Old 03-15-2009, 12:02 PM   #41
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I've uploaded a SONAR created OMF2 file to help with testing. It is from the same (17) track audio project that would cause REAPER to crash that I described in my previous post. The OMF file I uploaded is the one that I was finally able to open that came in at 1:28 (263MB). I archived it down to about 63MB.




Cheers,

Billy Buck

Last edited by billybk1; 03-15-2009 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:27 PM   #42
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Wow. Gonna install and give it a try for some stuff. Very very nice indeed. Still almost can't believe it to be honest. This is one of the features i thought never got implemented. I love Reaper and the open plugin system/extention stuff thats in there.
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:51 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybk1 View Post
I've uploaded a SONAR created OMF2 file to help with testing. It is from the same (17) track audio project that would cause REAPER to crash that I described in my previous post. The OMF file I uploaded is the one that I was finally able to open that came in at 1:28 (263MB). I archived it down to about 63MB.

http://rapidshare.com/files/20962908...F_test.7z.html


Cheers,

Billy Buck
Thanks for your efforts! Unfortunately you have chosen the wrong export format, this is a .cwb file (which is basically a Wave file so it wouldn't be too hard to build an extension for opening it correctly in Reaper).

In case you want to upload a large file again, could you choose one that crashes Reaper? That would really help!

To be honest, I was almost sure that larger files will cause problems. At the moment I have only files of a few megabytes so I couldn't check yet what happens if I try to load a large file.
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:44 PM   #44
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This is really great news! Thanks for your work on this, 404!!!
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:51 PM   #45
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This is very cool. I can upload an OMF from Cubase if you need another test file.

Great work man. Is the *.dll available to download and try?
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:05 PM   #46
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The download link is here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=33
Maybe pipelineaudio can put a link into the first post?


Looks like I have to do another major rewrite to get rid of SQLite... but after that, it should be lightning fast
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:07 PM   #47
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I found it. I tried it with a small file and it worked perfectly. I tried it with a real project and it crashed.

The project was 27mb.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:11 PM   #48
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Could you upload the file that caused the crash?
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:32 PM   #49
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Let me ask, are these single OMF or "reference" OMF's? The projects I'm testing are writing the OMF files as a reference and copying the media to the OMF folder.

Cubase has the option to export either or so I don't know which your dll is trying to read. Or does it matter?
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:43 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
Thanks for your efforts! Unfortunately you have chosen the wrong export format, this is a .cwb file (which is basically a Wave file so it wouldn't be too hard to build an extension for opening it correctly in Reaper).
Hmmm.....it is a valid OMF2 file. Since it came out of SONAR it was originally a .cwb file which is one of it's own proprietary file formats for savings projects created in SONAR. Like in any DAW, once you do your first save it is going to convert into it's own file format. But, once converted to a OMF file, any OMF compatible host should be able to open it. SONAR is able to open OMF files and it had no problem opening it.

Quote:
In case you want to upload a large file again, could you choose one that crashes Reaper? That would really help!
Okay, I am in the process of uploading another OMF2 file. It is about 524MB unarchived. This file does not overtly crash REAPER like the previous one, but it does put it into a "Not Responding" state while it attempts to load the OMF2 file, but the file never loads. Watching the Windows Task Manager I notice the memory usage goes through the roof. From 200MB to 1.83GB in a matter of seconds once I try to open the file and stays that way until I close the reaper.exe.


EDIT: BTW, this OMF file that I am uploading to get around having it come from a previously saved SONAR project (.cwp or .cwb project file) I simply imported the wave files into SONAR and without ever saving the project exported to an OMF2. In the real world I don't see things being done this way as normally you would be working and saving projects (in your native DAW format) and then saving the project to an OMF to share with someone else or take to another DAW.



HTH,

Billy Buck

PS: the OMF test file is about 22% uploaded. I will edit this post with the download link once it is finished.

http://rapidshare.com/files/20972987...m_test.7z.html

Last edited by billybk1; 03-15-2009 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Added download link
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:43 PM   #51
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Lawrence: It should be able to read both.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:11 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Let me ask, are these single OMF or "reference" OMF's? The projects I'm testing are writing the OMF files as a reference and copying the media to the OMF folder.

