Old 12-24-2015, 12:12 AM   #1
Vertigo Pulse
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Default Midi Input Quantize for Live Performance Please

What can I do to get reaper to input quantize to the next beat ala latch mode in omnisphere 2 or the input quantize performance script in kontakt?

Is there a script someone has for this? Why is this not in reaper by now? Ableton does this.
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:57 AM   #2
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I don't suppose this makes any sense, as "live qantizing" can't look ahead and hence impose a huge delay, making it unusable.

-Michael

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Old 12-24-2015, 01:09 AM   #3
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believe me it makes sense hence why omnisphere, kontakt, ableton do it...
If you have an arpeggiator set to "trigger" and your not dead on then it will fall off the beat. If you latch it to say the next quarter note or eighth note then you press early and it will latch on to the incoming beat and start with dead computer like accuracy to the temp. Some people want this.

Hell mobius VST does this.

Another example. You have wav drum loops and you are playing live and want to trigger it exactly on time to tempo. Simply latch it to the next 1/4 or bar in this example and tap the pad or whatever you have your midi set to trigger the loop... measure finishes on to next bar and snap drum loop triggers exactly on time.

Please this does make sense, those people who perform live will understand why this is necessary this is not a deabte of why this feature is good or not. It makes sense trust me.

How do you do it in reaper? You can do it in other programs and the level of scripting available in reaper makes it seem like a no brainer...
why hasn't anyone made this easy to do?
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:57 AM   #4
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There's input quantize in track record settings...
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:03 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
There's input quantize in track record settings...
Yes, but that doesn't work as it should to be able to use for live performance (imo at least), because the sound triggering is not quantized as opposed to Ableton Live for example (sounds are triggered immediately with incoming MIDI and not delayed according to input quantize settings, only the MIDI recording is).

edit:
To be fair though, it's labeled under "Track recording settings", so not intended for live performance in the first place but which brings us back to OP's point, input quantize which would be useable for live performance is missing currently in Reaper.

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Old 12-24-2015, 05:00 AM   #6
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Yes, but that doesn't work as it should to be able to use for live performance ...
Reaper is a DAW, so it in fact is not "natively" intended or live usage. Only because of it's excellent programmability via several open APIs it's excellently usable as the basis for creating tools that serve multiple purposes. E.g. Live playing (using SWS Live Configs and other add-ons: I do this all the time), controlling Lighting (a friend of mine developed a hardware / software product that uses Reaper as a production tool for combined Sound & Light performances as well live (Music / Theater) as recorded (Dioramas / Snoozel-Rooms), etc.

If that is really viable, quantizing Midi signals (i.e. delay note-on messages according to midi timing massages) can be done in a plugin to be placed in a track's effect chain (JSFX -> easily doable as a script, but rather Reaper specific, or VST -> needs C language programming but will be installable everywhere).

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...is missing currently in Reaper
Yep. Like so much other stuff somebody might wants to get for Christmas

-Michael

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Old 12-24-2015, 05:48 AM   #7
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In this thread Schwa posted a link to a plugin called "MIDIquantize.dll". Its purpose was, if I understand correctly, exactly what you requested.

So Schwa, if you read this ... I'd be interested, too!
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:08 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
In this thread Schwa posted a link to a plugin called "MIDIquantize.dll". Its purpose was, if I understand correctly, exactly what you requested.

So Schwa, if you read this ... I'd be interested, too!
Thanks, at first I got a little excited but...

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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Technically I think it could even work as input quantize but you wouldn't want to listen to it while recording because of the super high latency required to allow enough buffer to move notes backwards.
As I see it (without admittedly having tested it yet) this plugin is actually 'too ambitious' (sorry, couldn't come up with something else) for what's requested here, as it would only need to 'delay' note on's (move forward) and not move 'backwards in time' (or in OP's words "to input quantize to the next beat" or for me rather bar) , hence I'd think it wouldn't even need a buffer.

