True Stereo Reverb using ReaVerb (Revisited)..

[Tod]

Originally Posted by saddle

I believe that Cockos released a fix for Reaverb in their ReaPack V2.1 vst's (Free) just two weeks ago. Also in Reaper 4.32 I _Think_. Anyway, it addressed the mono/stereo issue in ReaVerb. I don't know what they fixed, but I remember reading the notes.

From the download page changelog for Reaper 4.32:

ReaVerb:

fixed incorrect transition from mono to stereo signals with stereo impulses
corrected latency immediately after samplerate change

Maybe this will do what you want? I as well have setup a (what I thought) true stereo reverb with ReaVerb and stereo impulses. Maybe I haven't been getting 'True Stereo' either??

Thanks saddle, I just tested this today with V4.32 and it still doesn't seem to be fixed.

Edit: I also posted about this in the Release thread.

[wuffel]

Apparently suggesting it in feature requests wasn't the right place so I give my thoughts here.
In my opinion asking an upgrade for ReaVerb for only true-stereo setup is kind of limiting. One should think of a modular system with "unlimited" parallel convolutions with presets for true-stereo, 5.1, 7.1, quadrophonic, octophonic etc.
Using multiple ReaVerbs that we are forced to do right now is really like using multiple ReaComps simulating an Xcomp, doable but awkward and inconvenient.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by wuffel

In my opinion asking an upgrade for ReaVerb for only true-stereo setup is kind of limiting. One should think of a modular system with "unlimited" parallel convolutions with presets for true-stereo, 5.1, 7.1, quadrophonic, octophonic etc.
Using multiple ReaVerbs that we are forced to do right now is really like using multiple ReaComps simulating an Xcomp, doable but awkward and inconvenient.

Heh heh, maybe wuffe, but I'm an old fart and would like to live long enough to at least have True Stereo ReaVerb.

Then go for the 5.1, 7.1.

[heda]

I'm learning to use Reaverb now

Tod, I'm using your template for Stereo bus. Thanks I think it works good and as long as I don't need to touch the parameters of the reverb I'm fine having two instances of Reaverb in the FX Chain since I am probably not going to touch it once it is set.

I've tried to use a single reaverb for stereo.. using the M-to-S.wav files of the M7 impulses library. and setting the Width to 0.00 in Reaverb. Testing a stereo file with a mono sound on the left only.. With the default parameter width at 1.0 I can only hear the reverb on the left channel, but with width at 0.0 I can hear the reverb on both channels.. But I'm not sure what I am doing here... Probably not the same as true stereo right?

I have some questions about ZL and LL parameters of Reaverb here if someone here knows...http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=121190
Thanks

[Tod]

Originally Posted by heda

I've tried to use a single reaverb for stereo.. using the M-to-S.wav files of the M7 impulses library. and setting the Width to 0.00 in Reaverb. Testing a stereo file with a mono sound on the left only.. With the default parameter width at 1.0 I can only hear the reverb on the left channel, but with width at 0.0 I can hear the reverb on both channels.. But I'm not sure what I am doing here... Probably not the same as true stereo right?

Hi heda, I don't presume to be an expert on this but no, if you're using one stereo impulse it's not True Stereo. True Stereo requires 2 stereo impulses.

It appears to me that the Width basically controls the pan of the ReaVerb input. At 1.0 it mirrors the pan settings of the tracks coming in. At 0.0 it forces all incoming signals to the center. At -1.0 it's the same as 1.0 only in reverse, left is right / right is left.

I have some questions about ZL and LL parameters of Reaverb here if someone here knows...http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=121190
Thanks

I'm not sure about your questions regarding these two settings, they do affect performance (less latency) at the cost of CPU. Since the CPU goes up I'd think the quality might be unaffected but don't know for sure.

[heda]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi heda, I don't presume to be an expert on this but no, if you're using one stereo impulse it's not True Stereo. True Stereo requires 2 stereo impulses.

It appears to me that the Width basically controls the pan of the ReaVerb input. At 1.0 it mirrors the pan settings of the tracks coming in. At 0.0 it forces all incoming signals to the center. At -1.0 it's the same as 1.0 only in reverse, left is right / right is left.

