Old 11-02-2017, 04:07 PM   #1
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Default v5.65pre8 - November 2 2017

v5.65pre8 - November 2 2017
+ Notation editor: do not apply display quantization to tuplets [t=199010]
+ VST3: make Console 1 obey solo-in-place preference [t=197633]
+ Video: fix potential memory errors with certain video processors
+ Windows: prevent windows from being initialized with offscreen titlebars
# Ruler: improve ruler lane layout logic when not displaying regions or markers in lanes

Full changelog - Latest pre-releases
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:25 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
# Ruler: improve ruler lane layout logic when not displaying regions or markers in lanes
Much better, thanks!
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:08 PM   #3
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a bit of FR, or idea related to region lanes:
as you expand this rulers/markers area, the main toolbar is centered vertically, leaving a lot of wasted space above and below the toolbar buttons.
Maybe if you align the toolbar to the bottom, where the ruler is, as you expand this area, there is empty "TCP" space above. This could be used for lanes "LCP" properties of the region lanes, for example, name each region lane(same as track names), button to mute visibility of those regions in that lane (same as track mute buttons), independent lane height control,(same as tracks height), a button to change color of all regions in that lane, etc... these region names could be used as filters in the render region matrix too.
And maybe you could even add normal tracks there, we have all space for a full second TCP there. These could be like sticky tracks or like a second arrange window that scrolls independently of the arrange window.
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v5.65pre8 - November 2 2017

+ VST3: make Console 1 obey solo-in-place preference [t=197633]
Seriously, thank you for this...

tg
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:23 PM   #5
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This seems wonky to me: marker #6 was created last. Its text is in the same lane as marker #5, and is covered up. When #6 is created, shouldn't #5 automatically drop down to the lower lane?
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:28 PM   #6
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This seems wonky to me: marker #6 was created last. Its text is in the same lane as marker #5, and is covered up. When #6 is created, shouldn't #5 automatically drop down to the lower lane?
That is a good point. We should have an option to always extend additional lanes if overlapping markers/regions are detected/created/moved.
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:31 PM   #7
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when you use the toggle actions for displaying region/markers/tempo in lanes, if all three are off, the size of the enlarged area is maintained by enlarging the ruler. I don't know if this is the best. I don't expect the ruler to be enlarged, just the lanes to be collapsed, so the size of the area becomes smaller too. If not, then you must always use the mouse to drag up or down to resize it.
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Old 11-02-2017, 05:40 PM   #8
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^^^ Agreed, it should revert to the default ruler size.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:24 PM   #9
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In v5.65pre8, I only see the first 12 characters in marker names, even with a blank project containing only 1 marker, at any zoom state. Regions and time signature markers are OK.

Also (old issue), the bottom of characters such as "j" and "y" get cut off regardless of ruler lane height. This only happens with markers. Region text is OK.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:26 PM   #10
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Could of sworn I reported this bug awhile back and it was fixed, but is broke again,

Double clicking the slider in Reduce Points doesn't reset the points/value.

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Old 11-03-2017, 12:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
In v5.65pre8, I only see the first 12 characters in marker names, even with a blank project containing only 1 marker, at any zoom state. Regions and time signature markers are OK.

Also (old issue), the bottom of characters such as "j" and "y" get cut off regardless of ruler lane height. This only happens with markers. Region text is OK.
Please fix this, I use often long marker names, very long ones.
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:02 AM   #12
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Regarding Automation Items..

2 smallish things I think are still missing and critical to get these inline with normal item editing and would be amazing to have.


1. Allow the edges of AIs to snap to each other (if that option is enable in grid settings)

2. When AI edges are touching. Allow dual edge adjusting (like we can for normal items and now regions)

Thanks!
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:18 AM   #13
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Bug : We can't move region below the next adjacent region.



Devs, I continue to think that the new region hebaviour (to have the possibility to move region below an another region) will bring problems. I bet lots of people will face non expected behaviour when they will try to move region only side by side or below others.

Exemple for one personne who wants to move regions side by side and don't know or understand the new behaviour (at the end of the manipulation, there will be lots of region below others) :



Those who will correclty achieve to put regions side by side, will probably spend more time than before the update region (We have to be more accurate than before with the handle of the mouse cursor. Plus, we have to zoom more often to be accurate whith the mouse cursor).



If you don't want to add mouse modifier or to give the possibility to move regions through lines (my preference), why don't use a visuel marking to indicate to user which action he is going to make (move region side by side or below the region) ?

