Old 08-18-2019, 03:48 PM   #1
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default why i switched back to LMMS

less complicated. comes with already built in sounds that you can customize. only downside i see is that you cant attach it to an interface. but maybe they'll work on it.

comments thoughts ?

Last edited by reaperguy27; 08-18-2019 at 11:27 PM.
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 04:34 PM   #2
Giovanni_B
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 50
Default

Nothing wrong with that.

LMMS is Ok for bedroom EDM creation.
Giovanni_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 04:35 PM   #3
adXok
Human being with feelings
 
adXok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,190
Default

What is LMMS? (I know Google knows, but...)
Ah, it is Ardour, but with some VST support + FLStudio facelift?!
Can't record Audio, is this a joke!?
__________________
♦ YouTube → .: Pashkuli Keyboard :.
♦ Gmail → pashkuli.keyboard@gmail.com

Last edited by adXok; 08-18-2019 at 04:43 PM.
adXok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 04:42 PM   #4
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
What is LMMS? (I know Google knows, but...)
Ah, it is Ardour, but with some VST support + FLStudio facelift?!
it stands for linux multimedia studio.

i don't know i just like it
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 04:44 PM   #5
Giovanni_B
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 50
Default

It's a very basic FL Studio clone.
Giovanni_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 05:00 PM   #6
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni_B View Post
It's a very basic FL Studio clone.
but sometimes basic is all you need
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 05:36 PM   #7
_Stevie_
Human being with feelings
 
_Stevie_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaperguy27 View Post
less complicated. comes with already built in sounds that you can customize. only downside i see is that you cant attach it to an interface. but maybe they'll work on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w7OgIMMRc4

comments thoughts ?
Thanks for that useful information. Btw, I had fish today.
__________________
My Reascripts forum thread | My Reascripts on GitHub | Stephan Römer - film composer
If you wish to donate for my scripts: please consider an organization like: animal shelter, doctors without borders, UNICEF, etc...

Last edited by _Stevie_; 08-18-2019 at 06:37 PM.
_Stevie_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 05:44 PM   #8
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaperguy27 View Post
less complicated. comes with already built in sounds that you can customize. only downside i see is that you cant attach it to an interface. but maybe they'll work on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w7OgIMMRc4

comments thoughts ?
You do you, LMMS guy. Enjoy!

That is kinda cool that there's a free FL-ish proggy out there. One could make cool little loops and whatnot to use in Reaper. But probably the time would be better used for me developing my Reaper skills.

What does the GnR vid have to do with anything?
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 06:36 PM   #9
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 13,384
Default

What does that mean "you cant attach it to an interface"?
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 10:09 PM   #10
zeekat
Human being with feelings
 
zeekat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Polandia
Posts: 2,357
Default

Whatever you say, lmmsguy27
__________________
AM bient and rund funk
my soundclouds+youtubings
zeekat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 11:26 PM   #11
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
What does that mean "you cant attach it to an interface"?
as far as i know you can't hoop up an audio interface to record vocials in LMMS and the metronome doesn't count you in.


I just find diffrerent things i like about both of them, but honstly i am starting to gravitate back towards reaper becasue i am finding things that are not in LMMS that i really like
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 11:32 PM   #12
zeekat
Human being with feelings
 
zeekat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Polandia
Posts: 2,357
Default

Reaper is not complicated anyway, I'm a moron and use it just fine.
__________________
AM bient and rund funk
my soundclouds+youtubings
zeekat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 11:36 PM   #13
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Btw, I had fish today.
Myself as well! Salmon and shrimp. Fish is delish!
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 11:43 PM   #14
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

you people are idiots just saying
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 12:51 AM   #15
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Thanks for that useful information. Btw, I had fish today.
your welcome.
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 01:05 AM   #16
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 404
Default

fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 01:08 AM   #17
slipstick
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK, near Europe
Posts: 876
Default

I came to Reaper quite a while ago from LMMS. That was the first "DAW" I ever used when I got interested in electronic music and I learned quite a lot with it.

But I got frustrated with all the useful VSTs that it couldn't run. And it's pretty poor at even using audio after you've recorded it in some other program (typically Audacity). It's certainly fairly simple to use but that's mainly because what you can do with it is very limited.

It's not a bad starting point and if it provides everything you need then by all means go for it. I still use it occasionally, mainly because I like the implementation of ZynSubAddFx, a versatile but very far from simple to use synth.

