Old 08-15-2018, 11:50 PM   #1
Zealotron
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Aylesbury, UK
Posts: 33
Default Reaper and the cloud

I've always been told its not the right thing to do but I'm just wondering if anybody has had any success running any kind of cloud backup (Dropbox, Google etc) in the background, while working in Reaper. Are there any performance issues. My time on Reaper is limited and I find I'm having to leave the machine on to run overnight overnight backups. I'd like to be able to backup the projects I'm working on in real time and maybe backup my system drive once every couple of weeks. Anybody got any good strategies?

My apologies if this topic is not in the appropriate section.
Zealotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 03:07 AM   #2
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zealotron View Post
I've always been told its not the right thing to do but I'm just wondering if anybody has had any success running any kind of cloud backup (Dropbox, Google etc) in the background, while working in Reaper. Are there any performance issues. My time on Reaper is limited and I find I'm having to leave the machine on to run overnight overnight backups. I'd like to be able to backup the projects I'm working on in real time and maybe backup my system drive once every couple of weeks. Anybody got any good strategies?

My apologies if this topic is not in the appropriate section.
Just depends if your computer can handle it in addition to whatever plugins you use etc.

I've almost always got stuff uploading and/or downloading in the background while using Reaper and never have any problems.

It would only be a problem if your computer could no longer process the upload as well as the Reaper session in real time - there would then be dropouts.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 04:39 AM   #3
JSMastering
Human being with feelings
 
JSMastering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 212
Default

I don't have a problem doing it.

The way I have it set up...I work out of my Dropbox folder (which is pretty much always uploading as things are changing), Carbon Copy Cloaner is running some scheduled tasks in the background to copy certain folders onto another SSD or to a huge NAS, and a full system clone onto another SSD every day.

All of them only write changes, so it's not a huge amount of IO, and I have enough RAM that if Reaper wanted to, it could load entire projects into RAM and work off that anyway.

Basically...I don't see a reason not to try it. And if the computer stalls and you don't want to increase the buffer size, maybe back it off.
JSMastering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 04:51 AM   #4
Jack Winter
Human being with feelings
 
Jack Winter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luxembourg/Spain
Posts: 1,922
Default

I'm using Linux so normally have tons of stuff running without any apparent problems. The only possible issue I've found is that I've been using a program called syncthing to sync a folder containing reaper projects between my desktop and laptop. There I've occasionally encountered problems while trying to sync wave files while actively recording. IIRC it had something to do with the how wave files are written by reaper, that would confuse the sync program. Some times I'd get what it calls sync conflicts, and I'd have to copy some files manually. I solved that by simply disactivating syncthing while reaper is running.
__________________
Reaper for Linux Documentation (WIP). Software: Archlinux/KDE, Fabfilter FX, Komplete 8, Nebula, Schwa/Stillwell, T-racks Max/Amplitube/SVX, etc. Gear: i7-2600k/4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, Genelec 8040, etc. :)
Jack Winter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 08:00 AM   #5
JSMastering
Human being with feelings
 
JSMastering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
I'm using Linux so normally have tons of stuff running without any apparent problems. The only possible issue I've found is that I've been using a program called syncthing to sync a folder containing reaper projects between my desktop and laptop. There I've occasionally encountered problems while trying to sync wave files while actively recording. IIRC it had something to do with the how wave files are written by reaper, that would confuse the sync program. Some times I'd get what it calls sync conflicts, and I'd have to copy some files manually. I solved that by simply disactivating syncthing while reaper is running.
That is a legitimate concern. Recording is not my focus, so it hasn't come up for me.

The biggest issue I see coming up is if a sync operation happens while a file is being written...it's slightly ambiguous how the sync/backup system should handle that, depending on some specifics.

I haven't had that problem with Dropbox and CCC. I'm pretty sure rsnapshot (on osx or linux) should work correctly. Time Vault does not, unless they fixed it.

PureMix put out a video on Fab Dupont working out of Dropbox that's probably worth looking at.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUeZC-XuXU4

Also note, the cost he talks about is largely because of unlimited storage and the fact that he has multiple people connected. He seems to have Dropbox for Teams Advanced, which is $20 per user per month now.

I have a 1TB Dropbox Plus plan that costs $100/year and easily copes with my computers. I pretty much use my Dropbox as my home folder on all of my computers, so everything is in multiple places on my computers and gets uploaded to Dropbox's computers as a low-priority task whenever my computers and network aren't doing anything important. The rest of my backups are because I'm paranoid. But dropbox plus CCC for a bootable copy of the system drive is what I rely on.
JSMastering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 10:49 AM   #6
poetnprophet
Human being with feelings
 
poetnprophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,651
Default

I use Google Drive and sync my project folder.

I typically don't use it during recording or mixing...habit since previous computer issues. But there are times I have run it and forgot it was running while I continued to work. In Reaper, there are no issues for me...but I don't think it's good practice in general to have cloud programs running while mixing or especially recording. But like I said, I have done it inadvertently with no issues at all.

So far no issues recovering anything, but it's more for backup for me than an actual workflow so I haven't fully tested it yet.
__________________
https://www.kdubbproductions.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpC...2dGA3qUWBKrXQQ
i7 8700k,4.9Ghz,Win10,Reaper 6,Motu 828es, Cranborne ADAT500
poetnprophet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 11:24 AM   #7
cyrano
Human being with feelings
 
cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
Default

I'm extremely old fashioned when it comes to backups. For me, a backup is three things:

- A running backup. I use Time Machine on a local disk. No NAS, No cloud. TM over a network just isn't reliable.
- A dedicated double backup. One on site, one off site. I use rsync on a local network disk.
- An archival copy (data only) on DVD.

