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Old 01-10-2018, 12:25 PM   #41
karbomusic
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post

Saying things like: it is useless implementing, not worth the time, will never happen, i don't want, will always lead to fill request threads with non valuable information.
I didn't say that which we know. Just keep what others said away from what I said for now.

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IMO We should constructively support every request to make it the best possible. Then it's devs who should pick what they think it is the best for Reaper.
I'm a lifelong musician and developer (both small scale and fortune 50 so to speak) so I tend to see both sides of the story, it's in my DNA - being that this is a public discussion, and not a direct discussion with the devs, my and other ideas based on decades experience isn't unwarranted. If anything it is trying to get some of the 'big picture' in the hands of those who may only see a tiny slit view of what is involved and that may be for OR against - knowledge matters. I'm with you on the detractors but that wasn't what I was trying to do, I was actually supporting but mentioning possible caveats.

And no I don't agree everyone should blindly support every feature request - the entire reason the requests and/or polls exist as a public forum, is for the exact user discussions and understanding that also help the devs to judge overall user thoughts on the feature. Otherwise, just email them directly and don't post about it at all if what the users think don't matter. Tbh, it still sounds like your consensus is "reply if you support it" but don't dare reply with any of the realties if it isn't a +1 for the request and I think that is squarely unfair. However, if you mean constructive as in constructive criticism is allowed, vs. lashing out, then forget the unfair comment statement because I wholeheartedly agree.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Tbh, it still sounds like your consensus is "reply if you support it" but don't dare reply with any of the realties if it isn't a +1 for the request and I think that is squarely unfair.
A few years ago, when there was voting for each request, you could reply with "Yes, I'd use this feature" or "No, I wouldn't use this feature" (or words to that effect).

In one case, the proponent of some proposed feature was encouraging everybody to vote on it. Then he got mad when some people voted "no". He said that it was sabotaging his request. In my mind, it was useful information for the developers to have. If I'm not going to use something, then I'll say so and let the developers spend their time on something that I would use.

In this case, I'd vote no because I rarely use MIDI and never need to worry about synchronization between devices. That doesn't mean that this request is invalid nor that it shouldn't be considered. But for me, as with many other users, I'd rather see the developers spend their time on other initiatives.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:49 PM   #43
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In this case, I'd vote no because I rarely use MIDI and never need to worry about synchronization between devices. That doesn't mean that this request is invalid nor that it shouldn't be considered. But for me, as with many other users, I'd rather see the developers spend their time on other initiatives.
I'd probably vote yes but for one simple reason. I purchased SoundBrenner metronomes last summer for my entire band. They can sync very well with all members in real time using an android app. Meaning, I can understand the convenience of some platform where syncing unrelated musical apps et al ubiquitously would be of great value.

On a side note SoundBrenner has a DAW Tools app that allows everyone to by sync'd with the metronomes they are wearing and to the DAW but they don't have a windows based version of this tool. So when I tracked my album in august, I couldn't use these for tracking which I really wanted to do. Basically, it exposes a Bluetooth LE MIDI device to the DAW or similar if memory serves which means when I hit record everyone would "feel" reapers click on their wrist.

The main point to share though is that that experience showed me how the "sync" part is useful and the term MIDI is related but in some ways sort of irrelevant if we really think about it.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I didn't say that which we know. Just keep what others said away from what I said for now.

I'm a lifelong musician and developer so I tend to see both sides of the story, it's in my DNA - being that this is a public discussion, and not a direct discussion with the devs, my and other ideas based on decades experience isn't unwarranted. If anything it is trying to get some of the 'big picture' in the hands of those who may only see a tiny slit view of what is involved - knowledge matters. I'm with you on the detractors but that wasn't what I was trying to do, I was actually supporting but mentioning possible caveats.
So probably we agree estimating effort here by us is redundant. We can't estimate effort and implications for this feature, or ARA, or Range Selection.