Steve
slipstick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 01:10 AM   #18
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Softsynth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,458
Default

Wow, LMMs must have improved enormously in the last 4-5 years
It used to be awful in comparison to Reaper. LMMS had poor (by the best freeware standards) instruments, and lousy VST compatibility. At that point it was merely a poor man's weak copy of Fruity Loops.
Perhaps you might prefer Fruity Loops to Reaper too?

I liked what they were trying to do with the totally free DAW concept though.
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 01:24 AM   #19
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Wow, LMMs must have improved enormously in the last 4-5 years
It used to be awful in comparison to Reaper. LMMS had poor (by the best freeware standards) instruments, and lousy VST compatibility. At that point it was merely a poor man's weak copy of Fruity Loops.
Perhaps you might prefer Fruity Loops to Reaper too?

I liked what they were trying to do with the totally free DAW concept though.
i like that you can EQ the samples even before they go into the mix.

i've had no problems with vst compatability. you just have to point it to the right folder at lest thats my experience.
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 02:28 AM   #20
SoulOne82
Human being with feelings
 
SoulOne82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Illville - Germany
Posts: 937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaperguy27 View Post
less complicated. comes with already built in sounds that you can customize. only downside i see is that you cant attach it to an interface. but maybe they'll work on it.

comments thoughts ?
SoulOne82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 09:12 AM   #21
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulOne82 View Post


i'm not your bro !
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 11:05 AM   #22
davetbass
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 117
Default

LMMS is fantastic, my first real DAW (if Rebirth doesn't count), but I switched to Reaper because LMMS had limitations accessing and recording automation for certain VSTis parameters. Also recording audio. However I might go back and remix some of my old LMMS tunes now that I know a little more about mixing/mastering. I'm sure I'll get a little emotional when I see those little blue rectangles, lol
davetbass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 11:11 AM   #23
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davetbass View Post
LMMS is fantastic, my first real DAW (if Rebirth doesn't count), but I switched to Reaper because LMMS had limitations accessing and recording automation for certain VSTis parameters. Also recording audio. However I might go back and remix some of my old LMMS tunes now that I know a little more about mixing/mastering. I'm sure I'll get a little emotional when I see those little blue rectangles, lol
you totally should

you can also check out this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQCb6zJ7wU

and this if your interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy8rLIsK6cg

Last edited by reaperguy27; 08-19-2019 at 11:35 AM.
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 12:26 PM   #24
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni_B View Post
Nothing wrong with that.

LMMS is Ok for bedroom EDM creation.
Also for kitchen- and lumber-room creation!
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 01:09 PM   #25
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 18,891
Default

O.P. - did you ever actually watch any of the reaper tutorial videos so you got a better understanding of all the questions you have raised since you started posting on here?
Reading through all your previous posts, it gives me the impression that your eyeballs rolled back in your head when you looked at the Reaper User Guide (kinda like mine did) and you didnt bother looking at any of the excellent videos.
Worth a try....
__________________
Brexit Schmexit. Lets have a violent revolution instead. Bagsy the first go with a nuke! (Here, Moggy Moggy...)
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 02:24 PM   #26
reaperguy27
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
O.P. - did you ever actually watch any of the reaper tutorial videos so you got a better understanding of all the questions you have raised since you started posting on here?
Reading through all your previous posts, it gives me the impression that your eyeballs rolled back in your head when you looked at the Reaper User Guide (kinda like mine did) and you didnt bother looking at any of the excellent videos.
Worth a try....
i read the users guide. it's very long so i kind of lost interest

but yes there are some good videos and threads of people explaining things.

i just think when you're choosing a daw it depends what you need it to do.

it's there to help you create music. and most of us are musicians not programmers that are using these things. so they should be user friendly

but i'm not saying reaper sucks. it's probably my inexperience with it. after all i only picked it up a week ago so how much could i possably know

Last edited by reaperguy27; 08-19-2019 at 02:34 PM.
reaperguy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 02:41 PM   #27
Sambo Rouge
Human being with feelings
 
Sambo Rouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posts: 1,894
Default

Going back into the mists of time, my first song that I ever mixed was on LMMS

I was broke and it was a great learning tool. This was followed by Cubase and then I sensibly moved on to Reaper, having carefully considered ProTools.

LMMS has come a long way with few resources. A dedicated bunch of people doing their best.

Sometimes it ain't pretty, but it is intuitive and gets many a young hopeful up and running.

