Old 09-19-2018, 12:03 AM   #41
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Perfect! Thanks so much! This puts things in a very usable state for me, so I'll be testing a lot more extensively in the coming weeks. Man, it's so cool how easy ReaPack makes it to test and update stuff like this. Can't believe how quickly you put this together, or indeed that someone still exists to appreciate the workflow of Buzz enough to take the time! G/L with your other projects!
Buzz has the best workflow of all time, and will always be. Simplest possible interface but with power editing options. Add a break here and there, for variety, finished.

Looked very quickly to hackey machines, it seems what it does basically, beside all the pictured explanations above: For each box/machine it creates a new Reaper track, for each arrow it creates a Reaper send. In short hackey machines allows much more comfortable workflow with send adjustments. This is perfect if you are someone like me who almost never used Reapers built in sends extensively, as those settings are too difficult to access, quickly. For main send tracks, like 8 sends, I was using instead normal Reaper tracks as sends. Now I can continue using those, plus now hackey machines. Playing around with send fx should be much more fun now. Duplicate and modify is also fantastic. Thanks saike and all idea generators.

FYI
Hackey Machines installs under Scripts/Routing tools/MachineView

Last edited by TonE; 09-19-2018 at 12:19 AM. Reason: installation dir added
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:36 AM   #42
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Shift-link creates a send routing, now.
What about adding something for sidechain routing, ctrl-shift-link for example?

How should it work?
ctrl-shift-link from kick to pad and pad would start to sidechain according to kick input. There are already various actions which can do this. Hackey Machines could use them, too. The main difference would be, typically you send to 3/4 instead of 1/2. The other signal will listen to 3/4 of course.

Tracks could get default names, e.g. name of first fx during creation.
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:55 PM   #43
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Hey there mate, and welcome back! I messed around with the control settings and there's just a few things I'm still struggling with. I really need a way for right drag to pan the view instead of middle mouse. I just can't get used to it, since I use RMB navigation in my 3 most used apps and it's just ingrained in my workflow by now. I studied the script and saw how I could switch it, but I think the context menu prevents it from actually working. If you have a handy way to make this optional, that would be super helpful to me.

I noticed are that when the help info or other text is up, zooming and panning still happen, but in the background the results don't show until the text is gone. It's a little strange.

Breaking the connections says REM. Might be good to make it consistent with deleting machines (DEL)? To my mind BRK (for break) or DIS (disconnect) might even be more intuitive.

Would it be possible to have a square grid instead of rectangular (half as wide as now)?

Lastly, I guess the color opacity should be somewhat higher, maybe 75%? It doen't give very accurate results with either background color, currently.

Thanks, dude!
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:17 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by kmkrebs View Post
As for the FX_list, adding ReaEq works fine. Maybe something with the spaces, although I haven't noticed the same problem on any of the VSTs I've got in there. Good luck!
Seems that for JSFX, you have to use the filename in the list rather than the name. Not sure why this is seemingly inconsistent in the API :/

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What about adding something for sidechain routing, ctrl-shift-link for example?

ctrl-shift-link from kick to pad and pad would start to sidechain according to kick input. There are already various actions which can do this. Hackey Machines could use them, too. The main difference would be, typically you send to 3/4 instead of 1/2. The other signal will listen to 3/4 of course.
Sure thing. Added. CTRL + SHIFT sends to channel 3/4 by default instead of the normal 1/2. A little X when dragging denotes that you are doing this.
By the way, you can also edit the channels it is routed to by hovering over the cable's arrow.

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Tracks could get default names, e.g. name of first fx during creation.
The default name for a block is the first FX when a track name is absent.

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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
I really need a way for right drag to pan the view instead of middle mouse. I just can't get used to it, since I use RMB navigation in my 3 most used apps and it's just ingrained in my workflow by now. I studied the script and saw how I could switch it, but I think the context menu prevents it from actually working. If you have a handy way to make this optional, that would be super helpful to me.
Added this as option, moving the insert machine context menu to middle mouse. You can toggle control scheme via F12.