Cubase has the option to export either or so I don't know which your dll is trying to read. Or does it matter?
Hey Lawrence, typically you are going to want to embed audio in the single OMF file. Except if you are exporting for a 24bit PT system as some PT systems do not support 24bit interleaved stereo files then you will need to do the reference OMF's. This will split all stereo tracks into dual mono which will mean two additional tracks for every stereo track in your project.

Cheers,

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Old 03-15-2009, 06:28 PM   #53
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I usually do it the other way (reference) but I suppose it doesn't matter as long as the files get pointed to and loaded properly.

Thanks.

P.S. That first file you uploaded wasn't OMF. I downloaded it and changed the extender to *.omf and it wouldn't load in Cubase.

"Unknown format"
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:50 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I usually do it the other way (reference) but I suppose it doesn't matter as long as the files get pointed to and loaded properly.

Thanks.

P.S. That first file you uploaded wasn't OMF. I downloaded it and changed the extender to *.omf and it wouldn't load in Cubase.

"Unknown format"

Well bloody hell, I uploaded the wrong file!
Sorry about that guys, I am pretty sure the second one is the correct format though. I will see if I can upload one that will actually crash REAPER. It most likely will be a much larger file though. It appears the larger the OMF file the more prone REAPER is to crash.

Cheers,

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Old 03-15-2009, 09:46 PM   #55
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billybk1: Grabbing the new file now, let's see what I can do...
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:00 AM   #56
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Okay, here is a large OMF that does make REAPER eventually crash after a few minutes. It is over 700MB, so I had to archive it into 2 separate files. Once you download them they will unarchive back to one OMF file.

http://rapidshare.com/files/20976932...tal_G_3.7z.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/20975473...tal_G_3.7z.002


Cheers,

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Old 03-16-2009, 06:10 AM   #57
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Just two minor pointers for using OMF files that I had to learn the hard way (maybe all of you know already, but anyway):

- avoid "unusual" characters both in OMF file naming and the audio clips, stay with alphanumeric. For example I had a project using german "umlauts" (ä, ü, ö) in the audio clips - no go!

- be aware of the Win 2GB filesize limit when using embedded OMFs. (edit: that's only for old FAT32, no? not sure about that)

and 404NotFound:

Thanks for your work, much appreciated!

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Old 03-16-2009, 07:12 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
- be aware of the Win 2GB filesize limit when using embedded OMFs. (edit: that's only for old FAT32, no? not sure about that)
IIRC OMF doesn't allow files larger than 2GB by design - or was it just a limitation of some OMF-aware applications? Anyway I have yet to find a platform-independent way to access data behind the 2GB point on 32bit systems. Unix supports it natively, VC++ 6 doesn't.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:21 AM   #59
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Keep up the great work 404!

This is going to save me soo much hassle converting all of my old songs over.

Thank you VERY much
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:45 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
This is going to save me soo much hassle converting all of my old songs over.
This will help out a whole lot of folks who might be thinking about using REAPER but don't want the hassle of transfering existing projects from their current DAW. All the big boys (Pro Tools, Cubase, Nuendo, SONAR and many others) support OMF, so why not REAPER? It's also great for collaborating with other composers/producers using other DAW's when you can easily transfer projects back & forth.

Yes 404, please do keep up the good work!

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Old 03-16-2009, 08:54 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
IIRC OMF doesn't allow files larger than 2GB by design - or was it just a limitation of some OMF-aware applications? Anyway I have yet to find a platform-independent way to access data behind the 2GB point on 32bit systems. Unix supports it natively, VC++ 6 doesn't.
This limit has to be circumvented even today. In cases where our OMF files are larger than 2 GB, we just create two OMFs. One with half the tracks and the other for the rest.

This is why Reaper is a bit more fiddly than others because you cannot import tracks of another sessions in your own without having to open that session first, then copying the tracks from another instance or project tab of Reaper. The developers may do well to study the import dialogs for session data in other apps, such as Nuendo, DP, Protools and even Logic perhaps.

