Old 12-11-2018, 12:00 AM   #1
bhuether
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Default Alternative to Stretch Markers?

Been experimenting with stretch markers on acoustic guitar and it starts sounding pretty bad even with moderate stretching. In Reaper does anyone know of an equivalent to stretch marking, but which actually works like slip editing, so that some overlap and cross fading is being added to reduce artifacts?

Here is what I think would be a great algorithm to automate this sort of editing:

1. Detect points where timing needs to be corrected. So, user would specify the points, or transient detection could be starting point and then some manual adjustment, but the end goal of this step is to just have markers where you need them. Something like dynamic split.
2. For each sliced part boundary, specify if it needs to move left or right and specify the correct place to align to, or have this be automatic based on grid quantization or something.
3. Now that you know where each slice needs to be moved to, loop through each slice and adjust, applying time stretching as needed, and applying cross fade at overlaps.

Anyway, I think something like this would sound beter than stretch markers since to my ears it sounds like stretch markers are not applying cross fading internally...

thanks,

Brian
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:22 AM   #2
Philbo King
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I have found stretch markers work without adding glitches if you open the transient detection window and check the zero-crossing checkbox, then use the actions 'go to next transient' (and previous transient) to set the marker locations.

I leave the transient dialog window open while doing this so I can hover the cursor over the sliders and adjust them with the mouse wheel.

You can safely drop stretches anywhere there is no audio.
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:52 AM   #3
RDBOIS
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Try changing the Pitch Shift/Time Stretch Mode setting.

You can do that in the Main Project Setting or better yet in the Item Properties. I say better yet, because I found that each instrument will react differently to the stretching operation. Therefore, you may not want to rely on the entire Project Setting, but on a case by case - thus going to Item Property.

You can do that by selecting the Item in the track, right click mouse and choosing Item properties. Then, find Pitch Shift/Time Stretch Mode setting - it should say Project default. Try changing Elastic Pro or something else. Also try add a check mark in the Optimize for tonal control box.

This stuff is very subtle. You'll need to put headphones and listen very hard. I've played around these setting for many hours in order to find what is best for vocals, best for guitar, etc. It's not a magic cure, but a little bit better is better - yes? Trust me, it does make a difference.

Also, fixing a the timing of an instrument with stretch marks is an art form. You can't just go putting a marker here and there and stretch thinking it will always fix things without a glitch. You got to learn where is a better spot to put a marker to do the least amount of damage. There is a breaking point - when you stretch too much - there is some fluttering or other sound artifacts.

Other times you may want to split the track and move pieces around. This typically works best for areas that don't have too many notes in a bar, or where silences occur between melody lines. For example, if chord strum is a bit late you split before and after the strum and drag that piece of audio forward. Reaper will automatically cross merge the front part of the audio piece with the one in front, but you will have a hole (empty space) in the back. Simple lengthen the track front of back end to cross over. If you can't because there is not enough silent space in the audio split a piece of silence from another place in the song or add small bit of empty track and rest it in that hole (empty space).

It took me approximately two year to become a Master Jedi of the stretch mark, split, drag, and edit to perfection audio signals to fit with the time signature without any artifacts. I can now literally record bits of guitar, bass, etc. and create a full song that sounds like it was done in one take. This is very practical. I don't have to stress about getting perfect takes, don't have to mess around with punch in-out, don't have to go back and record so much, can position audio to fit with the beats and even a bit off to make it sound more 'human', and more importantly I can re-arrange a song and test out several song options. It is almost like building a song with samples, but it is closer to a live recording.

Having said that, if you reach a breaking point and get too many artifacts then it's time to re-track the instrument. If you can't retrack, then see if you can't 'borrow' a piece of guitar track from another spot in the song and copy-paste it where it is needed (i.e. sampling method as described above). Songs are very OCD-like - there is almost always a repetition of a chord somewhere.

I hope this helps?
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:35 AM   #4
pingosimon
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If artifacts are your main problem, yes, definitely go into item settings and change a few things under " Take pitch shift/time stretch mode". Here are my settings, just to give you a starting point:

Electric lead guitar: Elastique Soloist, Monophonic, window of 6.0ms, optimize for tonal content

Electric bass: Elstique Soloist, Monophonic, window of about 10ms, optimize for tonal content

General (ie, slowing down a full recording): Elastique Pro, or Soundtouch.
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