Or add an action to disable/enable the possibility to move region below an another region.


Last edited by ovnis; 11-03-2017 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:21 AM   #14
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I agree pretty much with Ovnis, but additionally it would be extra-intuitive if when moving regions that there was a marker for both the start and end points.

It is confusing (or was for me initially so I suspect it will be for newcomers), when moving a region to the right, the insert marker shows the end of the region, and when moving a region to the left, the insert marker shows the start of the region.

Would be great to see both start and end, colour-coded too.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by RobU View Post
I agree pretty much with Ovnis, but additionally it would be extra-intuitive if when moving regions that there was a marker for both the start and end points.

It is confusing (or was for me initially so I suspect it will be for newcomers), when moving a region to the right, the insert marker shows the end of the region, and when moving a region to the left, the insert marker shows the start of the region.

Would be great to see both start and end, colour-coded too.
A little bit like this ?



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Old 11-03-2017, 08:30 AM   #16
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A little bit like this ?
This ^^^ would be perfect +1
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:45 AM   #17
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Plus one to this region movement behavior
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:45 PM   #18
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Region lanes? Ok that's useful to many, I'm sure, but how about the long standing request of hiding regions/markers altogether (at least the lines)?
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Old 11-03-2017, 03:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Bug : We can't move region below the next adjacent region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobU View Post
It is confusing (or was for me initially so I suspect it will be for newcomers), when moving a region to the right, the insert marker shows the end of the region, and when moving a region to the left, the insert marker shows the start of the region.

I think there may be some misunderstanding about how moving regions works.

First of all, there is no start or end pointer. When you drag a region with no keyboard modifier, the entire region will move to the new location. Space will be inserted where the destination pointer is displayed. So the pointer indicates both the start and the end of the region -- everything before the pointer stays the same, everything after the pointer stays the same, and the region is inserted where the pointer is. It wouldn't be correct to indicate this with anything other than a single pointer.

Secondly, you can't move a region "under" another region. What you can do is move a region as described above, but if the destination pointer happens to fall within another region -- even just barely after the start of another region, or barely before the end -- then space will be inserted within the existing region, as described above; the existing region will be expanded to span the new space; the selected region will be moved to the new space.

I suspect the behavior you are seeing is because the existing regions do not exactly start or end on the grid. The behavior should be clearer if you look at how the content within the arrange view moves with the region edits:

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Old 11-03-2017, 03:44 PM   #20
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the only thing that make me feels bad GUI guys come on every DAW goes Vectorial
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:21 PM   #21
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Except not every DAW does.
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
I think there may be some misunderstanding about how moving regions works.
No problem for me. Your explication fits exactly with my thoughts about regions.

Quote:
It wouldn't be correct to indicate this with anything other than a single pointer.
I don't understand why. It would be more easy and acurate to know what it will happen with this, no ?



Quote:
Secondly, you can't move a region "under" another region.
Maybe there is an issue of semantics. What I call "region" is the rectangle at the top of the display and I'm maybe crazy or blind, but it seems we can move one "region" under one another "region" (i talk about the rectangle), but we can't move the content (midi tems, automation) of this "region".
So when I talk about region displacement issue, I talk about the rectangle !



Quote:
I suspect the behavior you are seeing is because the existing regions do not exactly start or end on the grid.
It's note the case. All my regions are exactly on the start and the end of the grid.
At your home, have you try to move region under the first next region on the right ? I can't do it for the first, but I can do it for the next regions.



Quote:
The behavior should be clearer if you look at how the content within the arrange view moves with the region edits:
When we move the region cursor, his content (items, etc.) is not moved, so we are able to see what we have done only after moving region. If we have made a bad displacement, we have to make CTRL+Z and start again all the process... Not very ergonomic.

Last edited by ovnis; 11-03-2017 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:03 PM   #23
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I don't understand why. It would be more easy and acurate to know what it will happen with this, no ?
Maybe, but to be clear, in that screencap, when you let go of the mouse, all project media and content at bar 97 or later will be moved to the right. Your preview displays the moved region over existing content between bars 97-99, but when you let go of the mouse that content will move out of the way.

Quote:
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All my regions are exactly on the start and the end of the grid
Can you post that project, or email to support at cockos? Please delete all the media and FX to make it minimal.

Here is what happens when editing regions, with snap on. When a region is dragged to a destination that is within another region, space is made for region that is moving.