Last edited by nofish; 12-24-2015 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 12-24-2015, 09:38 AM   #9
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untested: https://web.archive.org/web/20150811...f_beatsync.zip
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Old 12-24-2015, 10:26 AM   #10
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how do people still not understand how this works?????
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Old 12-24-2015, 10:52 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
how do people still not understand how this works?????
What exactly? Hitting a key 1/8th before the beat in order to start a predefined sampled sequence? Why should it NOT work? It actually does in the mentioned scriptable instruments, and I've used it on stage, so: merry x-mas
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Old 12-24-2015, 11:43 AM   #12
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i mean that every single time this request comes up, people are clueless as to how this works in other applications, or how it's useful and important to non solo-guitarist-with-a-computer live performance. it's a failure of imagination or critical thinking, and each time i see this unfulfilled request i'm increasingly frustrated with this silly time travel talk about "quantizing into the future" when that's obviously not the request, or as if the requester doesn't understand what they are asking for.

live input quantize is one of REAPER's major setbacks to being more usable for electronic musicians who just glom on to the ableton train because every other asshole uses it. literally, this stupidly simple feature (attainable by end user through very dumb vsti workarounds, by the way) is holding REAPER back from a significant chunk of the DAW market.

reaper's forum demographic seems to skew far away from the genres that are currently making money. i think this is a very real problem for an awesome product.

my MPC1000 has a shitty processor that was used in early flip phones, and it can still do input quantize.

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Old 12-24-2015, 11:52 AM   #13
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Sure, but honestly: the wording (or the lack of it) in the OP was pretty unclear at first.
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Old 12-24-2015, 02:14 PM   #14
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OK guys thanks for the replies. Honestly, I want this to be a heated discussion because in my opinion it seems like a very simple feature to implement or to get a legit SWS script for it. It would be pretty awesome to get this pushed to a full fledged feature or update in the daw. I think there would be a HUGE response back for the electronic producers out there. Im sure it would actually sell a few more licenses for that one feature alone.

I made sure to put examples of other software that can do this so that I could be clear of what I am looking for in case my written spec doesn't read well.

Omnisphere 2 latch feature...set it to next beat then hit a note... see what happens?

Kontakt load up a loop in a library and run the performance script "input quantize" then hit a note...see what happens?

And I am talking about PERFORMANCE input quantize. NOT recording input quantize!!

And PLEASE if your response is going to be.. that doesnt make any sense.. or midi cant read into the future or reaper already has an input quantize... then you need not apply and you don't get it. Your post will be irrelevant and a waste of both our time.

I know this reply is coming off as dickish but I feel it has to be. I too am SO frustrated in every forum post (this isnt the only one) on this topic its always the same response from people who do not get it.

Yet it seems to be such a simple and basic scripting deal.
and if its not... if its a big cluster of code to get that to work.. I'll take those lumps. But from what I understand it isnt and it would be HUGE for performers like me.

Sorry had to rant there. I mean no ill will. I'm just human and frustrated.
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Old 12-24-2015, 02:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
crashed...

Reaper 5.1 64 bit
window 7 64
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
live input quantize is one of REAPER's major setbacks
What is wrong with using a dedicated VST for that purpose. (Reaper also does not come with a piano sound for live playing with a band.)

I do agree that it would be "nice" if the Reaper distribution would include such a (supposedly rather simple) thing (just like it does include lots of other very useful effect plugins). But I don't think this is a "feature of a DAW". I understand that it technically is a "Midi effect" usable in certain dedicated situations and hence it should be treated as such.

-Michael

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Old 12-24-2015, 05:20 PM   #17
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What is wrong with using a dedicated VST for that purpose. (Reaper also does not come with a piano sound for live playing with a band.)

I do agree that it would be "nice" if the Reaper distribution would include such a (supposedly rather simple) thing (just like it does include lots of other very useful effect plugins). But I don't think this is a "feature of a DAW". I understand that it technically is a "Midi effect" usable in certain dedicated situations and hence it should be treated as such.

-Michael
Again... I'm not debating anything about the topic. My OP is how is it done. I am painfully aware it is not out of the box in reaper. But with all this customization scripting, themeing and user plug ins... Im just reaching out there to see if someone has an valid input on achieving this.

