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Old 09-09-2018, 12:20 AM   #1
sjs94704
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Default How do I work with songs that have variable TEMPOS ?

Some of the pre-recorded songs I download to sing to say that for the tempo is VARIABLE. So, how do I deal with that within a single project?
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Old 09-09-2018, 06:42 AM   #2
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what's the goal?
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Old 09-09-2018, 05:46 PM   #3
sjs94704
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Default mccrabney, I'm not sure what more I can say ??

On the website, I get my music from it gives statistics as well as other information about each song, one of which is TEMPO, however, on some of the songs the website indicates that the TEMPO is variable.

What is my goal? I guess you could say that it is to uncover what the tempo is at each part of each song that indicates a variable tempo and do the best I can to match it to what it should be!
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:19 AM   #4
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cool, yeah i asked because there are several goals you could have had, and different workflows for each

the reaper blogs have a good tempo mapping video on youtube that might help your use case

there's also this sws thread
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=118061

generally, what i do probably isn't what you want to do, but i kind of do it all in reverse. instead of matching my project tempo to the song, i first use stretch markers to force a song into an arbitrary project tempo and then add tempo markers with gradual changes to force the tempo i want. this lets me ramp tempos up and down at different parts/transitions in a single song, adding more nuance to otherwise grid-based electronic music
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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:21 PM   #5
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What are you doing where the actual tempo matters? Are you adding midi instruments? Trying to sync FX? Just curious because I thought you were mostly singing over prerecorded tracks, and in most scenarios for that kind of thing it doesn't really much matter.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:37 PM   #6
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I (not hard enough) tried to follow several ways to do tempo mapping. I always found that it works but it's a pain to do it.

I was told that Melodyne does a great job to automatically create a tempo map.

So now I am waiting for the official fully ARA2 integrated Versions of Reaper and Melodyne that are supposed to easily exchange tempo maps.

-Michael
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:17 AM   #7
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Only really a concern if you're syncing MIDI to audio or providing metronome clicks for things like soundtracks to video.

If you're trying to match up different tracks - say someone came in late on a chorus - you doctor the individual track with slicing and time stretching. Fiddly yes, but there really isn't one guaranteed totally automatic solution to every situation.

In practice, it's usually easier to mix and match takes - so record lots of them and compromise. If a certain phrase is off whack but really nailed the anguish and another one sits perfectly with maybe 85% anguish, you have to weigh which feels more important.

If you just want to vary the tempo of an overall project, you can use markers in the top time line to create sudden changes of tempo or gradual accels/dims. Make sure you get the settings right though, or you might wind up smurfing the audio.

Good thing to do actually - since so much music production these days is to click or programmed, a little bit of tempo variation can really help to humanise things. Even musicians with really good internal clocks instinctively constantly use little tempo variations for expressive purposes.

In real life, tempo is always a bit variable.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:10 AM   #8
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Thank you!
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:26 AM   #9
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You would need to lay down a ruler grid and make it conform to the already recorded music as mentioned. This is one of the most fiddly PITA things you could think of to do with an audio project! You ONLY want to go through that exercise if you really really really need an automated MIDI drum track (or a completely separate recording not in time to the one you're working on) to match up (I could say mash up).

Otherwise, the backing track you are recording to is your timebase itself. Listen and record as always.

From the posts you've written and what your goals appear to be, I recommend just sticking to recording your vocals to the existing backing tracks you're working with.

Taking audio apart and putting it back together with grid references and all that is heavy frankenstein work. Much more work intensive than even recording a full band yourself IMHO. (It can be anyway, depending on scope.)

I think you should forget making science projects out of refurbishing or reinventing those stepped on stems you're getting and focus on your vocal recording as you originally set out to do.
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Taking audio apart and putting it back together with grid references and all that is heavy frankenstein work. Much more work intensive than even recording a full band yourself IMHO. (It can be anyway, depending on scope.)
Agreed. Never mind bands, I've recorded orchestras and it's been less hassle than this stuff. Mind you, that does involve a lot of Frankensteining, but usually it's a patchwork of stretched takes (because of bleed).

And anyway, I much prefer the "best overall through take with a few sticking plasters" approach.

I have some rather strong feelings about making recordings artificially "perfect". It's not real, and you can often smell that it isn't, plus it does all kinds of strange and often not terribly positive things to the attitude and expectations of both musicians and audiences.

I'll take inspired performance with some slips over expertly engineered perfection any day.

If anything, I prefer using this kind of stuff to humanise computer music rather than to artificialise human performances.

One thing the OP could do would be spend some time on the backing, subtly varying the tempo just by using markers to add a little humanity, then record his vocals to the result.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:51 AM   #11
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forcing one pre-recorded track to fit an even grid is not nearly as hard or time consuming as it's being made to sound...

or, i'm a wizard with infinite patience (i'm not)
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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
What are you doing where the actual tempo matters?
+1

Maybe the songs are listed with variable tempos because they are performances that aren't quantized all to f$k and back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lyon View Post
I have some rather strong feelings about making recordings artificially "perfect". It's not real, and you can often smell that it isn't.
^This. With some genres, it's part of the genre, expected, and sounds like it should because of it - for a lot of other music, it's artificial, and is the equivalent of editing the crap out of a magazine cover with photoshop - don't chase that dragon, once something is popular enough to become the norm, you are already too late to the game.
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