As far as I know, the only way that you can get to what you show in your screencap is if the region you are moving "under" actually starts before, even 0.001 microseconds before, the grid. Maybe there is some sort-order issue that would cause what you are seeing even if the region starts exactly on the grid, but I'll be able to figure it out if I have your project.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
When we move the region cursor, his content (items, etc.) is not moved, so we are able to see what we have done only after moving region
Moving regions is a major edit, as everything moves including the tempo map. If this all happened during the edit preview, it could get very hard to tell where you actually started editing.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Maybe, but to be clear, in that screencap, when you let go of the mouse, all project media and content at bar 97 or later will be moved to the right. Your preview displays the moved region over existing content between bars 97-99, but when you let go of the mouse that content will move out of the way.
Yep. In the preview mode, we can virtualy move regions and contents with the aim to feet with what will happen if we let go the mouse. I think it's a better behaviour. More logical.
In actual behaviour, when we move the region cursor, the content which will be moved after the mouse release is not correctly displayed too (but maybe more logical because the region editor is not a preview region lenght). The big difference with the proposed behaviour is that we can see the lenght, the color and the name of the moved region. And very important : we can see if the rectangle/region will be side by side or under a rectangle/region.


Quote:
Can you post that project, or email to support at cockos? Please delete all the media and FX to make it minimal.

Here is what happens when editing regions, with snap on. When a region is dragged to a destination that is within another region, space is made for region that is moving.
To reproduce the "bug", when you move region under the first next one on the right, you have to put the region cursor inside the first measure of the next region.

Exactly like this :


The project :
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/32073/issue.RPP

Last edited by ovnis; 11-03-2017 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Moving regions is a major edit, as everything moves including the tempo map. If this all happened during the edit preview, it could get very hard to tell where you actually started editing.
When we move item, it's not seem an issue for lots of people to don't able to remember where it was. I don't think that it will be annoying.

Perhaps, we can making the started editing region display more transparant ? So, there would be two same regions : the original (transparant) which remains inside is old place and the new which we move inside lines. But I don't fan of this option.

Last edited by ovnis; 11-03-2017 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:06 PM   #26
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I don't know how to make a gif but something funny is happening when I use the tempo change dialog to change the tempo. All the bar numbers seems to disappear?

It does not happen if I change the tempo directly in the transport bar though.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:25 PM   #27
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@lexaproductions https://www.cockos.com/licecap/

Was it similar to this old bug? https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=189365 "Alternative steps with a different result"


Last edited by cfillion; 11-03-2017 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
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The project
Thank you! The problem is caused by the tempo marker at bar 12, which is not exactly on the grid. That causes the following tempo marker to be slightly off as well. If the mouse is to the right of the third tempo marker, the region edit snaps to the tempo marker, which is very slightly after the start of the third region. If the mouse is to the left, the start of the third region is closer, so the edit snaps correctly to that edge.

You can see this if you open the RPP in a text editor:

Code:
    PT 0.000000000000 160.0000000000 1
    PT 16.500000001000 160.0000000000 1
    PT 28.500000001000 160.0000000000 1
If you snap the second tempo marker to the grid (not the third one, since the second one affects the third), it should cause the third tempo marker to adjust as well, and then you won't be able to do what you are calling the "under" edit any more.

We might add something to ensure that region edits snap to other region edges even if something else in the project is a little closer.
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Old 11-03-2017, 07:48 PM   #29
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It seems that there is an issue with the tempo marker generated or moved (it is not exactly snaped on the grid)...





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Old 11-03-2017, 09:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfillion View Post
@lexaproductions https://www.cockos.com/licecap/

Was it similar to this old bug? https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=189365 "Alternative steps with a different result"

Yep That's it. But it NEVER happened to me before this build. And I do a lot of tempo change all the time. Dunno what I did different this time.

Reverting back to 5.61 seems to have fixed it...
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Old 11-04-2017, 02:20 AM   #31
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in FX browser, after re scanning plugins to populate categories and developers,
in Developers/Cockos I don't see the JS ones like Super8 for example, just VST/VSTi ones.
I can see them in All plugins/Cockos.
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Old 11-04-2017, 06:16 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
in FX browser, after re scanning plugins to populate categories and developers,
in Developers/Cockos I don't see the JS ones like Super8 for example, just VST/VSTi ones.
I can see them in All plugins/Cockos.
I hate it that Cockos plugins are burried within developers folder. I use them a lot, and rather have them separately. So I created custom smart folder for Cockos, and added all plugins in there. This should also solve your problem with missing plugins.
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