And you need to test backup restoration...

Once the habit has settled in, it's not much extra work.

I've seen the problem Jack describes with wav files a number of times. But I've also seen that problem with Indesign files, Photoshop files and CAD files. Most users will never encounter it, especially with Dropbox, which is the most reliable cloud service by far.

The moment you don't want to live through, is the moment you discover your backup is corrupt. I've had a case like that just last week. 10 TB of work gone because the victim relied on one backup. Almost ten years of work gone...

But you don't need to take this advice. I do data recovery. It's not cheap tho...

For the really old farts: remember DOS 3 backup? Yep, that problem is still around today. LOL.
__________________
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
cyrano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 04:12 PM   #8
JSMastering
Human being with feelings
 
JSMastering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
I'm extremely old fashioned when it comes to backups. For me, a backup is three things:

- A running backup. I use Time Machine on a local disk. No NAS, No cloud. TM over a network just isn't reliable.
- A dedicated double backup. One on site, one off site. I use rsync on a local network disk.
- An archival copy (data only) on DVD.

And you need to test backup restoration...

Once the habit has settled in, it's not much extra work.

I've seen the problem Jack describes with wav files a number of times. But I've also seen that problem with Indesign files, Photoshop files and CAD files. Most users will never encounter it, especially with Dropbox, which is the most reliable cloud service by far.

The moment you don't want to live through, is the moment you discover your backup is corrupt. I've had a case like that just last week. 10 TB of work gone because the victim relied on one backup. Almost ten years of work gone...

But you don't need to take this advice. I do data recovery. It's not cheap tho...

For the really old farts: remember DOS 3 backup? Yep, that problem is still around today. LOL.
Yeah..I've had time machine destroy backups before. And tapes that just didn't read right (which took forever to find out). And optical disks that wouldn't read.

I like for as much to be automatic as possible and to have things in a few places, largely because any of them could easily fail. But all of them failing is very unlikely.
JSMastering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2018, 06:48 PM   #9
tack
Human being with feelings
 
tack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,618
Default

As a nerd and generally distrustful of cloud, here's what I do:
  • Host my own Nextcloud server on my LAN
  • Run the Nextcloud client on my Windows desktop and autosync my top-level Reaper project folder (but excluding *.RPP-bak files). Project saves are instantly synced, which takes little time because the sync target is local. And Nextcloud takes care of versioning so fat-fingering is automatically solved.
  • On my NAS, do a nightly sync of my Nextcloud directory (and other things outside of Nextcloud) to cloud storage on the net. I use Wasabi as an S3 provider (cheap and fast) and use the command line client of Duplicacy which is a fantastic client that provides encryption, deduplication, and support for a sophisticated retention policy of snapshots.

This approach has worked wonderfully for me.

I also do weekly backups of just about everything important on my NAS to rust, rotating between 3 drives, and storing one at a friend's.

I don't think this specific solution is workable for non-nerds though.

Last edited by tack; 08-16-2018 at 06:54 PM.
tack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 05:51 AM   #10
JSMastering
Human being with feelings
 
JSMastering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tack View Post
I don't think this specific solution is workable for non-nerds though.
Yeah. I'm a nerd too. But, I want access to the "cloud" from the internet. While nexcloud, owncloud, etc. are very good, there are a lot of things to screw up in setting up the server, authentication, or potentially VPN. That's really the only reason I haven't done something similar.
JSMastering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 06:14 AM   #11
tack
Human being with feelings
 
tack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,618
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSMastering View Post
While nexcloud, owncloud, etc. are very good, there are a lot of things to screw up in setting up the server, authentication, or potentially VPN.
Yeah, true enough. This sort of thing is sort of my day job so exposing the Nextcloud on my home network to the Internet doesn't phase me, but I can definitely see how that raises the nerd-bar significantly higher.

Edit: although there's still a solid use-case even for an internal-only Nextcloud, just to handle with automatic syncing and versioning of important files on systems attached to your home network.

Last edited by tack; 08-17-2018 at 07:44 AM.
tack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 06:47 AM   #12
Time Waster
Human being with feelings
 
Time Waster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bowral, Australia
Posts: 1,638
Default

I've had good success using OneDrive to synchronise my REAPER install and projects across several Windows machines. I use a portable install of REAPER, which is in the OneDrive folder on each machine, along with my projects, VSTs etc. Initially, a year or so ago, it was a bit flakey (duplicate files or failing to synchronise), but it seems to be improving over time.
__________________
Mal, aka The Wasters of Time
Mal's JSFX: ReaRack2 Modular Synth
Time Waster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2018, 01:32 PM   #13
JSMastering
Human being with feelings
 
JSMastering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tack View Post
Yeah, true enough. This sort of thing is sort of my day job so exposing the Nextcloud on my home network to the Internet doesn't phase me, but I can definitely see how that raises the nerd-bar significantly higher.

Edit: although there's still a solid use-case even for an internal-only Nextcloud, just to handle with automatic syncing and versioning of important files on systems attached to your home network.
Yeah...I was on that path, what seems like a lifetime ago. Things changed at some point. There's a part of me that regrets it, but...whatever. Can't always plan everything.
JSMastering is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.