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Old 10-05-2020, 07:58 PM   #1
Glennbo
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Default Any real advantage to WineHQ vs stock distro of WINE?

Today I noticed that Xubuntu was offering me an upgrade to 20.04 button, so I clicked it and . . . nothing at all happened.

Then after thirty minutes of searching around the net I find that WineHQ's version of wine-staging has an "FAudio dependency issue".

https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=32205

Then after an hour of getting nowhere trying to fix the broken mess, I decided to just nuke all traces of anything that said WINE, and finally was able to do the 18.04 to 20.04 upgrade.

After the upgrade installed, I tried installing wine-staging from WineHQ and got more erroneous error messages, and after another extra hour of dicking with it, finally got it to install and function, but now I'm wondering if all that extra hassle was actually worth it.

I'm not planning on changing anything right now since it finally works again, but in the future I'm thinking I might opt out of using WineHQ's version of WINE unless there is truly something better about it besides creating broken packages that stop it from updating itself and preventing OS upgrades.
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Old 10-06-2020, 01:26 PM   #2
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When I have a core group of audio tools working, I vehemently refuse to upgrade the distros surrounding them. In one case, it's Ubuntu Studio 19.10, with wine-staging 5.10. (My core means NI, IK, U-he, KV331, Wusik, and a few dozen freewares)

Another drive has Ubuntu Studio 20.04 with wine-staging 5.16. Two other external drives have the same basic content, but I'm willing to test OS related things, and a couple more installs are on SD cards, and Puppy Linux based squash-fs save-files.

I find switching from an installed distro-based wine to a wineHQ repository wine akin to defeating Commander Spock in 3D space chess, so a minimalist distro is often the best base camp from which I attempt to conquer.

If 'one computer with one OS' is a paradigim, (or a grave-marker?),
it will never be one I use concurrently with oxygen-intake.
...drat, that feels like a Friday night post, and it's only tuesday afternoon)
Cheers

Last edited by 4duhwinnn; 10-06-2020 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 10-06-2020, 01:36 PM   #3
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I should mention my main wine concern is fixing some otherwise great softwares
apparantly daft, or corrupt routines for their product to find
only the obvious internet connection when it's fully cloaked in win 10
or Mac 0Sex. There are a few products purchased at heavy discounts from a linux internet setup,
but after installing them with wine,
their registration system says it 'can't find the internet'.

This may not be a thing wine could address, but giving it
'the old college try' would sure be encouraging.
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Old 10-06-2020, 04:53 PM   #4
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I stopped buying plugins for Windows when I switched to Linux, but have bought hundreds of dollars worth of native Linux plugins since then. Even though I have Kontakt with it's full factory library working, I won't buy any more samples for it, because of Windows copy protection schemes that might prevent them from installing, plus I don't want to support anything made for Windows any longer and am voting with my wallet.

Since I record real bass, real drums, and real guitars I only need a handful of virtual instruments, which I already have with Kontakt, Piano Essentials, B4 Organ, FM7, Arturia MiniMoog V, and some others. Basically the same virtual instruments I used from back when I was still running Windows.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:07 AM   #5
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Try pianoteq too! Another awesome native plugin.
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Old 10-07-2020, 06:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
After the upgrade installed, I tried installing wine-staging from WineHQ and got more erroneous error messages, and after another extra hour of dicking with it, finally got it to install and function, but now I'm wondering if all that extra hassle was actually worth it.
Staging is the playground for developers to test new ideas, so it contains much more bugs than the version provided by your distribution.

Therefore I wouldn't use wine-staging unless there's a specific problem you're trying to solve with it. If the version that comes with Ubuntu works for you, there's no reason to upgrade.

If it doesn't try the latest stable version, then the development version and only as a last resort try staging.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
Try pianoteq too! Another awesome native plugin.
I have the demo of Pianoteq and it does sound great, although to my ears in a side by side comparison, my favorite is still the 932MB 1,144 sample Yamaha CF3 .gig format piano that you can download for free to use with LinuxSampler, or others that can load .gig format.

https://www.linuxsampler.org/instruments.html

If Modartt would make a single instrument version for under a hundred bucks they might persuade me to buy the BechsteinDG.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Held View Post
Staging is the playground for developers to test new ideas, so it contains much more bugs than the version provided by your distribution.