On reaper's HOMEPAGE: REAPER supports a vast range of hardware, digital formats and plugins, and can be comprehensively extended, scripted and modified.


So again IM not interested in what should or should not be in a DAW. Its in Ableton so it is possible. And that's enough proof for me to rant on about wanting it in Reaper. In fact the only Reason Im crying for this is because this is Reaper... arguably the most adaptable piece of DAW kit in the entire market. Doesn't DAW stand for digital audio workstation? Makes sense to me.

If Im not mistaken that post referenced here for the midiquantize.dll plug was made in 2007! You would think by now someone would have figured this out and taken my money.
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Old 12-24-2015, 05:24 PM   #18
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PS... what 64bit VST does this? I would be happy to entertain that but I can;t seem to find anything. I would love to know what VST you're talking about.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Vertigo Pulse View Post
PS... what 64bit VST does this? I would be happy to entertain that but I can;t seem to find anything. I would love to know what VST you're talking about.
I did not try "nf_BetSync" -> http://www.midiplugins.com/plugin/?id=208, mentioned above (and not even try to find "MIDIQuantize"). But if it's not a 64 bit VST this is not a problem at all, as on 64 bit environments, Reaper out of the box (i.e. without installing JBridge, as many other VST Host programs would need) supports both 32 and 64 bit plugins.

-Michael

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Old 12-25-2015, 07:52 AM   #20
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First - I understand completely what you're trying to do.

And there are always users astonished at the lack of "X" vital feature.

Incidentally, Ableton "Live" is a bit misleading, as they expect you to have previously cut and prepared all of your audio into neat chunks before playing "live".

Thus you can't even pre-set an audio loop's length in Ableton to record into - that just didn't enter their worldview. Musicians playing live non-midi instruments weren't considered, and it shows.

With that in mind, maybe it's unrealistic to expect certain more specifically "live" functions as standard in any DAW.
__

It's arguably as much a function of whatever sequencer or VSTi you're using as a function of a DAW, especially a DAW built originally for studio recording.

From yet another angle, it could be a function expected of your footswitch.

There's a piz midi "sequencer/bag of tricks" called MidiLooper in 64bit that can apparently start on the first beat of the next bar - though the developer seems to have stopped updating in 2012. Maybe it's worth a try, I dunno, and I kind of lost interest in this area and use Ableton for stuff like that if needed.

http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/?p=midiLooper

I understand there are difficulties too - buffers in software cause problems with sync.

Maybe if cockos provided this "look-ahead" function, the next thing people would complain about is the inevitable loss of sync over time? I dunno.
___

This next bit is kind of related......

A few years back I investigated the possibility of building a midi footswitch board which could sync to a DAW and send synced start messages exactly like you require (but also stop messages, in order to "close" loops - the length of which could be set by the user. It was inspired by the lack of this aforementioned function in both Ableton and Bitwig).

I've no technical knowledge on this whatsoever, but I noticed online that arduinos can sync to midi, and that they can also send midi messages, so I contacted a professor of music technology who does related work and he was sure it could be done....but the price for his time was too much for me.

I also contacted various manufacturers to see if it was something their configurable midi boards could do, but none of them could (this was 2 or 3 years ago).

In the end I got the feeling that I could end up losing money, and that if it was such a popular demand as you say then someone would probably have manufactured a midi-syncable configurable pedalboard which could be used on both DAWs and hardware.
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Old 12-25-2015, 09:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
And there are always users astonished at the lack of "X" vital feature.
Exactly.

In fact I had been just there some time ago. My request was that Reaper should switch track mutes and Plugin parameters on Program Change Midi messages sent from my master keyboard.

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Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
With that in mind, maybe it's unrealistic to expect certain more specifically "live" functions as standard in any DAW.
Obviously, additionally the terminology users speak, differs widely. For me, "live" playing as nothing to do whatsoever with what Abelton provides. It's just using VSTi's like "real" Keyboard or Wind instruments.

Of course a DAW is not "natively" intended to be able to do such stuff.

