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Old 12-07-2022, 06:09 AM   #1
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Default Window corruption (SOLVED)

Any ideas?:


Basically window stops redrawing, picks up stuff behind it (like my Kate editor and Plasma wallpaper in a concertina fashion!). It responds enough to click on the X to close but that's about it. No other apps affected which leads me to be believe it is either a REAPER Linux bug or a REAPER Linux + Arch/KDE thing.

I notice it most when I have other stuff open (like browser, editor) in the foreground and attempt to return to REAPER. Could be just a coincidence.
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Old 12-07-2022, 06:52 AM   #2
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Hi Beth

I might not be contributing too much with this, but I never saw anything remotely similar in Manjaro XFCE. When using JACK, sometimes the UI might be a little unresponsive in certain conditions (mainly with heavy-ish projects), but nothing of the sort of issue you're showing there. Could it be be KDE-related?
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Old 12-07-2022, 07:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
Could it be be KDE-related?
Could be. I can install XFCE and see if the problem disappears but it's a bit of a pain that's all!
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Old 12-07-2022, 08:12 AM   #4
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I've also never encountered that, so I can't really offer any helpful advice. (On Gnome/X11 myself.)

Any particular plugins that could be causing REAPER to crash? It could be conceivable that something's causing REAPER to just freeze and stop updating the window. In my experience REAPER crashes/freezes are almost always caused by misbehaving plugins.

Are you on X11 or Wayland, btw? No idea if that could be a factor, but asking just for the sake of completeness... Any notable updates to KDE, or graphics drivers, or other possibly related software prior to the issue starting?
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Old 12-07-2022, 09:17 AM   #5
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I can't replicate that problem. I have Plasma 5.25.5, X11. Reaper 6.71

Maybe start reaper from a terminal window, see if it shows some enlightening message. Or find a specific action that triggers the error. Are you getting this with an empty session?

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Old 12-07-2022, 09:36 AM   #6
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Weird. I can't replicate this behaviour either (on Manjaro KDE).
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Old 12-07-2022, 10:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcalen View Post
I've also never encountered that, so I can't really offer any helpful advice. (On Gnome/X11 myself.)

Any particular plugins that could be causing REAPER to crash? It could be conceivable that something's causing REAPER to just freeze and stop updating the window. In my experience REAPER crashes/freezes are almost always caused by misbehaving plugins.

Are you on X11 or Wayland, btw? No idea if that could be a factor, but asking just for the sake of completeness... Any notable updates to KDE, or graphics drivers, or other possibly related software prior to the issue starting?
As a test, I'm keeping a clean REAPER open (sans plugins) and will see if I get the redraw issues after a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Largos View Post
Are you getting this with an empty session?
Could be a yabridge + wine-tkg + VST combo...I'm currently on 5.02 and 7.22.r3 respectively. I did downgrade to wine-tkg 7.13 but same issue (I'll double-check that too) so hopefully not the bug that crept in from 7.21 onwards. I think that crashed REAPER on startup though (or at least first time yabridge was invoked?).
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Old 12-07-2022, 03:44 PM   #8
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A couple of updates...an empty REAPER session (with no yabridged VSTs) didn't suffer any of the window corruption so I can probably rule the DAW out. I've also switched to regular wine-staging 7.20 from wine-tkg to see if that makes a difference.

EDIT: So far, so good!
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Old 12-07-2022, 08:41 PM   #9
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Nice wallpaper.
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Old 12-08-2022, 01:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Nice wallpaper.
Milky Way by ruvkr. It's one of the included KDE/Plasma wallpapers: https://github.com/ruvkr/milkyway
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Old 12-08-2022, 01:33 AM   #11
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No further display issues so I'm putting my money on wine-tkg causing the issue. Strange because I compile from git (using default profile) and tried setting various staging versions including from before the recent bugs.

EDIT: Could also have been some Waves V14 plugins that I have since deleted.

EDIT2: Oh dear. Window issues are back using wine-staging 7.20 and non-Waves yabridged plugins Seeing if this happens in Ardour 7.1...
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Old 12-08-2022, 04:07 AM   #12
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No problems on Debian 11 with xfce and reaper 6.71 wine staging 7.22 pipewire and yabridge 5.02 .
How is the memory usage when it happens?
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Old 12-08-2022, 04:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve9600 View Post
No problems on Debian 11 with xfce and reaper 6.71 wine staging 7.22 pipewire and yabridge 5.02 .
How is the memory usage when it happens?
Nothing of note. Weirdly, everything is responsive including menus etc, I just can't see them!