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I noticed are that when the help info or other text is up, zooming and panning still happen, but in the background the results don't show until the text is gone. It's a little strange.
Can you show me a GIF of this? I think I may be misunderstanding what you mean. The help should disappear when you pan the view.

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Breaking the connections says REM. Might be good to make it consistent with deleting machines (DEL)? To my mind BRK (for break) or DIS (disconnect) might even be more intuitive.
Decided to go with DEL for consistency even though BRK looks cool and DIS seemed most logical.

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Would it be possible to have a square grid instead of rectangular (half as wide as now)?
Done.

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Lastly, I guess the color opacity should be somewhat higher, maybe 75%?
I made it a bit higher.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:00 PM   #45
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Thanks, sai'ke! Ok you're right panning does make the infos go away, but zooming doesn't. Just hit F1, zoom, then click to see the zooming happen after the infos go away. Not a huge deal, but pretty weird.

I'll redo my config changes and submit them to you in case you want to try them for a preset.
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:20 PM   #46
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Regarding the use of 'shift + right button' to bring up the default Reaper VST lists that I saw in the other Hackey-Tracker thread.

When I try it, I get in initial error 'Could not find ini plugin file: (...)reaper-vstplugins.ini', followed by the menu coming up.

I think the reason is that I have no 32-bit Vst plugins, only 64-bit. I checked the Reaper directory, and verified the only file there is reaper-vstplugins64.ini.
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Old 09-27-2018, 02:52 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by kmkrebs View Post
Regarding the use of 'shift + right button' to bring up the default Reaper VST lists that I saw in the other Hackey-Tracker thread.

When I try it, I get in initial error 'Could not find ini plugin file: (...)reaper-vstplugins.ini', followed by the menu coming up.

I think the reason is that I have no 32-bit Vst plugins, only 64-bit. I checked the Reaper directory, and verified the only file there is reaper-vstplugins64.ini.
Whoops. Yeah, I assumed they would always exist unless there was something wrong. I have removed the warning.
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Old 09-27-2018, 07:30 PM   #48
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How far are we from a first playlist prototype? It could work as follows, as suggested before, here the most minimal suggestion:

- marker 'playlist' is where playlist will be arranged
- for each track, all items in arrange from left to right until marker playlist are counted and named a la buzz 0..9, a..z
- that's it, an excel table is used to enter values 0..9, a..z and those items will be placed in arrange after marker 'playlist'

- for simplicity, each excel cell could be 1 bar
- for simplicity, no muting yet
- for simplicity, no break yet


A more crazy, nowhere else available yet, playlist variant could work as follows:
- depending on the zoom level, above example with 1 bar
- any item longer than 1 bar will be named a la buzz, all shorter items will be ignored
- arrange will follow your excel entries
- if you change zoom level, e.g. shorten it to 1 beat instead of 1 bar, naming will be for all items longer than 1 beat, thus the arrange will also change accordingly, this is the crazy behaviour part, you could switch zoom levels, and listen to a new arranged variant. Crazy but why not, as an experimental feature?

For loop techno one could select e.g. 2 beat zoom level.

Additionally, the playlist could support, by default, logic like auto looping, also not available in normal buzz. Everything would auto-loop from excel cell starting position until 'playlist' + 10mins position. You can stop auto-loop by adding a break or another item value, thus the new item would auto-loop. This would remove the need to retype same value just for looping, nowaday we want loops anyway, mostly, in electronic music. At least with a tracker interface.

Last edited by TonE; 09-27-2018 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 10-02-2018, 02:22 AM   #49
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Something is in the making, cool.

https://github.com/JoepVanlier/Hacke...terns_exec.lua

Tried quickly v0.04 and v0.05, we have already the Excel table, great, thanks a lot sai'ke for starting also this!
- insert/backspace for shifting an item for 1 beat also works
- shifting in arrange shifts in Sequencer (of Hackey Patterns)
- items are called 'patterns', better would be simply using 'items' keeping Reaper conventions. UPDATE: NO, in hackey patterns, patterns are items + automation items, so it is more than only Reaper items. So this new term makes sense. One can imagine it as a pattern of a hardware sequencer like on (S)Elektron machines or Korg.
- we can add patterns, counting is 1-based, first pattern should use 0 however, like in buzz, not 1
- Still have to make sure that when patterns are deleted, the media item adjacent is also stretched to fill up the space. I guess this is for the auto-looping feature. Following action might help hopefully:
PHP Code:
CustomAUTO-LOOP
  Time selection
Set time selection to items
  Item
Split items at time selection
  Item
Glue items
  Script
kawa_MAIN_SetItemEndToNextItemStart_Type2.lua 
or only the last one, the kawa lua.