Thanks Tod
I understand now
Learning each day.

[satyatunes]

I used the track template. Loaded two impulses in both instances of Reaverb. Sent a sampletank piano track to this Reaverb track. It introduced latency. If I mute the Reaverb track then it comes back to normal. Is that expected? Did I do something wrong?

[heda]

Originally Posted by satyatunes

I used the track template. Loaded two impulses in both instances of Reaverb. Sent a sampletank piano track to this Reaverb track. It introduced latency. If I mute the Reaverb track then it comes back to normal. Is that expected? Did I do something wrong?

check the ZL option on both reaverbs.. Latency gone

[satyatunes]

Originally Posted by heda

check the ZL option on both reaverbs.. Latency gone

Worked. Thanks for the advice.

[HiAMP]

Originally Posted by Tod

Your welcome dug dog, if you need some good impulses try these Samplicity IRs, they're free and quite good.

http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m...lse-responses/

Hi Todd,
thanks for your excellent true stereo FX chain. I am still trying to get my head around true stereo reverb impulse files and was wondering about how to run the quad (true stereo) IRs from samplicity into this chain. They are 4 channel files (i suppose 1L,1R, 2L, 2R ?). Do i need to split them into a pair of 2 channel files to use with the FX chain you defined?

Thanks.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by HiAMP

Do i need to split them into a pair of 2 channel files to use with the FX chain you defined?

Hello HiAMP, if you're using the Samplicity IRs there are three stereo files in each folder. One is for non-True Stereo Reverb marked M-to-S(Mono-to-Stereo), you just load it into one instance of ReaVerb.

The other two are stereo files marks L & R for use with True Stereo Reverb. You shouldn't have to split any files, just load the "L" stereo file into the first instance of ReaVerb and then the "R" stereo file into the second instance of ReaVerb. That should do it.

Does that help, if not let me know.

[HiAMP]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hello HiAMP, if you're using the Samplicity IRs there are three stereo files in each folder. One is for non-True Stereo Reverb marked M-to-S(Mono-to-Stereo), you just load it into one instance of ReaVerb.

The other two are stereo files marks L & R for use with True Stereo Reverb. You shouldn't have to split any files, just load the "L" stereo file into the first instance of ReaVerb and then the "R" stereo file into the second instance of ReaVerb. That should do it.

Does that help, if not let me know.

Hi Tod,
I appreciate your help. I see the folders with the files you mentioned. I was confused by the formats available at Samplicity as there is also a "Quad" channel format which basically just has 1 file with 4 channels. I thought I needed two separate L/R channels (hence 4 distinct channels) to feed your Reaverb template (and I believe Reverberate accepts Quad files directly) for True Stereo. If you happen to know about using Quad files as well, any insight is appreciated.
Thanks!

[Tod]

Originally Posted by HiAMP

Hi Tod,
I appreciate your help. I see the folders with the files you mentioned. I was confused by the formats available at Samplicity as there is also a "Quad" channel format which basically just has 1 file with 4 channels. I thought I needed two separate L/R channels (hence 4 distinct channels) to feed your Reaverb template (and I believe Reverberate accepts Quad files directly) for True Stereo. If you happen to know about using Quad files as well, any insight is appreciated.
Thanks!

Hi HiAMP, no I've never used them. I assume they are for Convo Verbs that do. I just basically use ReaVerb for this task and they require the 2 stereo files.

It might be interesting to find out which convolution verbs do take the quads.

[Peter Emanuel Roos]

Hi guys,

Peter here from Samplicity. Thanks for the nice words on my free Bricasti M7 IR libs. Don't forget I have also created libs of the Lexicon 960L and TCE System 6000. Same, actually slightly better quality as the M7 ones.

I have not yet checked True Stereo in Reaverb, but will do. Reverberate is able to read my quad files, just like REVerence from Steinberg.