EDIT: Before taking more drastic and unthinkable action, I've totally removed pipewire (at least the audio parts) so REAPER is running on pure ALSA.
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Old 12-08-2022, 04:56 AM   #14
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Leave a note to robbert-vdh on the yabridge link see what he thinks.
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Old 12-08-2022, 05:08 AM   #15
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I would be surprised if pipewire was the cause of graphical glitches like that. But of course everything's worth testing... If it's not related to specific plugins and/or wine (though that could probably still be a possibility), my next uneducated guess would be something related to the window manager, graphics drivers, etc... Seems like a tricky one to hunt down, especially if no one else is encountering the same issue and you can't reliably narrow down the exact circumstances that trigger the issue...

Have you looked at terminal output, system logs, etc at all? I know that can often be like looking for a needle in a haystack, but maybe there's some error message somewhere that could be a hint...
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Old 12-08-2022, 05:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve9600 View Post
Leave a note to robbert-vdh on the yabridge link see what he thinks.
I think I might have a better idea now. Not yabridge, wine or REAPER but pipewire default dynamic quantum size crashing REAPER (apparently there's evidence it can crash Ardour/Mixbus).

I hadn't set any pipewire settings on my latest Arch install given I assumed using only pipewire-alsa wouldn't cause any issues. While I'll stick with vanilla ALSA for now, I think locking the buffer size ("quantum") might solve things. Plus, I think people following my guides would end up with a locked quantum in any case.

Strangely as soon as I had uninstalled pipewire stuff (including kpipewire which made my taskbar disappear) transmission suffered the same graphical issues (never ever happened before). So, I am curious whether pipewire can cause graphical issues. Certainly latest distros seems to ship with some subset of pipewire under the hood in order for the desktop to function properly.

EDIT: running REAPER in the background for over an hour and no issues as yet...
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Old 12-08-2022, 05:49 AM   #17
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Pipewire supposedly handles different buffer sizes on the fly…so a post I read recommended not setting things like that as it might break pipewire.
And no I don’t remember where that was or even if it’s right.
I had issues with one of the early releases but a update cleared that up.
I am using the testing branch for pipewire and qwgraph.here is a gui to set pipewire.
https://github.com/portaloffreedom/pipecontrol
Haven’t tried it.

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Old 12-08-2022, 05:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve9600 View Post
Pipewire supposedly handles different buffer sizes on the fly…so a post I read recommended not setting things like that as it might break pipewire.
And no I don’t remember where that was or even if it’s right.
I had issues with one of the early releases but a update cleared that up.
I am using the testing branch for pipewire and qwgraph.here is a gui to set pipewire.
https://github.com/portaloffreedom/pipecontrol
Haven’t tried it.
If you are using pipewire-jack in a DAW, I think you need to set a quantum (and sample rate) otherwise you get the extremely long default which is unusable for for low-latency audio monitoring. But we might be talking about different things as I assume you already set a reasonably low buffer when in the DAW.

The good news is that it seems my window redraw issues are definitely gone. Even back on wine-tkg 7.20 so I can only assume it had something to do with a pipewire setting (or lack thereof).
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Old 12-08-2022, 06:21 AM   #19
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As far as a buffer setting I’ve run at 256 -1024 without any noticeable latency.. both reaper and Ardour.
I will try for a lower setting sometime but really no need as everything is running smooth.
Reaper is set at 512 and using midiguitar2 it wants 256 whatever it runs at I have had no x runs.
And very little fx cpu usage. ( performance viewer).
Pipewire 3.61.1
https://packages.debian.org/sid/pipewire

Glad to hear it’s working.
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Old 12-08-2022, 06:41 AM   #20
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Hm. Ubuntu 22.10 runs pipewire-pulse by default, but I don't think it runs pipewire-alsa (or jack). (I think the same applies to recent Debian versions, which I've used before.) So REAPER for me is presumably still using pure alsa. And since I haven't encountered any particular audio issues, I don't feel a need to mess with that...

Hopefully that's actually solved the issue for you... Fingers crossed. I know it's annoying to test for issues that don't have obvious reproducible triggers...
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Old 12-08-2022, 06:52 AM   #21
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Oh well, spoke to soon and jinxed it. I'm at a loss. htop etc looks absolutely normal. I'm on an RX6600 card FWIW and this will be my next line of inquiry...
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Old 12-08-2022, 08:58 AM   #22
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What kernel ?

https://mxlinux.org/blog/debians-lin...ated-graphics/
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Old 12-08-2022, 09:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve9600 View Post
6.0.11-arch1-1. The RX6600 isn't integrated graphics either.

