Recording acoustic guitar: fixing muffled, quiet audio

[NotADoctor]

I wanna try my hand at recording acoustic guitar with a Samson C03U condenser microphone I had laying around. Here's a reference recording:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6...ndpZk53M3ZjaWM

This is a raw recording, all I did was normalize the audio. I was playing around with a combination of ReaComp (to reduce the dynamic range, since a couple of peaks seem to be keeping the overall recording quiet), ReaEQ (to fix the muffled audio by boosting certain ranges) and a limiter (in hopes of further pushing the overall volume while preventing distortion). I played around with them but I cannot get a satisfying sound out of it. The end result - which I ended up making with a combination of non-destructive editing through Reaper and some destructive editing through Audacity - still sounds fairly quiet and muffled.

Which FX configuration would you apply to improve the recording? Or do I need to change the way I record to get better results? Screenshots of an FX chain with specific settings for each FX node would be pretty awesome, but I'll take any general advice. Based on your answers, I'd like to extrapolate this to a general workflow for recording acoustic guitar with my microphone.

[karbomusic]

What mic position and mic type are you using, that's first and foremost to get right before any FX or post correction.

[NotADoctor]

Here's how I used it (screengrab from a video recording):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B63...A0Y1NlRE0/view

I didn't paid close attention to the positioning. I think I used the Super Cardioid pickup pattern. I might have used it the wrong way around, not sure. How feasible is it to fix this in post? What mic position and pickup pattern would you recommend for future recordings?

[jrk]

I've never used one of these mics, it might well be the wrong way round. [edit, nope, if that's the pattern switch we can see, it's probably OK] Also, right in front of the soundhole probably isn't the best spot. There's lots of way to mic ac guitar see here: http://cambridge-mt.com/rs-lmp-acgtr01.htm


I think you'll struggle to get a good sound if you haven't got it right at the start.
Try again?

[karbomusic]

I don't know which mic that is (or I overlooked) but could be facing wrong as well as get it away from the sound hole. Check out these two videos for some great tips on micing. Just look over the marketing aspect since it's the positions/micing in general that really matter here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aivxxQLK9Qw

A little distance is great if your room sounds good. If the room isn't treated or doesn't sound good you become limited as to how creatively you can mic and end up micing defensively instead - I'm confident you can improve what you have though.

[NotADoctor]

Interesting video series. I tried out some other mic positions, but still couldn't get rid of that muffled sound. On top of that, I found a YouTube video of a guy playing acoustic guitar with my Samson C03U and it sounds decent - even when the mic is placed near the soundhole. So at first sight it looks like this guy is doing just fine with a similar setup. Strange.

I also tried turning the microphone around, but I think I was already recording in the right direction. I'm at a bit of a loss here. I will keep trying to play around with the mic positions, but I feel like I'm still missing a piece of the puzzle. Maybe the guitar's build quality isn't good enough, the room acoustics are getting in the way, I'm not listening right, I'm expecting results that normally require FX adjustments... I guess I will need to keep experimenting until I hopefully hit the sweet spot then.

[karbomusic]

I hate videos shot at such angles as you can't tell the distance but my guess is at least 18 inches based on the size of the top of the mic contrasted against the size of the sound hole but could be wrong.

More importantly the advice is more about not pointed at the sound hole while in front of the sound hole. Obviously, the farther back the less this matters. Good luck though and keep trying different positions.

[lvjmusic]

IMHO a fast way to isolate the muffled effect is to do test recordings with various mic positions. The photos from the Cambridge site above will give you some ideas for placement. Based on the description and the photo, the mic might be capturing room reflections and causing a phasing issue between the live guitar audio and the sound bouncing from the room's walls. We'd normally not notice these as our ear is nowhere near the mic capsule which 'hears' the sound. You should be able to find a 'sweet spot' for the mic to sit where the room's characteristics reinforce the clarity instead of reducing it. Good luck!

[jrk]

maybe the mic's broken?

[dug dog]

This was quick and dirty but will give you some idea of what is possible. Insert ReaXComp and hit the plus button in its interface and then Import VST Patch/Bank file.