Last edited by TonE; 10-16-2018 at 08:13 AM. Reason: tested 0.04 of Hackey-Patterns, UPDATE on term pattern
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Old 10-04-2018, 10:02 AM   #50
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Hackey Machines needs a video. A video for Hackey Patterns would be too early.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUh8-iuDLhQ

Last edited by TonE; 10-04-2018 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 10-07-2018, 02:36 PM   #51
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A few more videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b6nBPB0VDU


Bad sound is part of the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M3XmjWVItM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX8LR3oOHyQ
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Old 10-08-2018, 02:42 AM   #52
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How you can have fun with hackey trackey and hackey patterns from genious sai'ke, using shortcircuit, inside Reaper DAW, the magic DAW, imitating jeskola buzz tracker functionality via lua scripts developed by master sai'ke. Thanks sai'ke! sai'ke rocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3il1jEt928
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:39 AM   #53
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A mixture of Atari ST Notator, Reaper and jeskola buzz. Wonderful world.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEQDyQ0vLv4

Last edited by TonE; 10-09-2018 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:07 AM   #54
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Hey Joep, master, friend,

a beautiful tune you have here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YbqgMrH1WY

One can hear immediately, it was made with love.
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:52 PM   #55
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Ghehe, thanks.

I did a lot of fixes and feature updates to this plug over the past few months. The main ones being:

- Added text outlines to help make text more readable.
- Added rmb on mute block solos track.
- Added extra F9 option for showing only routing of selected tracks.
- Added track color support.
- Added vertical layout mode (CTRL+F7). Note that this relies on you coloring your tracks in groups. Track with VCA in the name will always be placed at the top.
- Added word-wrapping for machine names.
- Show signal cable as active when manipulating signal
- Make doubleclick focus on first effect
- Suppress dialog when VST machine list doesn't exist
- Added modifier option to send audio to sidechain
- Added record arm toggle.
- Ctrl + doubleclick machine opens MPL Wiredchain (relies on it already being installed!)
- Alt + doubleclick opens FX window instead of just first effect
- Added ESC to close all floating windows (relies on SWS).
- Added a loader for the script (OpenMachineView.lua) which makes sure that the existing one regains focus or a new one is created when executed.
- Add signal flow highlighting
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:31 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by TonE View Post
Hey Joep, master, friend,

a beautiful tune you have here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YbqgMrH1WY

One can hear immediately, it was made with love.
I agree! The main piano is reminds me of the kAway buzz machine.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:57 AM   #57
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Ghehe thanks. I think I wrote that one not long after our family dog passed away.

I don't think it was the kAway actually. Just some imperfect sine sample where I had changed the position of a few samples. It was Jeskola Buzz tho'!

There's also a very slight fuzzy distortion on it with a pure wet delay. I think it was actually the cyanphase distortion. The buzzmachine that inspired the spline thing in filther.

I actually thought of remastering this one once, but the buzz file is b0rked. Ahhh good old buzz. You could work on a track as long as it would let you.

But back to machineview, maybe you can show what a project can look like in the linear view w/colors. I haven't really had a chance to work with it myself yet.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:29 AM   #58
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I actually thought of remastering this one once, but the buzz file is b0rked. Ahhh good old buzz. You could work on a track as long as it would let you.
I've used buzzhelper to fix buzz songs that stopped opening. If you're not familiar with it or can't find it, I can try to fix the file if you want.