In cooperation with the guys from www.OrchestralTools.com I recently sampled the Teldex Studio (Berlin) at many orchestral positions with the Decca Tree, the A/B pair and surround mics. The IRs sound super, got very nice feedback on the VI-Control forum on some early demos.

I am now researching to develop a custom convo plugin that focuses on the early reflections (with the position info) - I am at this point not planning a commercial release of all the Berlin IRs - that is: in the same open format.

In my research so far, I am really impressed by the low CPU load of Reverberate!

To my regret I found several serious coding errors in the WDL/OL convoengine (in the demo example, but as well in convoengine.cpp itself. I hope Reaverb is not based on this code version.

Cheers!

Peter

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Peter Emanuel Roos

Reverberate is able to read my quad files, just like REVerence from Steinberg.

Wow, ask and you shall receive. Hi Peter, good to see you here.

In cooperation with the guys from www.OrchestralTools.com I recently sampled the Teldex Studio (Berlin) at many orchestral positions with the Decca Tree, the A/B pair and surround mics. The IRs sound super, got very nice feedback on the VI-Control forum on some early demos.

I've been following you on VI-Control for years Peter and this sounds good. In case others might like to check it out, here's the link.

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33193

[Peter Emanuel Roos]

Thanks Tod!

[timbralzoom]

Tod,Peter Thank you so much for the Track template and IR s ,
much appreciated!

[Tod]

Originally Posted by timbralzoom

Tod,Peter Thank you so much for the Track template and IR s ,
much appreciated!

You're very welcome timbralzoom..

[Goldreap]

Originally Posted by Tod

...

It might be interesting to find out which convolution verbs do take the quads.

Melda's MultiBandConvolution has two processing slots (filters) which can be parallel or series.
For each slot you can either load a quad, or, browse to say Bricasti L and it will load Bricasti R as well.
You can choose various true stereo configurations..LLRR, LRLR, LRRL, RLLR.
Then you can do all that in the other slot as well..so, two true stereo reverbs superimposed...
...and, you can do all of the above for each of up to 6 adjustable frequency bands...the mind boggles...sounds great.

[X-Raym]

So Reaverb is not True Stereo.
All my life was a lie.

^^

[X-Raym]

If i understand, if i just have a stereo IR file, it's in fact not for True Stereo setup, so i just had to hard pan (left or right) the two instances of Reaverb to make it parralel stereo ?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

If i understand, if i just have a stereo IR file, it's in fact not for True Stereo setup, so i just had to hard pan (left or right) the two instances of Reaverb to make it parralel stereo ?

Hi X-Raym, if an impulse library has true stereo IR files they usually also have the M-to-S (Mono-to-Stereo) files which are the most commonly used IRs.

True stereo IRs have a left stereo file and a right stereo file. If I understand it correctly there are now also quad files which are really I think the combination of the two left & right files.

A true stereo convolution reverb will be able to accomodate the true stereo files (a few the quad) and usually also be setup for the M-to-S files.

Of course this whole thread is about using ReaVerb to get True Stereo Reverb.

[James HE]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

If i understand, if i just have a stereo IR file, it's in fact not for True Stereo setup, so i just had to hard pan (left or right) the two instances of Reaverb to make it parralel stereo ?

no, this isn't true stereo. you can't make "true stereo" from a stereo impulse. "true stereo" is really a property of the impulses themselves.

it's about how the impulse is captured.

a normal stereo impulse is a capture of a single source in a single position in stereo.

a "true stereo" impulse is a capture of that source in two positions, in two stereo files.

[X-Raym]

Thanks for your answers !

The things is i don't know how my stereo files where recorded. It is stereo impulse files from Voxengo, which are build from http://www.voxengo.com/product/imodeler/. I just ask their technical support :P

The next is about parallel stereo so i will open an other thread soon :P

Do you have any good website which speak about the process of true stereo capture ? i would to see what kind of microphone and setup it is used.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

Thanks for your answers !

The things is i don't know how my stereo files where recorded. It is stereo impulse files from Voxengo, which are build from http://www.voxengo.com/product/imodeler/. I just ask their technical support :P

The next is about parallel stereo so i will open an other thread soon :P

Do you have any good website which speak about the process of true stereo capture ? i would to see what kind of microphone and setup it is used.

