ReaMote + REAPER

[AtmanActive]

There's nothing to be sad about, it's not working.

It looks like it is working, it is pretending to be working, but in reality, it is broken.

[mschnell]

Regarding a future ReaMote functionality, there lately have been several discussions including suggesting a common infrastructure providing the functionality of ReaMote, Subprojects, Rewire and “Ableton Link”, as well locally on one machine as via a TCP/IP network – usable on a mix of Windows, Mac and Linux boxes.

Regarding ReaMote, IMHO, the major drawback with the current implementation is the necessity to install the plugins to be remotely used as well on the local as on the remote machine in exactly the same way. This asks for decent problems with licensing, and with the plugin installation procedures. (AFAIK, nobody yet was able to successfully use a decent set of complex payed Kontakt Sample Libraries via ReaMote.)

Hence such a new remoting tool should not require this (i.e. not mandatory try to remote-control the VST parameters), but allow the GUI of the VST be shown at the remote machine.

OTOH, it obviously is very handy if a remoted VST can be managed from the master machine.

Now I am not very knowledgeable about how VST works under the hood, but AFAIK, the GUI of the VST (usully) uses the Main/GUI thread of the host DAW. Hence it seems to be doable to automatically use a kind of “VNC” functionality ( → https://www.tightvnc.com/ ) *) to show and handle the GUI Window of the remoted VST in an appropriate window of the local Reaper. That way the “New ReaMote” would allow the same look and feel as the current ReaMote (once the plugin is running), but avoid the said problems.

On top of this, maybe remote controlled selection and instantiation of plugins in the remote box might be doable as well, but I don't think this is strictly necessary.

*) in fact I some years ago did use an open source VNC library to view a rectangle on the screen of a remote machine in a window in a program.

-Michael

[Xenakios]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Hence it seems to be doable to automatically use a kind of “VNC” functionality

...

*) in fact I some years ago did use an open source VNC library to view a rectangle on the screen of a remote machine in a window in a program.

It's just an incredible headache if it has to be implemented from scratch. 3rd party open source libraries won't help if the licensing isn't suitable for Cockos to use. (For example GPL licensed libraries are right out of the window.)

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Xenakios

It's just an incredible headache if it has to be implemented from scratch. 3rd party open source libraries won't help if the licensing isn't suitable for Cockos to use.

Yep. But they already do have a decently working Audio/Midi/timing remoting library they use in ReaMote. Seems like a good starter. No idea what would be the best way to remote the the VST GUI interface.

-Michael

[svijayrathinam]

Is it possible to make reamote work for item Fx or take Fx ?

[foxAsteria]

Never used it, but suddenly I wanna check it out.

[denork]

Pls, NO!

The Acustica Audio plugins are increasingly used and Reaper + Reamote are a blessing! Freeing the main PC of the return FX from reverbs, delays etc. from the AA plugin is great. Please, DO NOT leave Reamote.

[Arionas]

Originally Posted by denork

Pls, NO!

The Acustica Audio plugins are increasingly used and Reaper + Reamote are a blessing! Freeing the main PC of the return FX from reverbs, delays etc. from the AA plugin is great. Please, DO NOT leave Reamote.

I agree 100%, I use exactly the same workflow for my aux reverbs from Nebula4 and Acqua plugins.
Great cpu saver for my daily works in the studio.

[srdmusic]

Originally Posted by Justin

Just curious -- does anybody use ReaMote? If we removed it would you be sad? Do tell!

Please don't remove it. I just now discovered it and it's one of the most genius parts of Reaper you guys have come up with.

[srdmusic]

Originally Posted by Justin

There's also a bunch of ReaMote related code within REAPER, which doesn't see a lot of testing from what I can tell. So it's somewhat of a liability, as we go and improve other parts of REAPER, we have to worry about breaking it.

I personally love ReaMote. It's giving me essentially double the power on my composing rig so I'd be supper sad to see it go. I like that it's an option to install instead of requirement. Perhaps it should be un-selected option when installing default.

[oblh]

Originally Posted by Justin

Just curious -- does anybody use ReaMote? If we removed it would you be sad? Do tell!