Doc Teed Guitar.FXP

[tagomagomyeggo]

I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm not a techhead or anything, and I spend a lot of time trying to get to "garbage in = gold out" in post (where I don't know what I'm doing either). But I feel like this is more or less what you are looking for (see linked mp3). (This was done in two seconds but I would normally spend hours more tweaking it through my speakers and various headphones.) This is also now a wav form (well, mp3) with lots of headroom, so plenty of room to jack it up if needed. Now that it sounds like it's out from under the pillow, you can hear some interesting static-y noise (easily removed with a de-noiser) that sounds like it's connection related, but with no real room hiss (or tone), suprisingly. So I feel like maybe it's partly the way your mic is getting into your computer--not nearly enough gain, bad connection...something like that. It almost seems like a preamp you are using is a) insufficiently boosting gain and b) smothering the mic with room-killing eq. This is of course on top of probable bad placement of the mic (turn up the monitoring loud in your headphones as you move it around so you can hear the differences live). And maybe you need a preamp and aren't using one, which actually is what it really sounds like, and which will make it hard to hear your monitoring to compare positions.

If you like the eq-ing I have done I can post a screenshot (again, it's just a random start), but it would probably make everyone else throw up with how wrong-mindedly it has been accomplished. And maybe this is not a good sound to you anyway...but hopefully all this helps a little!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/29ih19wcr6...0test.mp3?dl=0

[dug dog]

Originally Posted by tagomagomyeggo

...but hopefully all this helps a little!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/29ih19wcr6...0test.mp3?dl=0

LOL. Great screen name, eggo!
If we each help a little...........
An EQ solution is a good addition or alternative to my multi band comp thing which, as offered, leaves WAY too much of that nasty buzz thing.
So, yeah, OP, you've seen two possible solutions to the mud situation but yon buzz doth remain yours truly.

[dug dog]

Also:

Context matters.... In a busy mix, that buzz might even ADD something.....

AND, if you can't get rid of the buzz, I think Eggo's EQ thing sounds pretty good.

[tagomagomyeggo]

Thanks dug dog..I don't really know what is being done here with your ReaXComp thing (I've never used a compressor, apart from simple hard limiting once in a while...I lke to draw volume envelopes by hand and did not realize I could tinker with EQ through a compressor), but it sounds good and leaves more presence on the lower end than I did. I will have to sort this out at some point as a tool I need to learn.

I definitely think that intermittent buzz is probably related to whatever jack the signal is getting into the computer through (assuming not USB).

At any rate, while I would attack it with an editor outside of Reaper, it looks like if that is not an option ReaFIR does an okay job removing it. I have no idea what this thing is either, but after googling I set the mode to subtract and brought the line all the way down to -110, raising it to around -92db in the higher frequencies to eliminate the buzz. I had a hard time balancing the removal with certain portions sounding over processed, but once you got the best compromise you could use a Wet FX envelope to duck the effect out when needed. It also puts a little warmth back from my EQ. In any event someone who actually knows how to use it could probably target it better. But I suspect boosting the signal at the point it comes into the PC (if that's what's being used), combined with a higher end EQ before that point, will drop that electrofuzz down to nothing, as it would not be getting boosted into prominence later with the radical EQ shaping.

[NotADoctor]

maybe the mic's broken?

Is there an easy way to test that theory? I made a quick voice recording here if that helps (unprocessed audio rendered to MP3):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B63...9pLXMxbDQ/view

This was quick and dirty but will give you some idea of what is possible. Insert ReaXComp and hit the plus button in its interface and then Import VST Patch/Bank file.

I like the way that sounds, dug dog! I might have to experiment with multiband compression some more now. How did you figure out which frequency ranges you needed and what their thresholds should be?

So I feel like maybe it's partly the way your mic is getting into your computer--not nearly enough gain, bad connection...something like that.

Is there any way of testing this? I recorded on a 2015-era MacBook Air with a USB cable I've had for ages while it wasn't hooked up to its charger (yes, my mic gets power from USB), so it doesn't sound implausible.

If you like the eq-ing I have done I can post a screenshot

Sure! I'm not good at finding settings that sound somewhat decent, so I'm eager to see your workflow!

The background noise isn't too much of a dealbreaker for me, but eventually I'd like to get better at doing noise reduction as well. I'm happy just getting the guitar part to sound decent right for now. I'll keep ReaFIR in mind, though!

