Behringer x32 and reaper

[mytt88]

Hello, I am trying to help a friend record drums using his x32 and my mac with reaper.

I have set the x32 to output the card but I have no control over the gain/volume that shows up in reaper. Basically the meters stay a constant volume regardless if I slide the fader or adjust the gain control on the channel using the trim pot. Also the waveforms recorded in reaper appear really small. Any ideas what I need to change? I think the card output is set to before the gain/effect/fader but that still wouldn't explain why there is no adjustments showing on the x32 itself either.

Thanks

[serr]

The default is to output direct from the preamps prefader. (I thought this was the only option? I believe you would have to route post fader outputs to mix buses and route those to outputs to get anything post fader.) It sounds like you do want the default prefader per usual?

Are you saying the Midas head amp gain controls are not responding? That's what it sounds like you are describing. Do you see the gain change in the X32 mixer when you adjust the preamp trim? If yes, maybe you don't have the banks of inputs selected for card outputs like you thought? Not sure where this thought is going... There's no pre-gain-pre-fader option that would make that make sense. Obviously grabbing post would have ALL channel fader moves and everything else baked in... and would have taken routing effort...

Anyway, moving forward:
If the gain control also appears to not be working for the X32 mixer, then we're looking at something crashing on the X32.

If it's working for the X32 but your outputs are not following... Yeah, I don't know what feature or operator error could lead to that. I'm not sure how the X-USB audio interface card itself could be the cause either - it's only delivering what the board gives it. Sounds like a service call to Midas.

That would be my first look at troubleshooting this.

[mschnell]

The usually suggested digital recording (with 24 Bit) is making the visible maximum peaks to be about -18 dB to prevent any digital overload. This is "pretty small", but allows for decent resolution (quality) and enough headroom.

You always can use normalize on the tracks, increase the item volume or increase its waveform view in Reaper, if you like.
-Michael

[mytt88]

Originally Posted by serr

The default is to output direct from the preamps prefader. (I thought this was the only option? I believe you would have to route post fader outputs to mix buses and route those to outputs to get anything post fader.) It sounds like you do want the default prefader per usual?

I would output it post fader but not at the expense of using a bus so I'd rule that out.

Originally Posted by serr

Do you see the gain change in the X32 mixer when you adjust the preamp trim?

No if I select channel and then under config/preamp turn the gain knob nothing changes on the input level either in the DAW or on the channel.



Thanks for the help though

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mytt88

turn the gain knob nothing changes on the input level either in the DAW or on the channel.

I don't own an X32 but this seems like a bug. With 24 Bit A/Ds, the gain setting needs to be a hardware control pre-A/D and hence needs to be visible in the signal sent to Reaper from any point in the routing.

[serr]

I don't know of any 'feature' to disable the preamp gain controls. And if there were I would expect to see the gain control be greyed out, for example.

What does this look like? It lets you 'adjust' the knob. Remembers where you last left it and everything but it just has no effect on signal level? Oh, and also this is on every channel?

This is a service call for sure. Keep it simple with them. This doesn't have anything to do with the Reaper DAW connection etc etc. You can't adjust the preamp gain even for the mixer itself.

[mytt88]

Originally Posted by mschnell

I don't own an X32 but this seems like a bug. With 24 Bit A/Ds, the gain setting needs to be a hardware control pre-A/D and hence needs to be visible in the signal sent to Reaper from any point in the routing.

It is very strange and not functioning anything like I expected but I've never used a mixing desk before so wasn't sure what I was doing wrong. I'll have to download and play around with the x32 edit software too maybe I can increase the gain going into the daw that way

Otherwise I'll just get by with increasing the waveform view in reaper and see how that goes for now. Thanks

[mytt88]

Originally Posted by serr

What does this look like? It lets you 'adjust' the knob. Remembers where you last left it and everything but it just has no effect on signal level? Oh, and also this is on every channel?

Yes I can see the gain knob track my adjustments on the LED around the knob and mirrored on the display window but no increase or decrease on the meters or the waveform in DAW. Yes same on the 5 channels I tried. Thanks.

[serr]

Originally Posted by mytt88

Yes I can see the gain knob track my adjustments on the LED around the knob and mirrored on the display window but no increase or decrease on the meters or the waveform in DAW. Yes same on the 5 channels I tried. Thanks.