Yes I would be very sad! I am just a little step to purchase reaper after testing and can tell ReaMote is the last thing I discovered with wau in my mind. Immi I took advantage of this as I was just about to buy new PC (I have weak CPU). I was depressed as it means new MB, then new RAMs etc, licenses transfer, firewire no longer supported (new audio interface?)..and suddenly I discovered ReaMote, just plugged my old PC laying around and vuala! No need to buy anything! I admit I have problems to use Waves plugs and other iLok stuff, but still. I can at least lave my non Waves chains! And maybe time to switch from Waves to other devs which support more to endless licenses (Hornet for example). With that kind of plugins and ReaMote I can even do a hemendex in Reaper for next 10 years

Please do not remove ReaMote It just makes Reaper even more special (even if I thought it's not possible after previous testing I agree to think oposite, maybe improve it and it will really take reaper to the new era just my 2cents. Thanks!

[oblh]

Originally Posted by oblh

Yes I would be very sad! I am just a little step to purchase reaper after testing and can tell ReaMote is the last thing I discovered with wau in my mind. Immi I took advantage of this as I was just about to buy new PC (I have weak CPU). I was depressed as it means new MB, then new RAMs etc, licenses transfer, firewire no longer supported (new audio interface?)..and suddenly I discovered ReaMote, just plugged my old PC laying around and vuala! No need to buy anything! I admit I have problems to use Waves plugs and other iLok stuff, but still. I can at least lave my non Waves chains! And maybe time to switch from Waves to other devs which support more to endless licenses (Hornet for example). With that kind of plugins and ReaMote I can even do a hemendex in Reaper for next 10 years

Please do not remove ReaMote It just makes Reaper even more special (even if I thought it's not possible after previous testing I agree to think oposite, maybe improve it and it will really take reaper to the new era just my 2cents. Thanks!

Jupii, finally managed to complete the purchase Hope ReaMote will stay with "us" Cheers!

[Win Conway]

Just sell the multiple computers and buy a single faster one, this tech was useful a long time ago, not so much now, again if it worked with Kontakt then yeah, all over it, but it doesn't, remove it, move on.

[picophone]

Intel has 32 core processors now. They will be increasing this over the next decade as the can't make the transistors any smaller. The atoms are almost touching! Multiple cores on one system will out-perform a network, so ya... ReaMote seems obsolete.

[Cojo Guitar]

I tried using it for workload distribution but ran into hierarchy problems. Maybe if it were easier to use?? I dunno. That said... I built a more powerful machine last year and haven't wanted for it since.

Just my $0.02

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

this tech was useful a long time ago, not so much now,

Nonsense !
Computers gets faster, but the demands get bigger at at least the same rate.

Hence the need for distributing workload on several even more powerful boxes will not fade.

-Michael

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Cojo Guitar

Maybe if it were easier to use??

In fact ReaMote is as "easy to use" as it gets.

But OTOH, it's not versatile enough, handling situations that make it hard to provide the exactly same installation of the appropriate plugins on all boxes. That is why solutions like "remote subprojects" have been discussed. But such will definitively not be more "easy to use", as the configuration of the remote plugins would need to be done on the remote box.

-Michael

[denork]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

Just sell the multiple computers and buy a single faster one, this tech was useful a long time ago, not so much now, again if it worked with Kontakt then yeah, all over it, but it doesn't, remove it, move on.

Well, it would be useful for me with AA / Nebula plugins if it weren't because it doesn't work as I would like, I guess it's obsolete.

[picophone]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Nonsense !
Computers gets faster, but the demands get bigger at at least the same rate.

Hence the need for distributing workload on several even more powerful boxes will not fade.

-Michael

Respectfully, that's not quite accurate. There was a time when having 48 tracks required syncing two $200,000 machines. 10 years later a room was replaces by a single desktop that could do 96 tracks. I think the main point is ReaMote is hindering the speed and efficiency of Reaper and the benefits of removing it would outweigh the losses.

[vincePEARL]

i posted to a few friends the "reamote" feature because they were
about to shell out a ton of money for new Laptops with cpu power.

Reamote saved them a lot of wasted $$$ .