[vdubreeze]

I generally never aim the mic at the sound hole, as it's not designed as the place where the sound comes from. It's a hole that the pressure can escape from but it's not pushing forth the sound we're hearing. (Don't get me started about under saddle pickups providing what it sounds like 1/4 " from the string under the bridge : )) And also, though it goes against some logic, aiming it toward the bridge, where the pick is hitting, the high end content gets overwhelmed by the base response of that part of the body. Try aiming it at the fret board right where the neck meets the body. And then try an inch or two toward the soundhole but still directly at the frets. Depending on the guitar it may sound best up close or six inches or more backed off, but it gets roomier and less intimate the further back you take it. But a condenser fairly close in aimed right at where the neck meets the body is my go-to position for a single mic'd acoustic.

Try it like this : )

[tagomagomyeggo]

It looks like people mostly use that mic for voiceover...so I'm guessing it has a noise floor that stays low because you have to have the thing right in front of your mouth...Make sure your input levels are set high to accomodate that, and realize that having it close will result in bassy, muddy frequencies, and having it far...well, you will not get as much signal. I'm quite possibly wrong so someone should correct me on that if so. But try to find a happy medium, again by listening very loudly to the live monitoring in headphones as you shift the thing around to experiment.

Here's the EQ; bear in mind this probably violates all kinds of reasonable principles (which I don't mind if people express alarm over, feel free)...for starters, using two eq filters. I just like to sometimes. I also just move things around and if it seems ok I leave it there, so I'm sure there are some head-scratching choices I'm showing. If you ask me, feel free to make bold, violent moves with raising higher frequencies in a situation like this--go past where you are trying to get, and then bring it back.

EDIT: Having listened to the voice test, it sounds perfect for what it is meant for: USB podcasting type voice recording. You are just working against its strengths for the afforementioned reasons, but there's no reason you can't find a way to make it work for you.

[jrk]

Sounds like the mic's fine. You have to remember that big EQ boosts will also bring up noise. This is why positioning is so important - it's the way of controlling the sound without boosting the noise (OK, long distances will effectively increase noise, but you know what I mean).

I'd do just what vdubreeze suggests.

[dug dog]

Originally Posted by NotADoctor

I like the way that sounds, dug dog! I might have to experiment with multiband compression some more now. How did you figure out which frequency ranges you needed and what their thresholds should be?

I used the default crossover points in ReaXcomp and pretty much just guessed at how much gain reduction to use on each band. LOL. Like I said, quick and dirty.....

[Twangothan]

The thing about EQIng is it needs to be in the context of the mix, so getting it to sound how you want in solo might still not work in the mix. I'd try turning up the gain on the track a bit then EQ in the mix. Also look to cut the frequencies which are causing the muffled sound as much as boosting others. A hypercardioid mic is a bit extreme for an acoustic - pointing it at the neck joint might have the opposite affect and be too bright and thin. Cardioids might be better, or even omni if you have the option and a nice room to record in.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Twangothan

The thing about EQIng is it needs to be in the context of the mix, so getting it to sound how you want in solo might still not work in the mix.

Absolutely, and, even the best EQ or rescue job will never outdo what it 'could' have been given the choice between the two. I think some of the fixes presented are great but they do run the risk of creating a fix it in the mix dependency for the OP - other than I trust he is already aware of all this.

[jrk]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Absolutely, and, even the best EQ or rescue job will never outdo what it 'could' have been

For sure. There's no good reason to devote time to salvaging a duff take if it's easy to redo it. OK, it may be educational, but what do you want to learn? How to save a dodgy recording or how to make a good one? I know which I'd rather.

[Twangothan]

Originally Posted by jrk

For sure. There's no good reason to devote time to salvaging a duff take if it's easy to redo it. OK, it may be educational, but what do you want to learn? How to save a dodgy recording or how to make a good one? I know which I'd rather.

Depends what you're doing. I'm remixing some songs with not very well recorded parts, but that's what I've got, and rerecording ain't an option so you need to learn how to do a bit of audio salvage. Obvs clean, good tracks to start with is preferable.

[jrk]

The OP will probably be better served by the advice about mic positioning. The salvage tips may be useful for folks who don't have the option to re-record.