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Old 03-20-2018, 12:11 PM   #1
thunderbroom
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Default PC Upgrade - looking for some guidance

Hello all! First, before questions, my current PC specs:

Windows 7
Intel I7 (duo) Core 3.4GHz
16GB DDR3 RAM (2 x 8GB)
Drives (all SSD):
2 x 500GB (Samsung EVO)
1 x 250GB (")
2 x 64GB (Crucial)
External Backup: WD MyBook Duo (4TB) via USB
UAD-2 Quad PCI-e
Saffire Pro40 (firewire) interface
UA 4-710D (master clock; ADAT optical out to Pro40)
Rosewill Power Supply
ACER 27" [2560 x 1440 w/ 144Hz refresh]

Looking to make some upgrades as even with making sure my PC is configured as ideal for audio production, some of the more VST and VSTi intensive sessions I run tend to have issues (such as delays between clicking on a track's FX and the window opening, glitchiness/stuttering during playback, etc). So overall, my goal is a greater number of cores with a solid amount of cache space to hopefully help manage the workload more efficiently.

Additionally, I want to move to a 2 monitor arrangement; using my current monitor in conjunction with a multi-touch screen monitor, so my assumption is an updated/upgraded graphics card that can handle both monitors(?).

My goal here is to rid myself of other controllers and most use of my trackball, using a touchscreen as my mixer, my current standard monitor for the tracks and sound editing jobs.

I'll be looking to also move from Windows 7 to 10.

Also, though I'm already planning on a new mobo, new RAM (DDR4 but still 16GB - seems plenty for now) and a new CPU (I7 4 or 6 core), I'm hoping to reuse my current case, power supply and current SSDs (probably look to add a second 500GB on to replace the two 64GB ones currently installed).

I've done an extensive amount of research in terms of compatibility and pricing, but I'm looking to my colleagues to get some input and direction. My current set up has served me well since 2011 (not including the additional SSDs installed along the way) so I'm looking for my upgrades to serve me well over the next few years as well.

I'd greatly appreciate any guidance and suggestions, pitfalls in terms of compatibility, changing my OS, wanting to reuse my current SSDs, etc. If any of you have done any remotely similar upgrades, I'd love to know about your experience too.

Thank you all in advance for any guidance or suggestions you might have.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:32 PM   #2
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Firstly, don't buy a ryzen, your uad card won't be detected. Only Octo are compatible. I found this out the hard way.

I have an Asus z370-a and an i7 8700k. It is awesome. I thought I would miss the two extra cores of my ryzen 1700,but the i7 makes up for it with higher clock speed, and for some reason reaper seems to multithread way more effectively on it. Maybe ryzen is too new an architecture, and isn't optimised as well.
Also the i7 has built in graphics, which although aren't as nice as the Nvidia 1050ti they replaced, have way lower dpc latency. This could be another reason why this system performs so much better than the ryzen one.

Probably not a comprehensive bit of advise, but hopefully some use to you. I'm very happy with the power of this pc, in terms of realtime audio performance anyway
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:54 PM   #3
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Default Thank you!

I am pretty dead set on the Intel cpu so no ryzen for me is fine. The 8700 was one I looked at, along with the 7700. I saw the Asus mobo you mentioned along with an ASROCK (which I've used and found really stable with anything I've connected to it). I appreciate the information. Thanks again.
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:11 PM   #4
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My only tip would be to make sure that you get a native PCIE Texas Instruments firewire controller to get the best performance out of the saffire pro 40.

Your mileage may vary using a PCI card that goes into a slot that uses a bridge chip to connect to PCIE on your motherboard.

Beware of PCIE firewire adapters that are actually just a PCI firewire chip with a PCI to PCIE bridge chip on the card.

Technically, I believe that the "native" TI firewire chip is still just a PCI firewire adapter with the PCI to PCIE bridge built in to the chip, but you are guaranteed that it will work properly with the PCI part of the chip. No such promise with the cards that use an external PCI to PCIE bridge.

Last edited by drumphil; 03-24-2018 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbroom View Post

Intel I7 (duo) Core 3.4GHz

16GB DDR3 RAM (2 x 8GB)

2 x 500GB (Samsung EVO)
1 x 250GB (")
2 x 64GB (Crucial)
External Backup: WD MyBook Duo (4TB) via USB

UAD-2 Quad PCI-e
Saffire Pro40 (firewire) interface
UA 4-710D (master clock; ADAT optical out to Pro40)

Rosewill Power Supply

ACER 27" [2560 x 1440 w/ 144Hz refresh]

..overall, my goal is a greater number of cores with a solid amount of cache space to hopefully help manage the workload more efficiently.

Additionally, I want to move to a 2 monitor arrangement; using my current monitor in conjunction with a multi-touch screen monitor, so my assumption is an updated/upgraded graphics card that can handle both monitors(?).


I'll be looking to also move from Windows 7 to 10.

I'm hoping to reuse my current case, power supply and current SSDs (probably look to add a second 500GB on to replace the two 64GB ones currently installed).