I don't know anything about the Voxengo stuff but check out post #56, Peter Roos I think has the best free True Stereo IRs. Peter is a great guy, you might be able to contact him and if he's not too busy he might be able to help you in that regard.

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=56

Check his signature.

[X-Raym]

Thanks !

I think i also just thing great reading for tonight :
https://www.soundeffects.ch/en/tutor...and-stereo.php

[arash_gsf]

Hello!

I'm kind of excited when I read this topic. short story: I'm visually impaired, and my ScreenReader software which I use to work with the computer, and also reaper, cannot interact with beautiful GUIs in many convolution plugins.
EG: I've tried poulin's lecab, NadIR, recabinet, and some more and I couldn't work with neither of them.
However since the great guys in REAPER develop accessible plugins (ReaVerb) alongside of their great DAW, I can only use this one.
I always wanted to use two stereo speaker cabinet IRS for my guitar track, so I get that wide broad sound that I want.
Is the true stereo thingy that is discussed here enables ReaVerb to load two IRS for stereo?
I'm not a native English speaker, and reading the first page of this thread made me so confused.

I would probably be very amazed if this is the one solution that I was looking for, since i'm stuck to using mono IRS in ReaVerb, and I can't work with other third party plugins either

[Tod]

Originally Posted by arash_gsf

I always wanted to use two stereo speaker cabinet IRS for my guitar track, so I get that wide broad sound that I want.
Is the true stereo thingy that is discussed here enables ReaVerb to load two IRS for stereo?

Hi arash_gsf, just using two stereo IRs is not the same thing as using stereo impulses that are created in the same space for True Stereo Reverb.

I would probably be very amazed if this is the one solution that I was looking for, since i'm stuck to using mono IRS in ReaVerb, and I can't work with other third party plugins either

I don't really have a clue what you might be able to do but it don't hurt to experiment.

True Stereo IRs have two Stereo inputs and outputs. I think since most stereo IRs are Mono in and Stereo out, it would be rather hard to get them to sound good, they'd basically sound stacked. Heh heh, I'm using my imagination for that.

However, if you've got 2 Mono IRs, you could load each one up in an instance of ReaVerb on the same track. Then send one instance out pin-1 and the other out pin-2. That would give you stereo sound using the 2 IRs.

If you come up with something arash_gsf, let us know.

[arash_gsf]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi arash_gsf, just using two stereo IRs is not the same thing as using stereo impulses that are created in the same space for True Stereo Reverb.



I don't really have a clue what you might be able to do but it don't hurt to experiment.

True Stereo IRs have two Stereo inputs and outputs. I think since most stereo IRs are Mono in and Stereo out, it would be rather hard to get them to sound good, they'd basically sound stacked. Heh heh, I'm using my imagination for that.

However, if you've got 2 Mono IRs, you could load each one up in an instance of ReaSamplOmatic (RS5K) on the same track. Then send one instance out pin-1 and the other out pin-2. That would give you stereo sound using the 2 IRs.

If you come up with something arash_gsf, let us know.

Hi Tod
Well, I have never seen a pare of IRS for guitar speaker cabinet IRS, though there are for example one cabinet, and two IRS each recorded by a microphone, from different positions.

don't laugh at me but I have never used ReaSamplOmatic, still a reaper noob, but I will give it a shot
Is there a settings in it that would let me to send the signal to pin1 and pin2? infact I will check it now after i'm done writing this post....

[Tod]

Originally Posted by arash_gsf

Hi Tod
Well, I have never seen a pare of IRS for guitar speaker cabinet IRS, though there are for example one cabinet, and two IRS each recorded by a microphone, from different positions.

don't laugh at me but I have never used ReaSamplOmatic, still a reaper noob, but I will give it a shot
Is there a settings in it that would let me to send the signal to pin1 and pin2? infact I will check it now after i'm done writing this post....

I'm sorry arash_gsf, I don't know where my head was, I meant ReaVerb not ReaSamplOmatic.

