Old 06-18-2017, 09:56 PM   #1
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default "Until" pop/rock. first song posted here.

Hello, longtime lurker. infrequent poster. Doing the best I can by myself in my basement.

Anyhoo, I've been working on an album on/off for over a year. I think this song is just about done. Appreciate some feedback on the mix.

Thanks in advance!

Sam


https://soundcloud.com/sam-martin-80.../until/s-AJ0XG
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2017, 10:42 PM   #2
msundh
Human being with feelings
 
msundh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,156
Default

I liked this!
Lots of variation.
The only thing was the guitar lick in the beginning. Have you tried adding a second? I think it would sound good with harmonies.
__________________
Win10 64bit, Core i7 16GB, Focurite 18i8, Schecter Telecaster, Yamaha AC3R
https://soundcloud.com/mikaelsundh
msundh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 04:34 AM   #3
sammydix
Human being with feelings
 
sammydix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,371
Default

Very fine songwriting. I don't listen to too much pop, but I could listen to this more than a whooooole lot of other stuff in the genre. Nice balance in the mix too.
sammydix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 10:44 AM   #4
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

thanks for giving a listen and giving some feedback! I seem to struggle with getting my mixes to sound good on a variety of systems.

Msundh--I'll have to experiment with your suggestion and see how it sounds.

Sam
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 10:59 AM   #5
G-Sun
Human being with feelings
 
G-Sun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 6,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammartin23 View Post
Hello, longtime lurker. infrequent poster. Doing the best I can by myself in my basement.

Anyhoo, I've been working on an album on/off for over a year. I think this song is just about done. Appreciate some feedback on the mix.

Thanks in advance!

Sam


https://soundcloud.com/sam-martin-80.../until/s-AJ0XG
Nice!
Intro feels interesting.
Solo-guitar feels a little out of style arrangement-wise.
Many good elements.
A little pitchy on chorus,
and could be served with some nice produced backgrouund-vocals.

I feel the rock/guitar-part should be softened, rethinked, focusing a little more in the pop-direction.
Nice drums.

Very well done if this is the first you've made!
__________________
Reaper x64, win 8.1
G-Sun.no - Music Blog - My music
G-Sun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #6
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

G-sun, thanks for your comments. I appreciate your insight.

I actually have struggled with the bridge/solo for a long time. I agree it could be better. Were you imagining more of a synth/orchestra/violin type of groove there instead of the dirty guitars and guitar solo?

Ive been trying to avoid much autotune/melodyne on the lead vocals out of principle but maybe here and there. This is actually a hard song for me to sing and not drift a little on those held chorus notes.

Ive been singing all my life but i admit i am clueless how to write or produce the type of bg vocals you mention. I know exactly what you mean, though.

Ive dabbled in using daw's for a long time but this album is my first serious project where it's just me for everything.

Sam
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 08:56 PM   #7
jeranx
Human being with feelings
 
jeranx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Région de Caen, Normandie
Posts: 315
Default Lazy guy

Hi Sam. (I like violent titles....)

By this title I mean : did you just began ?
Is this your 2 only songs ?
Is it your voice ?
Do you play some or is it VSTI ?

To be sincere, I prefer "Haunted" by far but both sounds very good to me. In a way, it reminds me some 80's american pop.

You deserve to make some more of this.

Excuse my English. Bye
__________________
https://hearthis.at/jeranx-qd/
https://soundcloud.com/thierry-vastel
Un peu fort et .. au casque
jeranx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 09:49 PM   #8
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

Jeranx,

My thread title was meant to mean this was the first time ive posted a song in this forum for some critical opinions. Not that it is the first song ive done with reaper or a DAW. I actually helped my band make an album in the early 2000'S on cakewalk pro audio 9, but my lead guitar player at the time was a computer genius who made a lot of difficult things easy. Since then ive dabbled in recording some songs in reaper (and tracktion for a bit) but this is my first really serious effort since then at trying to really get some of my songs recorded well. And i am no computer genius. Ive been trying to do it all myself and hopefully get better as i go.