I needed several weeks of discussion in these forums until I found out that Reaper in fact can do it (including using Program change appropriately) perfectly with the help of some appropriate plugins, available for free just around the corner.

So I am extremely happy with Reaper, and to show this I wrote a documentation on how to do this for those who might be interested.


Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
I've no technical knowledge on this whatsoever, but I noticed online that arduinos can sync to midi, and that they can also send midi messages, so I contacted a professor of music technology who does related work and he was sure it could be done....but the price for his time was too much for me.
(Even though I would be able to build such a thingy...) In fact I don't think that it makes sense to built hardware for this. There are several midi food pedals available, that can be used for such purpose, just sending any useful trigger signal into Reaper.

Now Reaper can host a plugin (VST or JSFX-script) that receives the signal from the food pedal (and the midi and/or audio stream to work on). What function exactly to you want to see ? Maybe it's rather easy to do..

-Michael

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Old 12-25-2015, 10:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
(Even though I would be able to build such a thingy...) In fact I don't think that it makes sense to built hardware for this. There are several midi food pedals available, that can be used for such purpose, just sending any useful trigger signal into Reaper.
Not to sync with a DAW and send configurable beat-based "start" or "start then stop after X Bars" messages there aren't (not 2 years ago, and likely not now).

Quote:
Now Reaper can host a plugin (VST or JSFX-script) that receives the signal from the food pedal (and the midi and/or audio stream to work on). What function exactly to you want to see ? Maybe it's rather easy to do..

-Michael
The function mentioned by the OP is to start a midi synth VST on the first beat of the next bar.. ...or, similarly, to start on the next beat or whatever.

The arduino I was talking about was to do the same initially......to send a message to start recording on next Bar, then another message to end recording after X Bars (multiples of 1 Bar....2Bars....4Bars....whichever is chosen).

The idea being that you could have a midi pedal with footswitches for "1 Bar loop"....or 2 Bar loop.....etc (and/or X2 and ÷2 switches) so that the whole upcoming loop-record process could be executed by one press anytime inside of the previous bar.

My idea wasn't for Reaper - it was for Ableton, as it's useful for looping to trigger and set the length of a loop ahead of time, and without having to interrupt your playing to send an "end loop" message.

As I said, it's still not implemented in Ableton (afaik) partly because playing live and looping on "real" instruments didn't enter their mind. You can do this in midi clips in Ableton, but not audio clips.

I emailed Bitwig in the months before their public Beta to ask if this feature was planned - I've seen many people ask over the years for it in Ableton.

Bitwig were good enough to send a detailed reply (on that and other features) - but unfortunately saying that it wouldn't be any time soon. So obviously audio loops that aren't pre-made didn't enter their thinking on "live" playing in a loop-based environment either.

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Old 12-25-2015, 11:14 AM   #23
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Thanks for the info. Reaper is awesome with or without this feature. It's ability to be 3rd party scripted and manipulated is one of its best aspects and the reason why I am asking for this feature.

Maybe realistically I was hoping for some programmed 3rd party stuff.

In kontakt its a script.
INcoming note-->delay playback--->1/4, 1/2, 1/1 ,(follow midi clock temp) until release.
The kontakt script is actually pretty lean.

In omnisphere its a little drop down menu. Makes it so much better to play against a running drum beat with the arpeggiator.

I thought maybe someone out there had this under their belt. Unfortunately the beatsync crashed and I cannot find midiquantize.dll anywhere

Maybe SWS will get something going for this. Or maybe someone does know of a VST that does this. I read somewhere that Bidule might be able to achieve this but I don't want to install the demo unless I know that feature is really there.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:43 AM   #24
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bidule can do it, but any vst solution is going to be clumsy for this purpose because 1, you'd either have to drop the same vsti on every single relevant track's input fx filter, or 2, you'd have to create 1 single input track for your controller, drop the input on it, send midi from the input track to your instrument tracks, and then record midi output if you're lucky and none of your plugins eat the midi signal. a real hassle for a feature that is native in other daws and programs.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:03 PM   #25
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Default Clip Launching is what he means

I didn't read all the replies, but this isn't called input quantizing, it's called "clip launching" and it's a performance mode recently offered in FL Studio and Ableton Live and programs like that. Reaper is an editing and composing DAW more than a live performance DAW, and the feature wasn't available in most conventional DAWs until Live showed up anyhow. I wouldn't expect it to show up anytime soon but if you really want it, instead of complaining where it will never be heard, at it to the actual Feature Request subforum on this site, not in this General Discussion area.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:05 PM   #26
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yeah Ive been looking at bidule. Looks confusing as hell hahaha.

