So why does it work for this guy and not me. I was thinking to get the Odin 2 deluxe because it supposedly records DI guitar(and does not need Kontakt) and you can add any vst to it. Though they say you can add any vst to it, all the demos of it are metal style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQARhcHvYVc

Thanks for your advice and opinions,
Rob
Please see my previous replies.

The youtube video shows somebody using the guitar as a midi controller - he is not recording the guitar signal but using the guitar to control a midi instrument.

What it does not do is allow you to record DI guitar. Neither does the Odin II, it is effectively a synth/sampler that recreates the sound of electric guitar.
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