It's only a small example, but I wanted to see if this could get non-buzz users excited. I think it's definitely not a niche tool if folks would give it a chance. Project example here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=214163
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Old 11-30-2018, 01:55 PM   #59
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Oh haven't seen this one before.Looks great,thank you!
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:27 AM   #60
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looks very cool, but i can't understand from GIF, what this script can actually do? I see some effects routed to master (master track?) Is this some kind of sophisticated fx routing or what?
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:12 PM   #61
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looks very cool, but i can't understand from GIF, what this script can actually do? I see some effects routed to master (master track?) Is this some kind of sophisticated fx routing or what?
It's just a way to visualize and manipulate the signal routing. It doesn't really add any new functionality, just a different way of representing it.

Shift + Drag connects devices for instance.
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Old Yesterday, 10:02 AM   #62
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Hello, I've been trying this script and really like it. There are some ideas I would like to share. These are based on a rock song first mixed with a standard workflow. As always, all of these are subjective.

- visually different arrows for master send vs fx sends, e.g. dashed line. A tree with only master/folder sends is linear and no visual line crossing is possible. With fx sends coming to play, the graph gets messy in 2D. Lines coming into and also out from send nodes should be dashed.

- highlight signal IN lines with modifier+mousehover. With a standard hover, highlight only OUT lines.

- machine nodes do not need shadows. They are cluttering the ui.

- calculate if the font is white or black based on the underlaying track's color. Do not use outlines/shadows.

- option to open FX chain (is that what "Open FX list should do?". It just opens the first fx, same as alt+doubleclick)

- hide wires does not work

- mousewheel over vol or pan know should change the value instead of sooming

- the mute button margin on a node is not changing with zooming, it is always set to a fixed number of pixels

- add a solo button to a node

- in night mode, node selection highlight could be light

- do not show tracks that have *separ* in the name of the layout

- better sorting of nodes. This is probably an advanced request. Later I can give some more ides about functionality.

That's it for now. Hope you'll find these useful.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #63
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- add a solo button to a node

- better sorting of nodes. This is probably an advanced request. Later I can give some more ides about functionality.
Right click the mute button.

ctrl+F7 to sort into columns. Sai'ke's taking a break from this project, but I planned to ask about smaller margins between and also a row sorting option. I think tightly clustered tracks of the same color could work for large projects as well. F12 key changes the shortcuts, so if you're in that mode, f8 hides the wires.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM   #64
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Right click the mute button.

ctrl+F7 to sort into columns. Sai'ke's taking a break from this project, but I planned to ask about smaller margins between and also a row sorting option. I think tightly clustered tracks of the same color could work for large projects as well. F12 key changes the shortcuts, so if you're in that mode, f8 hides the wires.
Thanks!

Regarding sorting, what I meant was to enhance the force sort mode (ctrl+enter).
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Old Yesterday, 11:47 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Lines coming into and also out from send nodes should be dashed.
I'm not a fan of dashed lines and I think it could look even more cluttered when there are many dashed lines crossing. What about different colors?

Quote:
- highlight signal IN lines with modifier+mousehover. With a standard hover, highlight only OUT lines.
yes, this would be cool and could use different colors here too.

Quote:
- machine nodes do not need shadows. They are cluttering the ui.
Haha, well it's like that in buzz, so that's why. I kinda like it, personally but maybe it's nostalgia. I was gonna suggest making them more transparent and further away though because I think it would look better. Perhaps it could be a variable that could be turned to 0 to remove them?

Quote:
- calculate if the font is white or black based on the underlaying track's color. Do not use outlines/shadows.
I think that's how it was before, but it was often very hard to see against the track colors, so it ended up like this. Right now the border is a bit extreme, and I was gonna suggest making it the same color as the background to smooth it out.

Quote:
- option to open FX chain (is that what "Open FX list should do?". It just opens the first fx, same as alt+doubleclick)
I had this problem too, but I don't anymore. Latest version?
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Old Today, 03:02 AM   #66
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I'm not a fan of dashed lines and I think it could look even more cluttered when there are many dashed lines crossing. What about different colors?
Yea, this might work too. And also maybe more transparent. This would need to be done and then asses.