404, the shots could help you extend and refine your plugin in any case. Can anyone provide screenshots of the DP and Logic import dialogs for session data ? Some of us have Nuendo, so you folks get a screenshot going there. There are some PT (HD or LE+DVToolkit) users here too. Sadly I'm not one of those right now, as I'm working at home on LE without the Digitranslator app.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:45 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
This is why Reaper is a bit more fiddly than others because you cannot import tracks of another sessions in your own without having to open that session first, then copying the tracks from another instance or project tab of Reaper. The developers may do well to study the import dialogs for session data in other apps, such as Nuendo, DP, Protools and even Logic perhaps.
Some thoughts on this - Justin, Schwa, Christophe, this is for you:

We definitely need an import dialog. Shouldn't be too hard to build, maybe even via extensions - I'll do it myself if you point me in the right direction. Anyway, it should work like that:

1. Open the "Open Project" dialog, let the user select a file
2. Use the existing LoadProject implementations to parse the project file into a ProjectStateContext
3. Show a list of the tracks in the project, let the user select the ones to import. There can (and should) also be additional controls like time offset. I'll provide a mockup later.
4. Extract only selected tracks from the ProjectStateContext and insert them into the project

That way we can easily re-use the existing functions for loading projects.
Any comments?
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:44 PM   #63
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I hope they are able to help you out 404, I'm sure they would LOVE to have preliminary OMF support for the release of Reaper 3, its a pretty big feature when it comes to enticing users over...
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:14 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
Some thoughts on this - Justin, Schwa, Christophe, this is for you:

We definitely need an import dialog. Shouldn't be too hard to build, maybe even via extensions - I'll do it myself if you point me in the right direction. Anyway, it should work like that:

1. Open the "Open Project" dialog, let the user select a file
2. Use the existing LoadProject implementations to parse the project file into a ProjectStateContext
3. Show a list of the tracks in the project, let the user select the ones to import. There can (and should) also be additional controls like time offset. I'll provide a mockup later.
4. Extract only selected tracks from the ProjectStateContext and insert them into the project

That way we can easily re-use the existing functions for loading projects.
Any comments?
+1. You should be able to select which tracks to import or not with OMF. I'll post a screenshot of what 404 is talking about in a minute.

404: What's the foreseeable possibility of flipping your code at some point and *exporting* OMF? Not to put the cart before the horse (and it's a fine horse you're building ) but OMF functionality eventually should be two way.

Screenshot of an import dialog with the time options.


http://screencast.com/t/Lv1vNRIJE0


• “Import at Timecode Position” will insert the elements
contained in the OMF file at their original timecode posi-
tions.

This is useful when you want to position every imported element at its ex-
act timecode position, i.e. as it was saved in the OMF file. This way, the
elements will end up at their correct time positions even when the daw is using
uses a different frame rate than the OMF file. This is usually required in a
picture-related context.

• “Import at Absolute Time” will insert the elements con-
tained in the OMF file starting at the timecode position
saved in the file and keeping the relative distances be-
tween the elements.

This is required when the relative positioning of the elements inside the
OMF file needs to be maintained after importing it into the time-
line (even if the daw is set to a different frame rate than the OMF file).
This is usually required in music contexts, where the timing between ob-
jects has highest priority.
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:28 AM   #65
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Okay, as I was doing some OMF import testing in REAPER I noticed this one OMF would not import correctly. The last track (track 7) will not retain it's position data and the wave file clip will always be placed at the beginning of the project timeline instead of at it's correct position (starting @ measure 25). The SONAR created OMF imports correctly back into SONAR 8.3.1. I thought it may be a SONAR issue with it's OMF export, but I was also able to corectly import the OMF into Nuendo 3.2, as well. So the OMF is valid, but REAPER does not fully import it correctly. See the screencasts I created below to illustrate the issue. I have also uploaded the OMF that exhibits the problem:

http://rapidshare.com/files/21030475..._Blues.7z.html




SONAR OMF import:

http://www.screencast.com/t/q5uzZg02

REAPER OMF import (give it a minute as it loads the OMF):

http://www.screencast.com/t/fkwfTWE9PC4




Cheers,

Billy Buck
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:33 AM   #66
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Beta 3:

http://404notfound.bplaced.net/reaper/reaper_omf.dll

Huge performance improvements. NIN - Capital G (700MB) loads in 1:25 here, I think we can live with that.
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:11 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
Beta 3:

http://404notfound.bplaced.net/reaper/reaper_omf.dll

Huge performance improvements. NIN - Capital G (700MB) loads in 1:25 here, I think we can live with that.

Woohoo! I'll checkout the new beta once I get home later tonight.