My album is going to have 9 songs total i think. 8 new ones and a prev recorded one that im proud of. Mostly pop rockish i guess. They are mostly done except for some vocal recording and some mixing. And perhaps trying to incorporate some good ideas from crital listeners who may notice things i dont or suggest things i didnt think of.

All the singing is me.

Drums are ezdrummer2. Bass and most of the synths i use in some other songs are mostly sampletank 3. I actually play most of the vsti parts except for drums on a Yourock guitar midi controller as im not a piano player. Use a couple samples here and there. Guitars are me playing direct and then using mostly Scuffham S-gear.

I grew up in the 80's so that makes perfect sense and brings a smile to my face!!

Thank you! Im glad you like "Haunted". It takes me back to a very sad day in my life but has a little light at the end i like to think.

Sam
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 07:55 AM   #9
jeranx
Human being with feelings
 
jeranx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Région de Caen, Normandie
Posts: 315
Default Re

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammartin23 View Post
Jeranx,

My thread title was meant to mean
Hi Sam. That's what I meant by "Excuse my English".
I've learned it from 77 to 81 then I left school. Then I practiced it mostly in India
for a while and now with my Airbnb guests.

I'll follow you on Soundcloud. Hope you'll share the coming songs

Anyway, keep doing this
__________________
https://hearthis.at/jeranx-qd/
https://soundcloud.com/thierry-vastel
Un peu fort et .. au casque
jeranx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 08:50 AM   #10
msundh
Human being with feelings
 
msundh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,156
Default

Listened​ a second time.
I agree with g-sun about the disted guitar.
I don't agree with you about pitch correction when it comes to recordings. Live maybe.
One goal: make it sound as good as possible.
Hunted is a much better production, but I liked this song better.
__________________
Win10 64bit, Core i7 16GB, Focurite 18i8, Schecter Telecaster, Yamaha AC3R
https://soundcloud.com/mikaelsundh
msundh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 09:51 AM   #11
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18,801
Default

Nice job!

Quote:
Ive been trying to avoid much autotune/melodyne on the lead vocals out of principle but maybe here and there.
That's good, it's good for your singing at the end of the day because you may be tempted to use mixing as a crutch. However, it has to work with the song if you decide to keep it, as there are plenty of songs with slight pitch issues that sound great, but if on notes that are held long, not as much. This is a strength of vibrato FWIW, it can help mask this on longer notes when vibrato is appropriate.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 12:03 PM   #12
G-Sun
Human being with feelings
 
G-Sun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 6,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammartin23 View Post
G-sun, thanks for your comments. I appreciate your insight.

I actually have struggled with the bridge/solo for a long time. I agree it could be better. Were you imagining more of a synth/orchestra/violin type of groove there instead of the dirty guitars and guitar solo?
Sam,

there are many guitar-parts that work well here
yet
0.24; 1.05; is not fitting/serving the song so well. imo
Bridge solo: Goes a little into rock, and seems a little misplaced soundwise. Nice idea though.
You might use your el.guitar, but feel into what would serve the song. Maybe some over-the-top distorted/fx el.guitar?
Or something on the cleaner side?

Quote:
Ive been trying to avoid much autotune/melodyne on the lead vocals out of principle but maybe here and there. This is actually a hard song for me to sing and not drift a little on those held chorus notes.
Your song, your choice, but I think a little pitch-nudging could serve the production

Quote:
Ive been singing all my life but i admit i am clueless how to write or produce the type of bg vocals you mention. I know exactly what you mean, though.
Stacked harmonies, pretty hard tuned, I guess. But, I'm no expert

Quote:
Ive dabbled in using daw's for a long time but this album is my first serious project where it's just me for everything.

Sam
It's no small task at all. You're brave and talented.
Cheers!
__________________
Reaper x64, win 8.1
G-Sun.no - Music Blog - My music
G-Sun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2017, 06:44 PM   #13
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

thanks all for your thoughts/ideas and kind words of encouragement!

Plan to work on the bridge and see if I can't come up with something better. However, at the moment I'm starting to hate this song I've been listening to it so much so I'm gonna work on getting some more vocals recorded for other songs and then revisit it in a week or two with hopefully fresher ears.