Quote:
Haha, well it's like that in buzz, so that's why. I kinda like it, personally but maybe it's nostalgia. I was gonna suggest making them more transparent and further away though because I think it would look better. Perhaps it could be a variable that could be turned to 0 to remove them?
As many of my suggestions, this one is a pure UI design. Shadows was cool in the past. Since then we got used to computer screens and don't need shadows like this to relate ui to realworld elements. Also, a design by comitee is no good, that's why most Reaper scripts lacks a good design and it makes them harder to use, especially compared to its functionality. It's either done by an incompetent designer alone or with a collaboration with non-designers users.


Quote:
I think that's how it was before, but it was often very hard to see against the track colors, so it ended up like this. Right now the border is a bit extreme, and I was gonna suggest making it the same color as the background to smooth it out.
Same thing.
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Old Today, 09:08 AM   #67
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Shadows was cool in the past. Since then we got used to computer screens and don't need shadows like this to relate ui to realworld elements.
Ok this we'll have to disagree on then. I still think they are cool and can improve UI design when used tastefully. Our eyes still take cues from shadows and they do help differentiate elements. IMO all these new minimalistic, vector UI designs look childish, lazy and cluttered to me without some tasteful shadows. Maybe not here necessarily, but this is partly an homage to a tool from the past after all.
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Old Today, 09:21 AM   #68
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... this is partly an homage to a tool from the past after all.
I do not know the original software but the idea of node-based mixing seems like a good development towards future. I've recently started using Davinci Resolve, which is a color correction program with node-based workflow and this is similar.

It is basically adding the second dimension to a workflow. While the standard workflow is basically 1D - faders in a one row, this tool brings the whole workflow into 2D (and some day maybe 3D). The routing is much more simple to understand and everything fits better into mind imo. Of course there are cases when 1D is faster, one should have a choise based on a particular problem being addressed.

That's why I think this should not be considered as a remake or port of another software but rather as a further development of it.
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Old Today, 09:22 AM   #69
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I still think they are cool and can improve UI design when used tastefully.
Yes, that's up to a designer to decide and desing (which I am not). I'd be so glad if script (and also reaper) developers understood this problem of desing and that either they learn it or they collaborate with someone else.
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Old Today, 12:26 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Yes, that's up to a designer to decide and desing (which I am not). I'd be so glad if script (and also reaper) developers understood this problem of desing and that either they learn it or they collaborate with someone else.
White Tie (who creates the default themes and others) is a very talented and capable designer, as are many others in the community. But yea, there are still some rough spots and too much "programmer language." Sai'ke has taken most of my suggestions, which is why I'm chiming in on yours. Discussion should help get this tool as good as it can be.
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Old Today, 02:49 PM   #71
sai'ke
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I appreciate the suggestions.

I thought the words on the more general design of many plugs were a bit harsh to be honest. I think for a lot of plugs (including mine), it's simply the fact that most of these are hobby projects. People don't get paid to do these plugins and even relatively simple looking UIs already take a lot of development time. If you think we're not aware that the UIs don't look super slick, then you're mistaken. They're written under time limitations, prioritizing functionality over looks :P

Anyways, let's see what we got here:

Quote:
- visually different arrows for master send vs fx sends, e.g. dashed line. A tree with only master/folder sends is linear and no visual line crossing is possible. With fx sends coming to play, the graph gets messy in 2D. Lines coming into and also out from send nodes should be dashed.
I added the option to customize this. Personally, I prefer them to be the same, but I've added the alpha level as an exposed parameter that you can edit in the config file. They're called sendAlpha and parentAlpha. You can open the config file with CTRL+F10 on windows (and probably on mac/linux, but I couldn't test this). If CTRL+F10 doesn't work, the config file can be found in the Hackey Machines directory. Note that you have to close HM before saving the file (otherwise the plugin will overwrite your changes when you close it).

Quote:
- highlight signal IN lines with modifier+mousehover. With a standard hover, highlight only OUT lines.
This one took some doing, but it's a great idea. You can now hold Alt to switch between viewing incoming and outgoing lines.

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- machine nodes do not need shadows. They are cluttering the ui.
The config parameter is called shadowAlpha. shadowOffset can move the location of the box (for Fox).