Heh heh, well maybe you'll find a neat use for ReaSamplOmatic.

Anyway, I'm going to edit my post.

Again I'm sorry.

[ashcat_lt]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

Thanks for your answers !

The things is i don't know how my stereo files where recorded. It is stereo impulse files from Voxengo, which are build from http://www.voxengo.com/product/imodeler/. I just ask their technical support :P

This is kind of old, but I have the answer to this question. The Impulse Modeler does not itself make "True Stereo" impulse files. It is Mono-in, Stereo-out. In fact, I think it pretty well illustrates the difference.

If your "room" is completely symmetrical from left to right - including the "microphone position" - you can put the source somewhere off center and generate an impulse. Then you load it into two instances of ReaVerb with one of them channel swapped as I think this template does and you've got True Stereo. If it's somehow asymmetrical, and you want to actually represent that asymmetry, then you will need to actually create one impulse with the source on the left and a second with the source on the right.

[Jaybee]

Thanks Tod!

Very late to this thread but the sound of Reaverb in True Stereo with Peter's wonderful Bricasti impulses is great. Many thanks for the pioneering routing

Would be nice if Reaverb saw an update at some point to load L/R or Quad files in one instance. I've voted up the FR earlier in the thread. Here's hoping.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by Tod

I don't have time to put anything together right at the moment. About the only thing I have is a Star Trek theme that I used my own custom orchestra library on. It was an Orchestra Shootout contest, heh heh, I won 5th place which got me a free library.

Anyway I used ReaVerb (True Stereo) on it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63198126/00%...axBitRate).mp3

Very good sounding Tod!

[Serenitynow]

What would happen if you used two different IRs in a True stereo setup...would the earth be shaken from it's axis?! Seriously, though.

Are there readily available audio demos regular stereo reverb VS. True Stereo to hear the difference? Do all/many soundtracks and songs use TS?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Thanks Tod!

Very late to this thread but the sound of Reaverb in True Stereo with Peter's wonderful Bricasti impulses is great. Many thanks for the pioneering routing

Would be nice if Reaverb saw an update at some point to load L/R or Quad files in one instance. I've voted up the FR earlier in the thread. Here's hoping.

Your welcome Jaybee, and Yes I agree, it would certainly make things a lot simpler only needing one ReaVerb.

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Very good sounding Tod!

Thanks Geir, I got the Garritan JABB3 (big band jazz) library with that.

Originally Posted by Serenitynow

What would happen if you used two different IRs in a True stereo setup...would the earth be shaken from it's axis?! Seriously, though.

Heh heh, I don't know, it could be interesting, I wonder how that might work on a mono acoustic guitar, I'm always trying to get a stereo sound out of mono. Seriously, I might give that a shot down the road.

Are there readily available audio demos regular stereo reverb VS. True Stereo to hear the difference? Do all/many soundtracks and songs use TS?

Not that I know of, I've done some experimenting with different things, but never came to any real conclusions.

I do think it really helps good stereo orchestra libraries though.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by Tod

Thanks Geir, I got the Garritan JABB3 (big band jazz) library with that.

That is a library I like. Congrats!

[cyrano]

Originally Posted by Tod

Your welcome dug dog, if you need some good impulses try these Samplicity IRs, they're free and quite good.

http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m...lse-responses/

Thx, Tod, these really are superb!

[Goldreap]

Comparing Stereo to True Stereo.
With Stereo I feel like I'm standing outside the room listening through an open window to the sound in the room.
With True Stereo I feel like I'm in the room.

[Dynsdale]

Ever since I stumbled across this thread a couple of years ago, I've had a true stereo bus on most of my projects. It's a very neat safety net for gluing a project together. A belated thank you Tod for investigating this subject and sharing your results.

[SJM]

Yes, I would also like to add my thanks Tod. It helped me set up a true stereo send which works well(I think I've done it right).

It would still be nice for ReaVerb to accept quad IR files and/or 2 sets of stereo files. It would make auditioning IR's and general organisation easier.

Please vote for it here...
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1843