I've been telling friends/co-workers this project will be done in "a couple months" for about 8 months now. Gotta get crackin' on it. I don't know, you ever get the feeling that the closer you get to finishing your own album you sort of drag your heels a bit, as then it's out there for everyone to hear and judge, which is frightening in a way??

I'll post some more songs here as I go.

thanks again!

Sam
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2017, 10:46 AM   #14
HonorableBedlamite
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 5
Default

Thanks for sharing this. Enjoyed it immensely. Good singing.
HonorableBedlamite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2017, 06:47 PM   #15
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HonorableBedlamite View Post
Thanks for sharing this. Enjoyed it immensely. Good singing.
Thanks! Im glad you liked it!
Sam
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2017, 03:44 AM   #16
barrymk
Human being with feelings
 
barrymk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stratford upon Avon UK
Posts: 743
Default

Complex pop and well done too. Re Mikael's comment on retuning I'm with him all the way for a recording. I've been a pro and semi-pro singer over 50 years and I make use of Reaper's Reatune without shame. I rarely use it on lead vocal as I only sing in keys I can pitch. I might dub in the occasional note where I ran out of breath and lost it but for BVs I take my best take on each track and manually correct as needed. Re-tune, manual Corection set to the song key is your friend, shitty autotune for voiceless dancers it isn't and it's quick too.

PS Sometimes leaving a project for a month then coming back to it makes all the difference.
__________________
Ageing, failed rockstar lurching from one cup of tea to another with no idea where the next slice of cake is coming from. https://barrykingsbeer.bandcamp.com/

Last edited by barrymk; 07-03-2017 at 04:07 AM.
barrymk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2017, 08:36 PM   #17
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrymk View Post
Complex pop and well done too. Re Mikael's comment on retuning I'm with him all the way for a recording. I've been a pro and semi-pro singer over 50 years and I make use of Reaper's Reatune without shame. I rarely use it on lead vocal as I only sing in keys I can pitch. I might dub in the occasional note where I ran out of breath and lost it but for BVs I take my best take on each track and manually correct as needed. Re-tune, manual Corection set to the song key is your friend, shitty autotune for voiceless dancers it isn't and it's quick too.

PS Sometimes leaving a project for a month then coming back to it makes all the difference.
Thanks Barrymk! I did use a touch of reatune on one i worked on a cpl nights ago that just had one bad note in an otherwise good take. Just has to be a note i can split without any cracks/pops on playback.
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2017, 02:55 AM   #18
barrymk
Human being with feelings
 
barrymk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stratford upon Avon UK
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammartin23 View Post
Just has to be a note i can split without any cracks/pops on playback.
I'm curious as to why you would split out a note to Reatune it? Solo the track, put cursor in front of the first note to be worked on, open Reatune and play song to end of required section. The notes come up on the Reatune screen, you draw in your corrected note line/s and that's it. No splits. no pops etc.

It also lets you analyse your vocal technique. I struggle to sing "OOOHS" especially falsetto and Reatune shows me that I invariably start them flat then go sharp until I tail off again. Something I can work on.

Cheers
__________________
Ageing, failed rockstar lurching from one cup of tea to another with no idea where the next slice of cake is coming from. https://barrykingsbeer.bandcamp.com/
barrymk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2017, 08:16 AM   #19
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrymk View Post
I'm curious as to why you would split out a note to Reatune it? Solo the track, put cursor in front of the first note to be worked on, open Reatune and play song to end of required section. The notes come up on the Reatune screen, you draw in your corrected note line/s and that's it. No splits. no pops etc.

It also lets you analyse your vocal technique. I struggle to sing "OOOHS" especially falsetto and Reatune shows me that I invariably start them flat then go sharp until I tail off again. Something I can work on.

Cheers
Had no idea one could do that with reatune. Ill have to give it a try. For sure i barely scratch the surface of reaper in my usage. Thanks for the tip!
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2017, 10:01 AM   #20
benf
Human being with feelings
 
benf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: France
Posts: 2,104
Default

Hi sammartin,

Nice song here. Sounds fine. I like a lot your backing vocals, is perfection this important ? Don't need any melodyne reworking in my opinion.