Happy days.
__________________
Its never too late to be happy. :)
Sambo Rouge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 07:46 PM   #28
jp65535
Human being with feelings
 
jp65535's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin View Post
Myself as well! Salmon and shrimp. Fish is delish!
"(I don't like fish, hate fish, I don't like fish)"
-R. Waters-

Smart man, that Roger... :-)
jp65535 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 09:15 PM   #29
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 13,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaperguy27 View Post
as far as i know you can't hoop up an audio interface to record vocials in LMMS and the metronome doesn't count you in.


I just find diffrerent things i like about both of them, but honstly i am starting to gravitate back towards reaper becasue i am finding things that are not in LMMS that i really like
Then how in the hell do you use the thing? Just for mixing?
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 09:33 PM   #30
Lokasenna
Human being with feelings
 
Lokasenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,143
Default

Not sure what the OP is smoking: https://lmms.io/wiki/index.php?title...Audio_Settings

You can't actually record any audio though; the creators don't seem to have any interest in that since it's not meant to be a DAW.
Lokasenna is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 09:34 PM   #31
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 7,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Then how in the hell do you use the thing? Just for mixing?
For making MIDI and virtual instruments based music.
__________________
For info on SWS Reaper extension plugin (including Xenakios' previous extension/actions) :
http://www.sws-extension.org/
https://github.com/Jeff0S/sws
--
Xenakios blog (about HourGlass, Paul(X)Stretch and λ) :
http://xenakios.wordpress.com/
Xenakios is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 09:35 PM   #32
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 7,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
The poster didn't initially make clear that he meant LMMS doesn't allow recording audio.
__________________
For info on SWS Reaper extension plugin (including Xenakios' previous extension/actions) :
http://www.sws-extension.org/
https://github.com/Jeff0S/sws
--
Xenakios blog (about HourGlass, Paul(X)Stretch and λ) :
http://xenakios.wordpress.com/
Xenakios is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 12:51 AM   #33
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 18,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaperguy27 View Post

but i'm not saying reaper sucks. it's probably my inexperience with it. after all i only picked it up a week ago so how much could i possably know
Now THAT is funny. So you are running a thread in the Reaper forums about how LMMS is wonderful and you are dumping Reaper because of the great experience you are having with LMMS?
Well good for you, but ONE WEEK of experience with Reaper brought you to that decision so firmly you decided to start a thread implying that LMMS is much better than Reaper? In the Reaper forums?

Not entirely sure how to react to this, other than saying that you at least provided the rest of us with some amusement, especially now you have laid out your total experience with Reaper. How long have you been using LMMS & what are you going to use once you dfecide that is no good, too?

Have to say I am now enjoying the surreal nature of this thread a lot.
Where are we going next?
P.S. I may download LMMS jsut for the hell of it as and when I dedicate one of my old PCs to Linux again.
__________________
Brexit Schmexit. Lets have a violent revolution instead. Bagsy the first go with a nuke! (Here, Moggy Moggy...)

Last edited by ivansc; 08-27-2019 at 12:14 AM.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 12:54 AM   #34
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp65535 View Post
"(I don't like fish, hate fish, I don't like fish)"
-R. Waters-

Smart man, that Roger... :-)
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 01:25 AM   #35
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Softsynth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,458
Default

The OP should watch more of Kenny's video, as already suggested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
...
P.S. I may download LMMS jsut for the hell of it as and when I dedicate one of my old PCs to Linux again.
To be fair I never tried it on Linux, just the Windows version and it was several years back.

Reaperguy27,
Now there are several other free DAWs I see no reason to bother with LMMS's restrictions, based on my experience with it:
https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk
https://www.tracktion.com/products/t7-daw
https://www.presonus.com/products/St...get-studio-one

These are in some cases cut down or older versions of newer commercial products but more advanced than LMMS - unless LMMS has massively improved (though I remember even one of LMMS's main proponents ditching it for Fruity Loops at the time).
Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt perhaps LMMS improved significantly in the last 5yrs?
Reaper costs so little it is definitely worth the price over these free options anyway.
If you want a low cost in the box DAW with good built in synths Mulab would be worth considering too:
https://www.mutools.com/mulab-product.html
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 02:22 AM   #36
synkrotron
Human being with feelings
 
synkrotron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Warrington, UK
Posts: 316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin View Post
Revenge of the Fish!
__________________
Bandcamp // YouTube // SoundCloud
synkrotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 04:22 AM   #37
cutnpaste
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 391
Default

Best place for fish is in the ocean, not on a dinner plate.