In the spirit of tech support and focusing on one variable at a time...

You see no increase or decrease in the meters on the X32 itself, correct?
(And then the DAW connected to these inputs also confirms this.)

Can we confirm again that you have in fact selected the analog inputs for the input channels? (2 banks of 8 on the 16 channel model or 4 banks of 8 on a 32 channel model - or whatever your intentional choice was)

Setup recap:
You select from the available inputs/outputs in banks of 8 for both the mixing board and the USB audio interface card. The default is the analog inputs for the mixing board. But you could select a bank of ethernet connected 'digital snake' instead, for example. Setting what comes in or out of the audio interface card is the same. Assign banks of inputs to it to record from. Or banks of mix bus outputs to record mix channel outputs.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mytt88

It is very strange and not functioning anything like I expected but I've never used a mixing desk before so wasn't sure what I was doing wrong.

I suppose you by some chance are modifying the gain of a different channel than you are auditioning.

[serr]

Originally Posted by mschnell

I suppose you by some chance are modifying the gain of a different channel than you are auditioning.

That would be a quick simple way to bamboozle oneself!
You could space out and accidentally have a different bank of 8 inputs selected for one of the card slots that you intended.

But if this 1st part is true:
"I have no control over the gain/volume that shows up in reaper... no adjustments showing on the x32 itself either"
and there's no brain fart of having a wrong bank assignment, then something has gone wrong with the preamp control on the X32 itself. That would be the X32 and outside of any attempted DAW connection. Another way to state it is Reaper confirmed the issue with the board.

Did you try a firmware update on the board recently? Just fishing for something that could have led to corruption/malfunction.

[mytt88]

Originally Posted by serr

Did you try a firmware update on the board recently? Just fishing for something that could have led to corruption/malfunction.

Yes I did. I also cant enable phantom power for condenser mics unless I change the routing but when I have control there is nothing getting to reaper.

[serr]

Originally Posted by mytt88

Yes I did. I also cant enable phantom power for condenser mics unless I change the routing but when I have control there is nothing getting to reaper.

I'd redo that firmware flash. Download a fresh copy just to be sure as well.

If I'm reading this correctly with no miscommunication it sounds like the config screen is broken. No gain, no phantom. The X32 is more or less DOA in such a state.

What do you mean by "unless I change the routing"?

Might want to get with Midas on their forum too.

[mytt88]

Originally Posted by serr

I'd redo that firmware flash. Download a fresh copy just to be sure as well.

I did a factory reset and then installed a fresh download of the firmware so now it is behaving as expected in terms of preamp gain and phantom power.

Originally Posted by serr

What do you mean by "unless I change the routing"?

Under routing > input "local 1-8" etc and "card 1-8" etc and then inputs record /play but it doesn't matter now since its behaving as expected.

Would have been easier if the x32 software would work with the usb b-a port but its only the ethernet that can control it by the looks even though the manual says otherwise.

Anyway... my next question is how do I get the master bus to send to the monitor xlr outs on the back? Then I need to figure out how to get that to send to headphones so I can turn the monitor control down for vocals in the room and I will be connecting the stagebox into one of the connected devices a or b and need to get a headphone mix to the drummer miced up through it if you have any ideas?

Thanks for your help so far

[serr]

Originally Posted by mytt88

I did a factory reset and then installed a fresh download of the firmware so now it is behaving as expected in terms of preamp gain and phantom power.

Success! That's great news.

Firmware updates involve writing to flash memory on some chip on the things logic board. That leads to the possibility of bricking the device if it goes wrong enough. So that's a little scary! So that's great it worked out and the X32 just came back!

Originally Posted by mytt88

Would have been easier if the x32 software would work with the usb b-a port but its only the ethernet that can control it by the looks even though the manual says otherwise.

I think you can connect to it as a MIDI device over that internal USB port. (Haven't tried it.) I just use the ethernet port to either control it via a tablet or use it as a MIDI control surface for Reaper.

Originally Posted by mytt88

Anyway... my next question is how do I get the master bus to send to the monitor xlr outs on the back? Then I need to figure out how to get that to send to headphones so I can turn the monitor control down for vocals in the room and I will be connecting the stagebox into one of the connected devices a or b and need to get a headphone mix to the drummer miced up through it if you have any ideas?

