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Old 02-21-2019, 02:22 PM   #1
Gass n Klang
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Default Reverb tails and small clicks at the beginning of a track after rendering

hey guys,
I often get small clicks or reverb tails at the beginning of a rendered track. having to check every render for these artefacts drives me crazy. Any hints how to solve that?
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:07 PM   #2
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There may be some fx/buffer/flush options. Barring those, on projects where this could be a problem, I automate my FX buss to -inf up to the start of the actual audio. That way, regardless of what the FX are doing, they can't infect the beginning of the track.
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Old 10-08-2020, 06:50 AM   #3
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could we have this please? It happens on most of my projects. That's really annoying. I always have to hit play at the very end of the project to get the buffer empty.
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Old 10-08-2020, 12:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
could we have this please? It happens on most of my projects. That's really annoying. I always have to hit play at the very end of the project to get the buffer empty.
+10,000.

It's a bit crazy to me that this bug is still around - it's like building the most incredible car in existence (top-notch engineering, innovative) - but there's glitches when you turn the key. Like, the entire thing is flushed down the toilet because the final and ultimately most important functional user-experience (the render) is flawed.
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Old 10-08-2020, 12:33 PM   #5
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yes and it's quite embarassing to send these defective files to clients ... "oh whats going on there right before the intro?" "ah sorry, it's a software problem". not professional at all => I always have to check my renders even for in-between versions...
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Old 12-05-2020, 02:36 PM   #6
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Devs?
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
hey guys,
I often get small clicks or reverb tails at the beginning of a rendered track. having to check every render for these artefacts drives me crazy. Any hints how to solve that?
This is something that has needed fixing for a long time.

Please address this issue devs.
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Old 12-06-2020, 06:55 AM   #8
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Hmm, is that what that is? I've been hearing some small clicks at the start of renders but I thought it was my imagination...
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Old 12-06-2020, 11:39 AM   #9
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Hmm, is that what that is? I've been hearing some small clicks at the start of renders but I thought it was my imagination...
It's often not just a simple click but a long reverb tail.
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Old 12-07-2020, 03:52 AM   #10
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I experience this in my everyday work. I rerender a 90 minutes concert at the moment due to this bug -.-
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Old 12-07-2020, 04:08 AM   #11
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Default "Some devices need to switch sample rate"?

I had problems with the concert I mentioned in my post above. Seemed like "Symphony" by "Exponential Audio" caused the error. I switched to online bounce and go a message like "some devices need to switch sample rate. This box disappears as soon as it's done". Then I heard the buggy reverb tail and the render began. I canceled, and used the project sample rate setting in the project settings menu and it's gone!

Devs, perhaps this is the issue?
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Old 12-08-2020, 02:32 PM   #12
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Also with certain plugins (ie Arturia Spring-636) the beginning of the render will contain a spring blast. Have to automate every instance of Spring-636 to mute the first bar, every time.
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Old 12-08-2020, 03:34 PM   #13
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same problem here...
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:04 PM   #14
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I don't have concrete basis to assume this, but this can't be that hard of a bug to squash can it? It's as simple as internally running some blank space offline to quickly flush the tails before the render begins, no? A pretty severe bug to leave untouched in a decade...
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:10 PM   #15
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I'm sure it as simple as flushing the buffer but 'when' it should be flushed so that it doesn't kill tails when they shouldn't be killed is a plausible catch-22 from a programming perspective.

I think I mentioned this in the other thread where a possible way to get around that catch-22 could be "flush the buffer on 'rewind'" instead of stop but I imagine that gets sticky because stop usually rewinds and there lots of scenarios where we'd want those tails so. Like you I'm having to guess some but the flush the buffer part, I'm somewhat confident of.

Most likely "flush when pressing play" is the better approach which is possibly how I worded it before. I know this is post render but there are similarities aka the FX tail buffer and addressing both scenarios.
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Old 12-10-2020, 02:04 PM   #16
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Well I didn't recognize that behaviour in all other DAWs I ever used. So it can't be that difficult to solve ...
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Old 12-10-2020, 02:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
Well I didn't recognize that behaviour in all other DAWs I ever used. So it can't be that difficult to solve ...
Except reaper does a lot of things/features completely differently which offer some advantages other DAWS don't have, which in turn introduces unique corner-case issues like this that other DAWs don't have... which in turn means we can't assume it must be simple in Reaper.

It might be simple and I think it could be maybe, but there are plausible reasons it might not be. Just something to remember that tends to be unique about Reaper when comparing like that.
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Old 12-10-2020, 02:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Except reaper does a lot of things/features completely differently which offer some advantages other DAWS don't have, which in turn introduces unique corner-case issues like this that other DAWs don't have... which in turn means we can't assume it must be simple in Reaper.

It might be simple and I think it could be maybe, but there are plausible reasons it might not be. Just something to remember that tends to be unique about Reaper when comparing like that.
yes, you're right. But nevertheless: It's an issue that needs to be fixed. It's not just a simple bug you can workaround but something serious that can destroy a product if you are just a little bit distracted.
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Old 12-10-2020, 02:49 PM   #19
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Are you talking about renders inside the sesion or renderering the final mix /stems ?