Last edited by cutnpaste; 08-20-2019 at 04:44 AM.
cutnpaste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 06:02 AM   #38
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Softsynth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutnpaste View Post
Best place for fish is in the ocean, not on a dinner plate.
Either way these days they come wrapped in plastic!
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2019, 02:44 PM   #39
KingPancake
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 6
Default Clarification!

(Finally, I can post!) Anyway, I wanted to enlighten people a few things about LMMMS as I am an avid supporter of FLOSS software and well, of course a Linux user but I feel like clarification should be done for the sake of getting things right I suppose! (I have REAPER too for clarification)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
What is LMMS? (I know Google knows, but...)
Ah, it is Ardour, but with some VST support + FLStudio facelift?!
Can't record Audio, is this a joke!?
Nope! LMMS was developed earlier than Ardour (a year before actually), I believe their interface has been very consistent since their initial releases and the developers tried to make it stay like that. It can't record audio because is not meant for those actions, is meant for VST and midi compositions, that being said, the team did address this and they'll put a recording feature for the next version. So no, is no joke ;D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Wow, LMMs must have improved enormously in the last 4-5 years
It used to be awful in comparison to Reaper. LMMS had poor (by the best freeware standards) instruments, and lousy VST compatibility. At that point it was merely a poor man's weak copy of Fruity Loops.
Perhaps you might prefer Fruity Loops to Reaper too?

I liked what they were trying to do with the totally free DAW concept though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
The OP should watch more of Kenny's video, as already suggested.

To be fair I never tried it on Linux, just the Windows version and it was several years back.

Reaperguy27,
Now there are several other free DAWs I see no reason to bother with LMMS's restrictions, based on my experience with it:
https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk
https://www.tracktion.com/products/t7-daw
https://www.presonus.com/products/St...get-studio-one

These are in some cases cut down or older versions of newer commercial products but more advanced than LMMS - unless LMMS has massively improved (though I remember even one of LMMS's main proponents ditching it for Fruity Loops at the time).
Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt perhaps LMMS improved significantly in the last 5yrs?
Reaper costs so little it is definitely worth the price over these free options anyway.
If you want a low cost in the box DAW with good built in synths Mulab would be worth considering too:
https://www.mutools.com/mulab-product.html
It has improved dramatically actually! Most of the problems people have complained about LMMS were earlier versions of it, like 1.1.3 or the like, the new update (1.2.0) puts it very competitive with all other DAWs out in the market while having a solid edge in some cases or others (Then again, I don't believe in market in this particular case because LMMS is a project, not a product but oh well) (So yeah, is not "awful" like years ago compared to REAPER, it has grown so much it now has some edges over it, like LADSPA support, this is of course only for Linux users though)

The top answer in this particular case answers it well: https://www.quora.com/Which-is-better-LMMS-or-FL-STUDIO
And I recommend this video if you want to see the developer answers in the comments and someone knowledgeable on DAWs (on Linux) here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5j8c2qlih0M

Of course I can't speak from a Windows user but if the VST compatibility is about as good as the other DAWs, and recording will be implemented soon enough, then is just another option people can take to make music. Interface and workflow of course are different from each DAW


Addressing the OP, choose the DAW that you'll feel the most comfortable with or has a ton of tutorials available to get you started. Workflow and Interface gets you very different results depending on who you ask, someone may prefer to compose on FL Studio, Ableton, Bitwig, etc. or use REAPER (like most people here naturally) here while watching Kenny's videos, reading the manual, etc.

Most DAWs have grown to the point where your tastes and needs define what you want to do with them, in the end, they are tools to get you up and running with music composition. You can also use two or three at the same time, not exactly unheard of, but in the end is up to you how you want to address this. If you feel REAPER is the right choice, if you feel LMMS go ahead, if you feel both are the right choice, sure!

At the end of the day, if you are planning on providing your own plugins to the DAW, then, the point above still stands and is actually easier to choose as you'll pick the DAW you feel is going to make it worth it. In the end is all about composing music so learning some music theory and practising can get you far, after all, no DAW in the world is going to compose music for you without your intervention!
KingPancake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2019, 03:59 PM   #40
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPancake View Post
It has improved dramatically actually! Most of the problems people have complained about LMMS were earlier versions of it, like 1.1.3 or the like, the new update (1.2.0) puts it very competitive with all other DAWs ...
Thank you KingPancake for your infos about LMMS.
I think most astonishing is:

Quote:
It is 100% open-source, meaning that literally anybody in the world can improve the program.
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.