Thanks for your help so far

The X32 stereo master defaults to being routed to XLR outputs 7/8 or 15/16 depending on the model (8 vs 16 xlr output version).
You can change it or assign whatever in the routing tab.

If you mean assigning an input from a host DAW to the X-USB card...
Assign a bank of 8 card input channels to input or aux channels.
Send audio from the DAW to those channels.

I find it convenient to return DAW audio to the aux channels. That leaves the input channels to use as audio interface inputs for recording. Any of those inputs go to anyone's monitor mix natively on the X32. An aux pair is the stereo DAW return. If I'm in front of an X32 with built in control surface and want to use it for a control surface for Reaper, that setup doesn't get in the way of itself. I just ignore the main stereo mix bus on the X32 in that control surface scenario. I get the 16 or 32 input channels prefader into the DAW and the X32 channel faders become Reaper control surface instead. But all the other mixbus routing for monitor mixes is routed normally.

[mytt88]

input = local 1-8 local 9-16 local 17-24 card 25-32. card = local 1-8 local 9-16 local 17-24 local 25 32.

only way i can get anything to work. channel 31 + 32 are my master faders. got my phantom and gain working. This thing aint easy

[mytt88]

Originally Posted by serr

The X32 stereo master defaults to being routed to XLR outputs 7/8 or 15/16 depending on the model (8 vs 16 xlr output version).
You can change it or assign whatever in the routing tab.

If you mean assigning an input from a host DAW to the X-USB card...
Assign a bank of 8 card input channels to input or aux channels.
Send audio from the DAW to those channels.

I find it convenient to return DAW audio to the aux channels. That leaves the input channels to use as audio interface inputs for recording. Any of those inputs go to anyone's monitor mix natively on the X32. An aux pair is the stereo DAW return. If I'm in front of an X32 with built in control surface and want to use it for a control surface for Reaper, that setup doesn't get in the way of itself. I just ignore the main stereo mix bus on the X32 in that control surface scenario. I get the 16 or 32 input channels prefader into the DAW and the X32 channel faders become Reaper control surface instead. But all the other mixbus routing for monitor mixes is routed normally.

Would you be able to explain how that looks on the routing pages? I still can't wrap my head around this thanks

[EcBaPr]

the thing which can confuse people initially on X32 routing is that inputs aren't always directly connected to channels like with analog consoles.. so if the routing had been changed and someone unfamiliar tried to use it, it could look faulty.. the default i think is just 1:1 which might be why it started making sense after you did a reset..

i cant recall how to do this on the hardware, but if you have X Edit software and select the monitor button at top right i think thats where you can assign your LR buss to the monitor XLR outs..

if you want a headphone mix which is the same as your L/R (and you have kept the factory reset settings) then i think this should appear on 15/16 of a stagebox connected to either AES port.. if you want a seperate headphone mix select one of the MixBus buttons in X Edit and whatever mix you setup should then appear at the corresponding stagebox output. ie: MixBus 1 = output 1.. i havent used X32 for a while and not near one at the moment to test but pretty sure thats how the defaults are setup...

[serr]

Originally Posted by mytt88

Would you be able to explain how that looks on the routing pages? I still can't wrap my head around this thanks

I wrote some of that in a confusing slightly wrong way, sorry!

I conflated X32 -> card with card -> X32 with this statement: "Assign a bank of 8 card input channels to input or aux channels."

Assigning X32 signals to the card is in banks of 8.
Assigning card channels to X32 channels is the same as assigning any other available inputs to X32 channels.

X32 -> DAW:
Routing tab -> Card -> assign banks of 8 channels from X32.

DAW -> X32:
Assign card inputs to X32 channels as you please. (Config page where the gain, link, etc controls are.)


The 'unexpected' bit about the X32 is it does not look like a straight audio interface to a DAW host. The X-USB card is the audio interface part. The X32 mix system uses that card and controls it and you have to route around it with the X32.

The matrix routing was the most cryptic to learn. ie. I actually had to RTFM and everything! I suggest plugging in a mic and a speaker or phones and rehearse/learn the routing. I missed the FX return to mixbus routing page at first and had that rare request for some fx to monitor at a live show. Thankfully there was a random person in the room that knew the X32 and showed me. Don't be like me! Go through the permutations of the routing and learn the thing.