Cheers,

Billy Buck
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:24 AM   #68
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I just successfully opened a large omf of dialog spread out over 22 minutes. Keep up the great work 404NotFound.

Are there any plans for an export to match the import feature?
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:10 AM   #69
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I successfully exported from nuendo 2 to omf and then into reaper no problems - 400ish mb.

unfortunately it was an old rehearsal of mine which i didn't really need to hear!


great work though 404.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:33 PM   #70
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mac anyone?
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:25 PM   #71
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I'm also looking forward to a mac version but for now I'm testing it in Virtualbox...

Love your work 404!

Regards,
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:33 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
Beta 3:

http://404notfound.bplaced.net/reaper/reaper_omf.dll

Huge performance improvements. NIN - Capital G (700MB) loads in 1:25 here, I think we can live with that.
Hehehe......using your latest OMF beta, not only was I able to successfully load the NIN - Capital G (700MB) OMF, but the load time was only 37 seconds. That is a vast improvement. Also the previous OMF I posted (post #65) where the media on the last track was not being placed at the right place on the timeline opens correctly now, as well.

Awesome job on the OMF fixes and optimizations!

Cheers,

Billy Buck

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Old 03-18-2009, 04:23 PM   #73
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Just for grins & giggles I did a little OMF speed test between SONAR 8.2.1 & REAPER v3a3. I measured the time it took from the moment I clicked on the Open button to begin the OMF unpacking to when the final media file completely finished building it's peak file. It was a neck and neck race, but SONAR came out on top by 1 second. Quite a respectable showing on REAPER's part I must say.

OMF: 14 tracks / 5:04 / 493MB

SONAR: 23 seconds
REAPER: 24 seconds

If you would like to witness how REAPY did:

http://www.screencast.com/t/moeZHPQtIk

Kudos to 404 for the nice OMF import. YOU DA MAN! No rush, but when you can get a chance a REAPER OMF export option would be the veritable cherry on top.


Cheers,

Billy Buck

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Old 03-18-2009, 05:08 PM   #74
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Here is the last one I promise.

OMF: 30 tracks / 3:30 / 624MB

OMF unpack time: 35secs


http://www.screencast.com/t/VdSUC4F3R2


Looking good so far.......

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Old 03-19-2009, 03:02 PM   #75
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I was very excited to see that somebody is developing OMF support for reaper. I got tons of my old cubase songs and I have been waiting for something like this ever since I switched into using Reaper. I am sure it is my most waited feature.

I have tested the beta3.dll and it's certainly not working for me. I did try it with several under 100mb files and whenever I opened a file Reaper got completely stuck. I waited like 10 minutes or so before I eventually had to shut it down from task manager.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:08 PM   #76
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You may need to check if the OMF files were OMF v2 files. The importer does not support OMF v1 files.

Does anyone know how to effectivly combine dual mono files in to a stereo item ? I get a lot of those via OMF, and I'm probably not the only one who needs a practical solution to dual mono files.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:25 PM   #77
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A combination of free item positioning and grouping would be my first suggestion airon. It's not entirely elegant but it would behave just like a stereo pair. It will be cool once several items can be grouped together into a single interrelated item. Until then we can try to corral these things together as best we can.

Regarding the omf translating, unfortunately the format is far from standardized. It's actually quite amazing that there aren't more (or mostly) negative reports since just about every omf exporting software does it differently. 404 is the new hero AFAIC.

Do you have any details to offer about your omf files filter303? Were they exported from PC or Mac, aif or wav file, 16 bit or 24 bit?

I have 2 omf files supposedly exported from the same video editor withing a week of each other and one opens while the other doesn't giving up an error about endianness. My suspicion is they used a different aif container on the one.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:28 PM   #78
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I have double checked the file format and I was using OMF2 not OMF1.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:30 PM   #79
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PC /44.1khz - 16bit .wav
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:41 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filter303 View Post
I have tested the beta3.dll and it's certainly not working for me. I did try it with several under 100mb files and whenever I opened a file Reaper got completely stuck. I waited like 10 minutes or so before I eventually had to shut it down from task manager.
I think it would be helpful if you could archive one of those problem OMF2's and provide a download link so 404NotFound can take a closer look at it. It may be the same issue affecting all of your OMF's.


Cheers,

Billy Buck
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