We have a GUI and an API we can see and some users like you also know the historic evolution of the DAW. Everything else we don't know, altho someone with developing experience might have an idea based on their dev perspective.

But i have seen a lot "not possible" and it is very difficult with no fundament. So, except for some cases which we are 100% sure or completely obvious unlogical requests, this should not be our concern.

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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
And no I don't agree everyone should blindly support every feature request - the entire reason the requests and/or polls exist as a public forum, is for the exact user discussions and understanding that also help the devs to judge overall user thoughts on the feature.
Of course this is just my opinion: i think we should make every feature request the best possible if we think it is a good feature, even if personally don't need it, otherwise i think it is good to let it go.
By doing so we could see features as a whole instead of isolated requests, because everything is related as we, with developing experience, might see.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:29 PM   #45
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So probably we agree estimating effort here by us is redundant. We can't estimate effort and implications for this feature, or ARA, or Range Selection.
If it is posted publicly as a feature request, everyone gets equal time and input even if redundant speculation - otherwise, as I said, just email the devs and leave the public out of it. But we both know why its publicly posted, because there is a hope that a large number of users will go +1 and persuade the devs into acting on it - anyone posting caveats, sincere or otherwise sort of ruins that plan and those who want the request try to undo that "perceived" damage. I get it, it's human nature.

However, it's far better to allow all views, and ignore the obvious troll posts - otherwise if you fight them you are undoing your own goal by making the FR thread so damn noisy the devs aren't even going to attempt to make sense of the resulting mess - like we are doing right now. Had you not replied to me the way you did, it would be my only reply in this thread.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:11 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
If it is posted publicly as a feature request, everyone gets equal time and input even if redundant speculation - otherwise, as I said, just email the devs and leave the public out of it. But we both know why its publicly posted, because there is a hope that a large number of users will go +1 and persuade the devs into acting on it - anyone posting caveats, sincere or otherwise sort of ruins that plan and those who want the request try to undo that "perceived" damage. I get it, it's human nature.

However, it's far better to allow all views, and ignore the obvious troll posts - otherwise if you fight them you are undoing your own goal by making the FR thread so damn noisy the devs aren't even going to attempt to make sense of the resulting mess - like we are doing right now. Had you not replied to me the way you did, it would be my only reply in this thread.
of course this is just my thought! : ) everyone do whatever they want.
Reaper is DAW + Community for me, including negative posts, but the requests section could have a slightly bit more of good sense, non ego driven community.

anyway : )

i tell an example. Julian made this request:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=200142

no one made a +1 except me. In your perspective would it a good bet or not?
it is obvious for me the implications this slightly change could make.

All kind of panels , and toggles, and tool modes, even pattern sequencer : / :P can be maded by the community enriching the interface and workflow a lot. Why no one supports this? i might understand someone with no developing experience won't get the idea , all others? WHAT

Another:
I have spent sometime to mockup Track Modulation Panel!
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=201664

why no one discussing to make it better? isn't it useful and logical to have it?! when i say support i don't say supporting in order to make it immediately if ever implemented or in that form. I might understand some don't care, but all users? i would thank if anyone could make it better presented.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Haha, no need to get sarcastic, if that was your intent
only wanted to show a short way to get reaper as a part (not full menmber ) of linked stuff.

and yes , it was
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:15 AM   #48
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+1

would be a nice alternative to rewire
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:14 AM   #49
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only wanted to show a short way to get reaper as a part (not full menmber ) of linked stuff.
this could be interesting! i can't know if that is an option.. all or nothing maybe is the only choice
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:39 PM   #50
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An update on working around not having Link:
If you are using an iPad and want to sync with Reaper, the app Midi-link-Sync converts midi clock to link, and I have been using it successfully.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV11KQUaXYE

For those interested:
Ableton link also now has a Pre-release beta version for developers.
Version 3.0 adding Start Stop Sync
https://github.com/Ableton/link/rele...k-3.0.0-Beta-1

Last edited by ChristopherT; 01-14-2018 at 05:16 PM.
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