I use reaper for a long time, busy mixes and never had those issues in freezed /rendered tracks or final mix renders. I use a combination of hardware and software.

Are you sure you have everything ok in Reaper preferences? With so many things you can configure sometimes its a mater of a settings that is not ok for some more intense cpu /media reading projects.

Things to check in preferences:

uncheck pre-zero output buffers - Audio - Device
check Anticipative Fx processing -Audio - Buffering
check Do not process muted tracks - Audio -Mute/solo ( can free some cpu for long projects )
check Allow anticipative FX processing when rendering - Audio - Rendering


Most are on by default but its worth checking.
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Old 12-10-2020, 02:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
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But nevertheless: It's an issue that needs to be fixed..
Right, no one suggested it doesn't need to be fixed.
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44 View Post
Are you talking about renders inside the sesion or renderering the final mix /stems ?

I use reaper for a long time, busy mixes and never had those issues in freezed /rendered tracks or final mix renders. I use a combination of hardware and software.

Are you sure you have everything ok in Reaper preferences? With so many things you can configure sometimes its a mater of a settings that is not ok for some more intense cpu /media reading projects.

Things to check in preferences:

uncheck pre-zero output buffers - Audio - Device
check Anticipative Fx processing -Audio - Buffering
check Do not process muted tracks - Audio -Mute/solo ( can free some cpu for long projects )
check Allow anticipative FX processing when rendering - Audio - Rendering


Most are on by default but its worth checking.
Thanks pepe, yeah I've toyed with all those settings (and their combinations) unfortunately for longer than I care to admit haha. It's possible to slightly affect the behaviour with the "tails" options, but in the end this issue still plagues 100% of Track Renders unfortunately.
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:58 PM   #22
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I'm sure it as simple as flushing the buffer but 'when' it should be flushed so that it doesn't kill tails when they shouldn't be killed is a plausible catch-22 from a programming perspective.
100%, for sure the challenge is that kind of minutia - and how to minimize creating issues/unforeseen circumstances.

Like even as a temporary workaround, if simply the "Render Track" behaviour (ie, exporting your master) could be freed of that bug that would be so important.

Any scripters out there? My abilities aren't up to snuff, but while the devs ponder whether to fix this or not - this feels totally doable in Lua/RS.

Here's one thought:

1. Store current location, then create a measure at t = either a quadrilion, or at negative time... just a guaranteed empty bar somewhere
2. Run time at some accelerated rate while keeping buffers live. This could be done by running a Full Speed render offline on that bar a bunch of times -- just anything to simulate live time passing and the buffers flushing
3. Return to stored location

And just run this script right before render, or at any time of your choosing.

Last edited by ferropop; 12-11-2020 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 12-12-2020, 12:25 PM   #23
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Maybe I'll toss that pseudocode in the Scripting forum and report back if anyone bites.
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Old 02-27-2023, 06:16 AM   #24
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I'm facing this issue right and i was looking for a solution.

There is any fix for that? I see it's an old issue
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Old 12-07-2023, 02:10 PM   #25
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Same problem...Any solution?
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Old 12-07-2023, 11:10 PM   #26
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yes , use non faulty plugins.


https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=19
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Old 12-08-2023, 01:24 AM   #27
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Sure, it might be the plugin‘s fault. I just wonder how other DAWs handle this as I never ever had a problem like this in any other DAW using the same pöugins (soundtoys is really bad at this…) I‘d be happy if reaper pre-rendered silence to avoid having that click in my exports even if the export itself took 20 seconds longer.
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Old 12-08-2023, 08:54 AM   #28
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Glad to know it's a plug issue.... I hope it doesn't turn out to be one that I'm particularly attached to.
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Old 12-08-2023, 11:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
+10,000.

It's a bit crazy to me that this bug is still around - it's like building the most incredible car in existence (top-notch engineering, innovative) - but there's glitches when you turn the key. Like, the entire thing is flushed down the toilet because the final and ultimately most important functional user-experience (the render) is flawed.
+ a million (and then some) - it's been like this since the beggining of time and while I tend to seek to solve it the way karbomusic suggested, even that isn't always a fully working solution.
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Old 12-08-2023, 11:07 AM   #30
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I wonder why it's a Reaper-specific issue then... ?
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Old 12-08-2023, 10:14 PM   #31
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reaper sticks to defaults i guess.
others do not.

may be

Last edited by bobobo; 12-08-2023 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 12-09-2023, 11:04 AM   #32
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To make it more complicated: I used to have such issues with Cakewalk (fx tail at the beginning of the render/mixdown) which was one of the reasons why I switched to Reaper.

Until now (3 months of using) I did not experience any problems like this with Reaper...
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Old 12-09-2023, 06:13 PM   #33
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I wonder why it's a Reaper-specific issue then... ?

I'm confused. (More than usual.) Schwa says it's a plug issue but that's not correct?

I've not drilled down deeply into this issue, but a little test tonight on my Windows 7 rig showed that, with the VST2 version of a certain reverb, the tails will ring on for a long time after I hit the stop button, whereas, with the VST3 version of that same plug, the tails stop ringing almost immediately.

The reverb tails of the VST2 version show up in the "empty" space at the beginning of a render while, with the VST3 version, it's not an issue.
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