I've done an extensive amount of research in terms of compatibility and pricing, but I'm looking to my colleagues to get some input and direction. My current set up has served me well since 2011 (not including the additional SSDs installed along the way) so I'm looking for my upgrades to serve me well over the next few years as well.
Hey there, I am new to building PC's and thought I'd give my little bit of experience here as it's relevant in the context of your post (8th gen build, win 10). Based on what info you provided, you seem to know your stuff and have a good idea what you want already, as well as having experience building - so that being said, I think you are headed in the right direction and overall all my "advice" comes down to is "go for it!" You will definitely gain here with an upgrade.

Even with the criticism of Intel's decision to release the Z370 chipsets that *only* support Coffee Lake, I think this is only a big deal for those who had just barely got done building a Kaby Lake rig
when the news came out. I know I'd be upset, but.. better them than us For the rest of us, we needed a mobo anyway.

My point is, really, that you will still be able to use those still-relevant (and pricey; SSD's) components that you listed. Your mobo and ram, no (and i know you know that), but at least you are getting a boost out of both with DDR and z370. Your case, as long as you are sticking with the same form, I would expect should be fine (full ATX?). Your PSU, I'm not confident enough to really say one way or the other on what you *should* do, but afaik, so long as it's been working fine and has the needed wattage (w some headroom hopefully) to run the new components, I think you'd be fine. SSD's for sure, and if you do decide to replace the two smallies I recommend you get an m.2 that will snap right in onto your new mobo (most z370 ATX's and smaller have at least one slot). one less sata cable to manage, and you can find some very good deals (you may want to "re-research" and determine if it's actually worth it to buy NVMe - my own conclusion personally was an m.2 3D NAND SSD was plenty good enough as opposed to an m.2 NVMe of equal capacity, which would have cost hundreds more for a hardly noticible performance boost).

I'm running onboard graphics so I can't really comment on the video card compatibility. I know for my purposes I really dont need one, and, the newest Intel graphics (UHD630) are actually pretty good. I read GTA5 runs smooth albeit at 720 res, but are you gaming, or is it just for need of the dual monitors setup? You should research more about what UHD630 is capable of, as well as (maybe?) find Z370 that makes your desired setup possible. If you don't need VGA you'd save a lot of money in that area if it is possible to get on with just the onboard. The thing I am not sure of is how touchscreens are connected, and I would guess it's DP, in which case you may need a gfx card afterall.

I hope this helps at least in supporting your decision! I just finished upgrading from a 9 year old quad core laptop to an i5 8400, and it's a whole new world. I got so used to Traktor pausing 5-10 seconds each time I open the menu, I get confused now at those sorts of delays now being instaneous. I have yet to experience choppy sound, noticeable latency or distortions etc in DAW/others. Serum VST performs flawlessly... and, i can finally run my ASUS monitor at full res of 2560 (I think thats the number) instead of 1920. And that is with the onboard IG.

Keep us updated!
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowlyOP View Post
Hey there, I am new to building PC's and thought I'd give my little bit of experience here as it's relevant in the context of your post (8th gen build, win 10). Based on what info you provided, you seem to know your stuff and have a good idea what you want already, as well as having experience building - so that being said, I think you are headed in the right direction and overall all my "advice" comes down to is "go for it!" You will definitely gain here with an upgrade.

Even with the criticism of Intel's decision to release the Z370 chipsets that *only* support Coffee Lake, I think this is only a big deal for those who had just barely got done building a Kaby Lake rig
when the news came out. I know I'd be upset, but.. better them than us For the rest of us, we needed a mobo anyway.

My point is, really, that you will still be able to use those still-relevant (and pricey; SSD's) components that you listed. Your mobo and ram, no (and i know you know that), but at least you are getting a boost out of both with DDR and z370. Your case, as long as you are sticking with the same form, I would expect should be fine (full ATX?). Your PSU, I'm not confident enough to really say one way or the other on what you *should* do, but afaik, so long as it's been working fine and has the needed wattage (w some headroom hopefully) to run the new components, I think you'd be fine. SSD's for sure, and if you do decide to replace the two smallies I recommend you get an m.2 that will snap right in onto your new mobo (most z370 ATX's and smaller have at least one slot). one less sata cable to manage, and you can find some very good deals (you may want to "re-research" and determine if it's actually worth it to buy NVMe - my own conclusion personally was an m.2 3D NAND SSD was plenty good enough as opposed to an m.2 NVMe of equal capacity, which would have cost hundreds more for a hardly noticible performance boost).

I'm running onboard graphics so I can't really comment on the video card compatibility. I know for my purposes I really dont need one, and, the newest Intel graphics (UHD630) are actually pretty good. I read GTA5 runs smooth albeit at 720 res, but are you gaming, or is it just for need of the dual monitors setup? You should research more about what UHD630 is capable of, as well as (maybe?) find Z370 that makes your desired setup possible. If you don't need VGA you'd save a lot of money in that area if it is possible to get on with just the onboard. The thing I am not sure of is how touchscreens are connected, and I would guess it's DP, in which case you may need a gfx card afterall.