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- calculate if the font is white or black based on the underlaying track's color. Do not use outlines/shadows.
Options for outlines were added too. In the config file set the parameter textOutline. 0 = inverse of bg color, 1 = outlined, 2 = white or black depending on bg color.

Quote:
- option to open FX chain (is that what "Open FX list should do?". It just opens the first fx, same as alt+doubleclick)
Yes, this is a known bug. It doesn't seem to happen for all VSTs (at least for me) and I've yet to figure out how to avoid this issue.

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- hide wires does not work
Can you describe what happens?

Quote:
- mousewheel over vol or pan know should change the value instead of sooming
Added ability to control dials via mousewheel and block zooming when this is done.

Quote:
- the mute button margin on a node is not changing with zooming, it is always set to a fixed number of pixels
Added option to keep it fixed. In the config file set muteButtonSize to a value larger than zero to have a fixed mute button size. Setting zero makes it scale automatically.

Quote:
- add a solo button to a node
As Fox said, outer mouse button on mute button.

Quote:
- in night mode, node selection highlight could be light
Done.

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- do not show tracks that have *separ* in the name of the layout
I don't know what you mean by this one.

Quote:
- better sorting of nodes. This is probably an advanced request. Later I can give some more ides about functionality.
I've added some extra forces to the graph optimization. Namely forces depending on color similarity. This should improve the clustering somewhat when using track colors.

Quote:
I planned to ask about smaller margins between and also a row sorting option.
I have introduced some presorting to the rows in the latest version, which looks whether the signal is moving down or not, and prefers them to move in the same direction and not skip a block (to try and prevent having signal cables _under_ blocks). If you have a better idea / pseudo-algorithm for this, please let me know. I also reduced the margins a bit.

Full changelog:
Quote:
+ Option for shadow alpha and offset (shadowAlpha & shadowOffset).
+ Option for setting text rendering (outline or not). 0 = inverse of bg color, 1 = outlined, 2 = white or black depending on bg color.
+ Added option to control dials by mousewheel.
+ Added option to fix mute button size (muteButtonSize, 0 is autosize, >0 is fixed size).
+ Highlight with light in night mode.
+ Improved look of arrow (solid).
+ Added options to modify alpha transparency of sends/parents (sendAlpha and parentAlpha).
+ Fixed annoying issues with highlighting wires that were under blocks.
+ Added extra penalty spring force between tracks that is driven by color similarity (to improve clustering by color).
+ Added small noise term to avoid local optima when running the force simulation.
+ Improved row sorting for linear layout (attempt to avoid sending signal backwards and attempt to skip more than 1 machine vertically).
+ Option to open configuration file from script (CTRL+F10). Warning: Close the machine view before you save it, or it gets overwritten.
+ Improved visibility signal flow on night theme (green-based highlighting to maintain visibility when using programs such as f.lux).
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Last edited by sai'ke; Today at 07:35 PM.
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Old Today, 03:27 PM   #72
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Hey Sai'ke. Mpl says GetSetTrackGroupMembership() can be used to get around that track group problem we were having with the VCA tracks. If you have some extra time could you check it out? Only major issue for me rn, but I've got a little list of minor suggestions whenever you're ready. Thanks dude! I appreciate your work!
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Old Today, 07:24 PM   #73
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Ah yes, thanks. The binary mask threw me off when I saw that command at first, but given the 64 groups and the high and low command, it makes sense now. Mute and solo should respect grouping matrix now (0.67).

You can post 'em here. I don't know yet when I'll get to them, but my inbox has become a mess that's getting harder and harder to search
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Old Today, 07:56 PM   #74
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I love you man.
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Old Today, 09:45 PM   #75
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Few bugs:

Ok, so grouping is working for mute but nothing else. Normally VCA automatically covers volume and pan, but I also enable solo and mute when I make the groups because that's handy. Only mute works rn.

When hitting solo/mute button on VCA master with no slave tracks:
...R\Scripts\Routing tools\MachineView\MachineView_exec.lua:4069: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil)is working for

When connecting some VCA master tracks to the project master track:
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