Just would have tried to put some phaser effect on the voice on the second verse.
__________________
Listen and download my music on https://benest.bandcamp.com/
benf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 01:47 PM   #21
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benf View Post
Hi sammartin,

Nice song here. Sounds fine. I like a lot your backing vocals, is perfection this important ? Don't need any melodyne reworking in my opinion.

Just would have tried to put some phaser effect on the voice on the second verse.
Hello and thanks for your feedback. I guess I don't know when I'll do another project like this, I've had some of these songs written for about 15 years so I just want them to sound as good as possible, within my ability that is. And I'm mainly a singer so getting the vocals really good is my biggest goal and also my biggest struggle so far. I thought programming the drums would be the most time consuming but I was mistaken. Vocals have been far more difficult for me, as I think with lots of people, I am my own worst critic.

Phaser on the vocals in V2, that never crossed my mind. I'll have to throw one on and see what happens. Are there any other reference songs that do that off the top of your head so I know what kind of vibe you are getting at?

Sam
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 02:12 AM   #22
benf
Human being with feelings
 
benf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: France
Posts: 2,104
Default

Well, I don't have any particular song sample in mind, but what I'm thinking of should sound a little like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovFdU0VuvEc
__________________
Listen and download my music on https://benest.bandcamp.com/
benf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 03:02 AM   #23
HugoRibeiroDotCom
Human being with feelings
 
HugoRibeiroDotCom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 836
Default

Basement/bedroom producers are the future.. you have proof right here.
Very nicely done. It sounds pretty much radio-ready.

cheers
__________________
Get Real Live Drum Tracks @ www.hugoribeiro.com
Macbook Pro | Motu 8Pre (x2) | Apogee Duet 2
Sonor Drums | Sabian Cymbals | Remo Drumheads | Vater Drumsticks
HugoRibeiroDotCom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 03:49 AM   #24
barrymk
Human being with feelings
 
barrymk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stratford upon Avon UK
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benf View Post

I like a lot your backing vocals, is perfection this important ? Don't need any melodyne reworking in my opinion.
We all have different standards. for some "good enough" is good enough and that's fine but if everyone was happy to settle for second best we'd all be driving these:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg robin.jpg (9.9 KB, 20 views)
__________________
Ageing, failed rockstar lurching from one cup of tea to another with no idea where the next slice of cake is coming from. https://barrykingsbeer.bandcamp.com/
barrymk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2017, 11:50 AM   #25
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoRibeiroDotCom View Post
Basement/bedroom producers are the future.. you have proof right here.
Very nicely done. It sounds pretty much radio-ready.

cheers
Thanks for the kind words!
Sam
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 01:10 PM   #26
BCF1
Human being with feelings
 
BCF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: California
Posts: 423
Default

Yeah there's merrit to the dicussions going on above, sure.
I'm gonna comment on my first listen and first impressions.
Sounds Great !! Nothing jumped out as an issue. Was very enjoyable even though not my genre. Really liked Haunted also.

More analytical - I agree with some others that a few guitar tones could be altered to better fit or enhance the feel. Somebody mentioned more/layered backing vox, I agree with that. I sing like a swine in heat that has a large thorn in it's foot, so I either didn't notice or didn't mind any pitchiness on your vocals.

Just my $0.02

overall sounds great to me
BCF1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 10:58 AM   #27
sammartin23
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF1 View Post
Yeah there's merrit to the dicussions going on above, sure.
I'm gonna comment on my first listen and first impressions.
Sounds Great !! Nothing jumped out as an issue. Was very enjoyable even though not my genre. Really liked Haunted also.

More analytical - I agree with some others that a few guitar tones could be altered to better fit or enhance the feel. Somebody mentioned more/layered backing vox, I agree with that. I sing like a swine in heat that has a large thorn in it's foot, so I either didn't notice or didn't mind any pitchiness on your vocals.

Just my $0.02

overall sounds great to me
Thanks for giving a listen and sharing your thoughts!

Still slowly working on some other songs, havent made it back to this one yet to see if i can make the bridge/lead better. Thinking of maybe trying to incorporate my 14 yr old son playing violin in it.
sammartin23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.