I hope this helps at least in supporting your decision! I just finished upgrading from a 9 year old quad core laptop to an i5 8400, and it's a whole new world. I got so used to Traktor pausing 5-10 seconds each time I open the menu, I get confused now at those sorts of delays now being instaneous. I have yet to experience choppy sound, noticeable latency or distortions etc in DAW/others. Serum VST performs flawlessly... and, i can finally run my ASUS monitor at full res of 2560 (I think thats the number) instead of 1920. And that is with the onboard IG.

Keep us updated!
Thanks for your response. Based on what research I had done, along with yours and others responses in other forum sections, here's what I ended up purchasing:

i7-8700K (8th gen) - 6 core
ASRock Z370 Extreme 4
Samsung 860 EVO NAND SSD M.2 (500GB - will be my OS/boot drive)
GSkill Trident Z DDR4-3600 16GB (2 x 8GB)
Vantec 3-port Firewire 400 PCIe Host Card
(and in case I find I need it - and it was fairly inexpensive): ASUS NVidia GEFORCE GT710 Graphics Card (HDMI, DVI, VGA compatible)

Also picked up a PLANAR 27" touch screen (10-touch point) which will act as my "mixer", keeping my current screen for tracking and editing.

I won't be able to assemble anything until I've finished a couple of records I've just been green-lighted to mix, so it'll most likely be mid-May before I get to the actual installing of these upgrades, but I'll check back and let you all know how things go.

Thanks again for your help!
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbroom View Post
Thanks for your response. Based on what research I had done, along with yours and others responses in other forum sections, here's what I ended up purchasing:

i7-8700K (8th gen) - 6 core
ASRock Z370 Extreme 4
Samsung 860 EVO NAND SSD M.2 (500GB - will be my OS/boot drive)
GSkill Trident Z DDR4-3600 16GB (2 x 8GB)
Vantec 3-port Firewire 400 PCIe Host Card
(and in case I find I need it - and it was fairly inexpensive): ASUS NVidia GEFORCE GT710 Graphics Card (HDMI, DVI, VGA compatible)

Also picked up a PLANAR 27" touch screen (10-touch point) which will act as my "mixer", keeping my current screen for tracking and editing.

I won't be able to assemble anything until I've finished a couple of records I've just been green-lighted to mix, so it'll most likely be mid-May before I get to the actual installing of these upgrades, but I'll check back and let you all know how things go.

Thanks again for your help!
Hey, this looks like a solid build for sure - thanks for the update
Let us know how it goes. Gratz!
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:17 AM   #8
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Looks good. The only thing I'd say is that I've generally got better DPC latency performance with AMD graphics cards than with nvidia. I've got an nvidia card in my gaming box, but my media production workstations all use AMD.
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:39 PM   #9
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Looks good. The only thing I'd say is that I've generally got better DPC latency performance with AMD graphics cards than with nvidia. I've got an nvidia card in my gaming box, but my media production workstations all use AMD.
Interesting point. I hadn't considered this as an issue as I'd not experienced latency because of graphics...at least I don't believe I have. So then noob question in reply, will an AMD graphics card work with an Intel processor and a similar MOBO? I've already purchased the CPU and MOBO so I can't turn back on those.
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Old 04-30-2018, 11:47 AM   #10
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... will an AMD graphics card work with an Intel processor and a similar MOBO? I've already purchased the CPU and MOBO so I can't turn back on those.
Yes, both Nvidia and AMD graphics cards will work with your CPU/MOBO combo.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:20 PM   #11
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Interesting point. I hadn't considered this as an issue as I'd not experienced latency because of graphics...at least I don't believe I have. So then noob question in reply, will an AMD graphics card work with an Intel processor and a similar MOBO? I've already purchased the CPU and MOBO so I can't turn back on those.
Should we assume that you know what DPC latency is? It's not the round trip latency of your audio interface, but it can cause problems running at small buffer sizes.
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Old 05-03-2018, 07:46 PM   #12
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Should we assume that you know what DPC latency is? It's not the round trip latency of your audio interface, but it can cause problems running at small buffer sizes.
Well, assuming can cause many other problems...but I do know what Deferred Procedure Call is. The point I was making was I hadn't considered the graphics card as having enough of a driver issue to impact my work. As DPC can apply to anything with a driver, it really could be anything within the Windows system. I hadn't considered the graphics card as part of that equation as, until now, I've used the onboard graphics from my current MOBO which has worked just fine for the many years I've used it.

My response question was one of compatibility with the rest of the items in my build being Intel-based items, not AMD. So I believe my question was a fair one.
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:32 AM   #13
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All good. Just checking to know whether or not to explain DPC latency.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:20 AM   #14
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All good. Just checking to know whether or not to explain DPC latency.
Cool. Thanks!
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