The only thing is that some people may not realize that it's a crossover
network cable which is required in each instance & not a standard cat 5 cable.

i wonder if you can tell me if reamote works in ARM compiled versions of
Reaper?.....the reason i ask is because i don't even know if ARM compiled
versions of Reaper can run VST's...? (would the DLL for the vst need to be
ARM Linux compiled?)

I believe there is quite a fair list of Linux compiled VST's now. Mostly free.

thanks


Vince.

[mschnell]

Reamote shows the GUI of the VST on the local box and uses the audio functionality of the VST on the remote box. As both are in the same "DLL"'s code, you would need an Arm, installation of the VST to make it work.

That is a reason why I suggested the "remote subproject" (or whatever) feature.
-Michael

[vincePEARL]

Right.....last comment...

I have found Linux VST's but they seem to be x86 versions and and i am still looking
for ARM versions.

There are many other software apps like Reaper compiled for Linux x86....but finding
them in ARM compilations is tricky...... unless you compile it yourself.

Does reaper come with any embedded VST's...? (Since they would also be available in the ARM reaper version right....?)

thx

V

[akademie]

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

Right.....last comment...

I have found Linux VST's but they seem to be x86 versions and and i am still looking
for ARM versions.

There are many other software apps like Reaper compiled for Linux x86....but finding
them in ARM compilations is tricky...... unless you compile it yourself.

Does reaper come with any embedded VST's...? (Since they would also be available in the ARM reaper version right....?)

thx

V

Reaper comes with tons of "JS Effects" and many "native Reaper plugins" (ReaEQ, ReaComp, ReaVerb etc.) by default in installation. All of them can be used in ReaMote.

[vincePEARL]

Right ......last comment...


As long as Reamote works in Reaper ARMv7......

..... is it possible to use unlimited remote networked machines for off loading VST work? (reamote)

thanks

V

[oblh]

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

Right ......last comment...


As long as Reamote works in Reaper ARMv7......

..... is it possible to use unlimited remote networked machines for off loading VST work? (reamote)

thanks

V

as far as I understood there is no limitation. You can use as many slaves as you want!

[vincePEARL]

RIght everybody....

thankyou very much for your support about Reamote on ARM.

Without Totally wanting to give my game away......my intention
is to ba able to build real powerhouse music production machines
on a shoestring. A crazy small price.

It all seems perfectly possible.

WHen i get it sorted out......
sorted so that the "Linux Reaper ARM machines" can use the free WRAPPER tools mentioned on the Reaper Linux wiki.....Wrappers that allow your "Linux ARM
Reaper setup" to run any win32 and win64 VST and VSTi's.......i will let you
all know.


Then these powerhouse machines will be very useful music production machines.
....while also being ******extremely inexpensive***** music production machines.

The operating systems i intend to use may be

Raspbian ARM or
ARCH ARM 64 or
Armbian Linux or
DietPi Linux or
Tinycore Linux ARM..........


and others.....

Thanks again to you all ...........

Vince


ps...i have been finding quite a lot of VST's that are compiled for ARMV7....so they should work in several LINUX ARM distros such as Raspbian ARM or Ununtu mate ARM or many others.

here are about 20 VST's or more for ARMV7

------------------------------------------

https://lsp-plug.in/?page=manuals



https://www.pianoteq.com/

[mschnell]

I agree that Reaper is the perfect basis for such a project !
I very happily use Reaper as an embedded system for Live playing (see "Live" subforum), but of course on a PC box. Having a small inexpensive ARM based box for live playing (Keyboard, Guitar, Loop based production, DJ-stuff, ...) would be awesome.

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

ps...i have been finding quite a lot of VST's that are compiled for ARMV7....so they should work in several LINUX ARM distros such as Raspbian ARM or Ununtu mate ARM or many others.

That is really good news.

Let us know your results on trying them on Reaper / Linux / ARM and even ReaMote !

Unfortunately I don't see any work going on on doing Kontakt for Linux, and on top of that Kontakt for ARM.
This would enable thousands of high quality libraries to be used with your project.

-Michael

[vincePEARL]

Yes....last commentor


My issue is that Linux VST hosts all tend to use WINE and that means that
they only work on x86 cpu's ....Wine is not available for ARM.

