Using an effect pedal as an insert for mixing

[tjw1979]

I have a cali 1176tx which i would like to use whilst mixing.


So with prerecorded material in mind how do i send a track out through my pedal for tweaking in realtime and commit that sound to the track.

Interface is tascam us1800

[domzy]

Basically, you need to send to your external fx from an output (separate from your main outs) and back in to am input.
You can do this as you if you were recording an input normally, with it's own track record-armed etc. or you can keep it all on the same track & use the ReaInsert plugin - i'm sure there's a video about how to set this up somewhere, which would explain it better than i can.

with regard to specific hardware - there may be issues with the right levels etc.
Foe example, a gtr pedal may expect a hi-z input whereas most interfaces only have line outs.
Best to check (or experiment) with your gear to see what it expects.

[tjw1979]

Great - thanks

I know the pedal can be used for mixing. I know there are jumpers internally to alter the pedal's sensitivity.


It is a clone of an 1176 by origin effects.

If anyone has any videos how to achieve this please do let me know 👌

Thanks

Tim

[serr]

An 1176 "clone" as a stomp box? Curious...

The 1/4" outputs on that Tascam appear to be wired for balanced output only. (As opposed to the common balanced/unbalanced outputs that are designed to be plugged into both ways.) Maybe someone can verify that?

You may need to grab a couple DI boxes to make a more proper connection to the hi-z unbalanced instrument connections on the pedal. Important! If the balanced outputs aren't designed to be able to short the ring and sleeve (pins 3 and 1) together for unbalanced, you could damage the unit! So don't just wing it like that unless someone can confirm it's OK!

Use passive transformer DI boxes for this. Not active!
Output to a DI box (Backwards! Connected to the balanced output of the box.)
The 1/4 "input" from that box to the input of the stomp box.
Output from the stomp box to the 2nd DI box input (using a DI box normally for this connection).
Balanced output from the DI box to an input on the interface.

Start with your output level (sending to the 1st DI box) down -30db. Bring the level up until you have the expected level there.

The DI boxes don't have to be special and expensive. Any stomp box isn't going to be audiophile anyway. Getting a proper signal level with proper impedance is 99% of the equation here.

[ashcat_lt]

1. Impedance and Level are completely different things that too many people mix up too often. For impedance, all that really matters is that the input (load) impedance be significantly bigger than the output (source) impedance. We shoot for at least a 10:1 ratio, but bigger is always better. A low impedance line output will have no issue driving a high impedance “instrument input”. It is probably capable of getting louder than most pedals “expect”, but that’s a different issue, and you can usually just turn it down in Reaper to compensate.

B. The outputs from that interface are TRS balanced, but it won’t hurt anything to connect them to an unbalanced input via a normal TS “instrument” cable. I have one and do it all the time.

The only reason you might need a direct box in this situation is if the pedal gets power from the wall and the connection causes a ground loop hum. Otherwise just plug the thing in and rock.

[serr]

My concern would have been shorting pins 1&3. Most units are designed to allow that nowadays. But they're usually labeled "balanced/unbalanced". Just pausing at the "balanced" labeling to verify that!

Short version on impedance: If you plug something in and the signal goes from low and washed out sounding to distortion with no in-between (or stays washed out at full gain), check the manuals and impedance.

With the above blessing, I'd plug in and go. Start with levels all the way down first! Bring them up with care. It should work just fine. The stomp box will be generating magnitudes more noise, etc itself than that connection.

[ashcat_lt]

Yeah most modern gear can handle this kind of “rude” unbalancing without damage. At worst, there might be a loss of about 6db, but that’s not usually a huge deal. Some older gear with active differential outputs might not like it, but only if it’s poorly designed and not properly protected. I’m pretty sure this one is impedance balance and shorting the ring to ground can’t hurt anything. Like I said, I do it all the time.

[tjw1979]

Originally Posted by serr

An 1176 "clone" as a stomp box? Curious...

The 1/4" outputs on that Tascam appear to be wired for balanced output only. (As opposed to the common balanced/unbalanced outputs that are designed to be plugged into both ways.) Maybe someone can verify that?

Yes it's a quite large footprint stomp box. I've always used it on my board in my bass player days on my board.

Google it, it does sound incredible.

Frustratingly there is a video on youpube that shows it being used in this context on a drum buss but not how to connect it up.

I'm coming back to reaper after a good 5 year hiatus and would love to use this in a mix

[ashcat_lt]

Pick an output from the interface. Probably either 3 or 4. Connect that to the pedal input. Pick an input on the interface. Probably one of the ones with 1/4 hole (9-14). Connect that to the pedal output. Put ReaInsert on the track. Tell it which input and output you chose. Do the latency ping thing and then you should be ready to go.

[tjw1979]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

Pick an output from the interface. Probably either 3 or 4. Connect that to the pedal input. Pick an input on the interface. Probably one of the ones with 1/4 hole (9-14). Connect that to the pedal output. Put ReaInsert on the track. Tell it which input and output you chose. Do the latency ping thing and then you should be ready to go.

Thanks a lot.

[ashcat_lt]

TBH I’ve never really used ReaInsert, opting instead to just set up a Hardware Send from the track and return to a new track. You have to then compensate the latency manually. But when it comes time to “print” the effect, I’m not sure how/if that works on ReaInsert. You’d definitely have to right click the record arm button and choose to record the output, but I feel like that’s going to try to overwrite what’s already there, and...???

[tjw1979]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

TBH I’ve never really used ReaInsert, opting instead to just set up a Hardware Send from the track and return to a new track. You have to then compensate the latency manually. But when it comes time to “print” the effect, I’m not sure how/if that works on ReaInsert. You’d definitely have to right click the record arm button and choose to record the output, but I feel like that’s going to try to overwrite what’s already there, and...???

Thanks mate - that is more in line with what I want to do.
How exactly do i create a hardware send and return?

[ashcat_lt]

The return is just another track like recording anything else. You can setup a hardware send from any track in its I/O panel.