Therefore I wouldn't use wine-staging unless there's a specific problem you're trying to solve with it. If the version that comes with Ubuntu works for you, there's no reason to upgrade.

If it doesn't try the latest stable version, then the development version and only as a last resort try staging.
I used staging because long ago when I was first trying to get Kontakt up and running in WINE, that was the suggested version to use. That was more than a year ago though. Since I have everything working now, I'll be leaving it like it is, but in the future if I have to set things up again, I think I'll try the stock distro version, so there will be fewer chefs in the kitchen so to speak.
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Old 10-09-2020, 12:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I have the demo of Pianoteq and it does sound great, although to my ears in a side by side comparison, my favorite is still the 932MB 1,144 sample Yamaha CF3 .gig format piano that you can download for free to use with LinuxSampler, or others that can load .gig format.

https://www.linuxsampler.org/instruments.html

If Modartt would make a single instrument version for under a hundred bucks they might persuade me to buy the BechsteinDG.
Try it again and pay attention to how it plays. I found it a lot more "organic" than any samples I've ever played. You can hear how the vibrations and resonances build up when you really start to hit it. Play it softly then hit it hard then back to softly. To me it's the one vsti that comes closest to the real thing! It's kind of more than just the sounds of samples.

Of course that's just from a player perspective, I'm sure that in the mix you won't really notice!
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Old 10-10-2020, 09:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
Try it again and pay attention to how it plays. I found it a lot more "organic" than any samples I've ever played. You can hear how the vibrations and resonances build up when you really start to hit it. Play it softly then hit it hard then back to softly. To me it's the one vsti that comes closest to the real thing! It's kind of more than just the sounds of samples.

Of course that's just from a player perspective, I'm sure that in the mix you won't really notice!
I rendered a measure of a song I'm currently working on using each of three different pianos, NOT in this order Pianoteq, Kontakt Grand, LinuxSampler Grand. They all sound good, some fit the groove better. See if you can tell which is which. They are NOT in the order I named them above.

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14124225
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Old 10-10-2020, 02:44 PM   #11
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I can't tell!

But like I said, I think there is a difference when playing, especially when your start playing harder, it's like there's a buildup of resonances that you don't get with samples, it just seems more real from the playing perspective. Probably unnoticeable in the mix!

Nice drum solo at the end!
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Old 10-10-2020, 03:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I can't tell!
They were, Kontakt Grand, Pianoteq, and LinuxSampler Grand.

All three sound good, and each would fit in better in some circumstances. I'm actually using the Kontakt Grand piano in my project, because with all the other parts (which were muted for this test) like strings, horns, guitars, Etc., the Kontakt piano took up less space giving the other instruments some room.

Quote:
But like I said, I think there is a difference when playing, especially when your start playing harder, it's like there's a buildup of resonances that you don't get with samples, it just seems more real from the playing perspective. Probably unnoticeable in the mix!
For just playing piano by itself, I would go with Pianoteq or the LinuxSampler Grand. Of the models Pianoteq has in the demo, I like the Bechstein the best because it has a bit of percussive edge to it. I'd buy that one if they'd sell it to me by itself for half the price of their lowest price "two instrument" bundle.

Quote:
Nice drum solo at the end!
Hehe thanks, that was another test when I added a second kick drum pad to my V-Drums controller, and I wanted to play/record some live jamming to see how the latency felt, which was very tight thanks to some Linux experts around these parts helping me get my DAW tweaked.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:59 PM   #13
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This is the completed song that I rendered some short piano tests with yesterday.

It's all done in Linux with six instances of Kontakt hosting nine instruments, plus Surge, Arturia MiniMoog, Native Instrument B4 with live/recorded drawbar tweaking uasing the faders on my Akai MPD26 for a total of 34 tracks and 86 FX. Uses about 12.5% of my CPU.

The real instruments I'm playing are acoustic drums, Gibson 6-string, Dean Boca 12-String, Delta King 6-String, Talman 4-String bass plus vocals.

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14124732

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Old 10-14-2020, 12:43 AM   #14
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Feel like I'm getting in the middle of discussion, but to contribute to the topic (title) I found out that the windows command "mklink" is not working on the normal wine (ubuntu 20.04, wine-5.0.2) but in "wine-5.19 (Staging)" it's working
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