Damn it would be AWESOME to be able to check a little box in the input quantize reaper menu and have it set to "enable input quantize for live monitoring"

I be you would get a lot of people off that ableton trip if they new reaper could do it.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus View Post
I didn't read all the replies, but this isn't called input quantizing, it's called "clip launching" and it's a performance mode recently offered in FL Studio and Ableton Live and programs like that. Reaper is an editing and composing DAW more than a live performance DAW, and the feature wasn't available in most conventional DAWs until Live showed up anyhow. I wouldn't expect it to show up anytime soon but if you really want it, instead of complaining where it will never be heard, at it to the actual Feature Request subforum on this site, not in this General Discussion area.


Then why is it called input quantize in kontakt?

And launching a clip is not always the desired scenario. Sometimes you want to have an arpeggiator trigger dead on to the beat. Ever had an arpeggiator be slightly off and it sounds like a flam against the down beat?

Anyway, i posted this here to see if anyone had any suggestions how to do this. Im a rookie at Reaper but a veteran using daws. Thought someone might know something i didnt on this topic.

I'll post as a feature request anyway.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertigo Pulse View Post
Damn it would be AWESOME to be able to check a little box in the input quantize reaper menu and have it set to "enable input quantize for live monitoring"
I think that wouldn't even be necessary - if we actually heard the result of the quantizing in realtime, I would be happy with that. So: "Quantize input" could/should be the same for the recorded Midi item as for the live monitoring, no extra tick box necessary IMO.
FR?
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:38 PM   #29
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I think that wouldn't even be necessary - if we actually heard the result of the quantizing in realtime, I would be happy with that. So: "Quantize input" could/should be the same for the recorded Midi item as for the live monitoring, no extra tick box necessary IMO.
FR?
Agreed. I suppose there would be no point in having it as an option to monitor if that was in itself the desired result and you were already monitoring the live output.
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:14 PM   #30
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Checkit
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Ia..._quantize.jsfx

You'll need this file in the same directory
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Ia...y-lib.jsfx-inc

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Old 08-29-2018, 12:23 AM   #31
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File not found on the last one, unfortunately.
I'm looking for the same thing as OP - been using Ableton for a long time to play live, but always used Reaper for mixing acoustic stuff. I want to move over to Reaper 100% as Ableton, esp. with MaxForLive, is unstable.
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:18 AM   #32
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Edited second link above, give it a shot now and let me know how you like it?
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:32 AM   #33
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how did i miss this last time?? will check it out and report back.

btw there was also something called pushbike by ijijn, a user who has since disappeared.
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FR: select midi recorded in most recent engagement of record/overdub.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:21 AM   #34
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this is great. works as expected, and thanks for considering the noteoffs.

if one is writing a monophonic melody line, they might want to not send noteoffs, and use js: "midi serial killer" which will send a noteoff after receiving the next note's noteon.

FR: toggle slider for "note repeat" ala the MPC series. this param, while toggled, would retrigger one note at every quantize value until the plugin receives a noteoff for that note.

https://youtu.be/OTIliiNXL0s

in case my language wasn't clear, here's ~20 seconds of relevant tutorial from an MPC video.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:28 AM   #35
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Could always learn to play an instrument in time...

(Only posting this as a tongue-in-cheek windup, not to be taken seriously)
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:45 AM   #36
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why use vsts lol just learn how to play every instrument ever
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:36 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preferred.nomenclature View Post
Thank you for this!! This is exactly what I was asking for! I hope more people find this. I am glad I checked back on this 3 years later haha!
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