However, there is a Linux VST hose that does not use wine...called JOST.

That can surely be compiled for Arm. Then it may be possible to run
win32 and win64 VST's inside an ARM reaper.

http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/Jost/

As for other ARM vst-instruments i found the very high end BIOTEK SYNTH by Tracktion.
A very powerful soft synth for Raspbery pi ARM.

Also the very powerful "Tracktion Waveform" DAW is fully available for raspberry pi ARM.
It can play back demo songs with 32 tracks of Audio....on a 35 dollar Pi 3.

Also ARDOUR daw is free on Arm flavors

https://packages.debian.org/buster/ardour

Vince





But my focus still lies with REAMOTE and REAPER and ARM cpu processing farms.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

Wine is not available for ARM.

Wine for ARM would enable "Windows for ARM" - executables in Linux, But there are no such beasts (yet).

-Michael

[Xenakios]

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

However, there is a Linux VST hose that does not use wine...called JOST.

Nowhere on that page it is mentioned that would run Windows VST plugins.

It says "Jost is an open source multi-technology (native VST, LADSPA, DSSI) host for Linux."

I take the "native" means VST plugins compiled for Linux. Which is possible, but very few developers do that.

Use of WINE is required when attempting to host Windows VSTs on Linux. VST plugins can use almost everything from the operating system, so as full as possible compatibility with Windows is needed. It wouldn't make any sense for an audio host application to implement the same functionality as WINE, instead of just relying on WINE.

[vincePEARL]

Right thanks for the comments...


just seem to recall that Jost was inferring it could deal with win32/64 VST's somehow...

i will need to check again. The idea for me would be to get similar functionality
from ARM music work-sations as you get in x86.

I believe this is already possible if one just imagines using Linux VST's.
There are many of those Linux VST's....but they would need to be compiled for ARM.

I am not sure how easy or difficult compiling is.
I can't imagine it's too difficult.

The existing ARM daw's already come with quite a few plug ins and VST's and VSTi's

Ofcourse though, you want maximum flexibility from your ARM music station by using third paryy VST's.

It puzzles me a little how there isn't a healthy ecosystem of ARM Vst's since it is so
inexpensive and popular.

Part of the reasoning behind my ideas is indeed....... "price".

I want to be able to have a powerful music work station that "anybody else" could also easily afford. You could even have a couple of them in different locations.

A work-station that can literally be replaced after a flood or fire.
Replaced after a theft.......replaced after breakage or failure.
Something along those lines....... inexpensive ARM workstation.



You see, there are many other single board ARM computers that can run Raspbian OS.

I think that ARM Reaper would install on those boards and run.

These are headless computer boards at about $7 for a new quad core 64 bit ARM board
running at 1.9ghz per core.

You could have 6 of them boards linked via REAMOTE cables and powered over ethernet .....and then ONE master board with the video out.

That is a total of 24 cpu cores at about 1.9ghz each for Reaper.

Right

Vince

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Xenakios

It wouldn't make any sense for an audio host application to implement the same functionality as WINE, instead of just relying on WINE.

Yep.

Wine is open source and hence it might be possible to use Wine modules via an .so file instead of having the user install and manage the wine executable(s).

-Michael

[Xenakios]

Originally Posted by mschnell

it might be possible to use Wine modules via an .so file instead of having the user install and manage the wine executable(s).

Possibly, but WINE could be so big that DAW applications wouldn't necessarily want to do that. (Read : not gonna happen with REAPER )

[Xenakios]

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

There are many of those Linux VST's....but they would need to be compiled for ARM.

I am not sure how easy or difficult compiling is.
I can't imagine it's too difficult.

If the source code is available, the difficulty will range from "run configure and make" to "next to impossible". It depends on how much assumptions the code makes about the target architecture. I should really get myself one of those Raspberry Pis or something, so I could do some development tests...

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Xenakios

Possibly, but WINE could be so big that DAW applications wouldn't necessarily want to do that. (Read : not gonna happen with REAPER )

Yep !

Of course this .so would be a Reaper extension and distributed separate.
This also is a legal necessity, as it would need to be GPL.

-Michael

[vincePEARL]

If the source code is available, the difficulty will range from "run configure and make" to "next to impossible". It depends on how much assumptions the code makes about the target architecture. I should really get myself one of those Raspberry Pis or something, so I could do some development tests...[/QUOTE]


right.......so it depends then. Hmmmmm.

Rasberry pi zero W are a nice buy....at 9 dollars.

Vince

[vincePEARL]

You know, the more you look around....the more and more
VST's and VSTi's you find compiled for RPi ARM.


i just found.... CARLA .... ZynAddSubFX synth...... and Linux Sampler.......

https://autostatic.com/2013/07/26/ca.../#comment-2953

The ARDOUR daw is on ARM for RPi


It is also in the Arch ARM repo.

they are out there....it's finding them all.


somebody should compile an exhaustive list of
ARM RPi music plugins and daws and apps.

...it's somewhat clear in mid 2019 that
there is no need to spend over
say 50 dollars on a high end music workstation
via ARM computers.

The software is out there....it's just finding it.

thanks

Vince.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

it's clearly certain in mid 2019 that there is absolutely zero need to spend over say 50 dollars on a high end music workstation
via ARM computers.

Or a PC for what 90 % of the computer buyers do: Browser / e-Mail / Office.

But OTOH, while you can do a rather decent and versatile Reaper based music computer for many uses, regarding a "a high end music workstation" the performance of a Pi is just tine vs top $ 1000 .. 2000 PC hardware.

-Michael

[vincePEARL]

Yes Mike,

You know though....Tracktion claims amazing high performance from a
high end DAW on an RPi 3. .....32 audio tracks playback.
(Waveform 10) ARM daw on RPi.

Granted however, "Waveform 10" ARM Daw on RPi does not seem free at $119 since the $69 tag is just an upgrade price....

You can get "Waveform OEM" daw on ARM free..... when you buy any digital Berhinger product.

Traktion T7 x86 Daw is a completely free high end daw on Win and Lin x86. I Have it here.
https://www.tracktion.com/products/t7-daw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c-eB2EwSAo

------------------------

As regarding Reaper, i don't think it would be any problem meeting a high
end PC's performance via ARM Linux boards by tagging new $7 ARM boards in rows over ethernet. (Reamote).

With ARM It's all about the software end....and "where" exactly is the ARM stuff....?

It's seems odd in near 2020 that this ARM music ecosystem isn't any more streamlined given how much sense it makes....?

The CARLA and LinuxSampler ARM builds for RPis that i found....they also run and load SFZ files and there are many examples. I am unsure if they are indeed ARM compiled SFZ's...... but i don't think anything needs to change about SFZ files on Carla for ARM.



Really the Krux of this whole thread for me revolves around "what" and "how" can an
ARM--music--workstation--user have a similar ecosystem of free VST's as what an
x86 music--workstation--user would enjoy..? That's it.

(Actual ARM performance is already a manageable topic.......)

As stared earlier, Raspbian OS for ARM can run on other cheap new ARM boards not just RPi's. It is a Debian based OS.

http://www.orangepi.org/downloadresources/ As you can see there "Orange Pi PLUS2 H3" running Raspbian desktop.

------------------------------

Armbian OS.... is also Debian based and runs on many ARM boards and should take Reaper Arm.
https://www.armbian.com/download/

https://www.dietpi.com/ (Diet Pi OS .....is also Debian based and has a Raspberry Pi version.... and many other versions) It's likely that ARM builds of Reaper will work here.
https://www.dietpi.com/

Tinycore Linux Arm........ is fast on RPi's. Reaper would even run well on a "RPi zero" $5 clusters.........10 RPi Zero boards linked over 80 cents ethernet-2-USB adapters. (crossover cables with reamote)

there seems a lot of opportunity

thx

Vince.



ps

Is it the case that LV2 plugins would also need to be ARM compiled. I assume so...?

[Xenakios]

Originally Posted by vincePEARL

Is it the case that LV2 plugins would also need to be ARM compiled. I assume so...?

Yes, they need to be compiled for the target architecture.