I'm going down so many rabbit holes when it comes to vulkan, dxvk, amdgpu etc that I'm seriously considering moving my audio work to Win11 and using Arch for everything else!
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Old 12-08-2022, 10:03 AM   #24
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Default Hurrah, I discovered the trigger!

So if I run
Code:
xset dpms force off
on waking the screen it reliably causes REAPER window redraw issues even without any tracks created. Essentially, in my tests, REAPER window has become corrupted when I allow monitor power saving to kick in. Now, an easy fix is obviously to stop my monitor turning off but I also remember having to disable KScreen 2 for automatic power saving to work with my system (a known issue and a known hacky fix while we wait for KDE to figure things out). Not sure if this is the cause but I feel like I'm getting somewhere.

Very weird that it only affects the REAPER window.
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Old 12-08-2022, 01:50 PM   #25
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Wine gave me a complaint about not being set to performance. That was in the winecfg terminal.
So maybe it would work better set to performance. And that would only affect reaper though yabridge being used?
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Old 12-08-2022, 03:14 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve9600 View Post
Wine gave me a complaint about not being set to performance. That was in the winecfg terminal.
So maybe it would work better set to performance. And that would only affect reaper though yabridge being used?
My CPU governor is set to performance. I'm talking about "energy saving" in KDE/Plasma:
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Old 12-08-2022, 03:24 PM   #27
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Those settings are all turned off on my system, never trusted them really.
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Old 12-08-2022, 03:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve9600 View Post
Those settings are all turned off on my system, never trusted them really.
Probably you are correct. I use them to save on the energy bills that's all.
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Old 12-08-2022, 05:52 PM   #29
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One thing you could try is, next time it happens, restart plasma by typing in terminal: plasmashell --replace
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Old 12-09-2022, 12:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Largos View Post
One thing you could try is, next time it happens, restart plasma by typing in terminal: plasmashell --replace
Doesn't fix the REAPER window unfortunately. I suppose the question now is can anyone recreate the window corruption by running
Code:
xset dpms force off
?
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:30 AM   #31
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No, the screen(s) turns off for a short bit and then it comes back. I am not familiar with the command or what it's supposed to achieve but I type xset q after and it still reports dpms as on. So, I am not sure whether it's doing what it's supposed too.
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Old 12-09-2022, 03:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Largos View Post
No, the screen(s) turns off for a short bit and then it comes back. I am not familiar with the command or what it's supposed to achieve but I type xset q after and it still reports dpms as on. So, I am not sure whether it's doing what it's supposed too.
If the screen comes back on by itself it probably means your dpms stuff might be broken as the monitor should stay off until you press a key or wiggle your mouse. That's why I had to disable KScreen 2 as a temporary hack in KDE/Plasma.

In any case, I've reinstalled pipewire so back exactly where I was but with knowledge of how to trigger/avoid the issue. I filed as a REAPER bug too given no other applications are affected but if I'm the only one, I doubt it will get looked at.
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Old 12-09-2022, 04:30 AM   #33
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Great! Glad you didn’t go back to win 11.
It was the screen saver?
I am off grid solar power only and have always been in the habit of shutting things down when not in use.
Also try to have anything ( like screen savers) off so as not to interrupt a session.
And it takes forever to boot up …30 secs? Lol
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Old 12-09-2022, 08:44 AM   #34
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BTW
could not repeat this error in Debian xfce. Reaper wakes just like it was left….loaded with plugins.
KDE or arch issue maybe.
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Old 12-09-2022, 09:47 AM   #35
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Quote:
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KDE or arch issue maybe.
Yes, perhaps, but strange no other applications are ever affected, including Ardour 7.1.
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Old 12-09-2022, 07:46 PM   #36
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I am on 6.69 with Ubuntu Studio after I upgraded to this version I saw what Beth has described a few times, though not on a monitor sleep, it was opening a VST as I recall. Have project that fail to open, have session crash.

After I get a fail to open a project I get a "Your last attempt to open Project XXX failed would you like to open it now" sort of message, then it will open.

What I am saying is post version 6.69 not so smooth and stable anymore here.
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Old 12-10-2022, 06:05 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obx777 View Post
I am on 6.69 with Ubuntu Studio after I upgraded to this version I saw what Beth has described a few times, though not on a monitor sleep, it was opening a VST as I recall. Have project that fail to open, have session crash.

After I get a fail to open a project I get a "Your last attempt to open Project XXX failed would you like to open it now" sort of message, then it will open.

What I am saying is post version 6.69 not so smooth and stable anymore here.
Probably different issues then. As others have said, and I'm in agreement, most of the time it's due to a problematic VST. For my particular issue, when I turn the energy saving settings off in Plasma, I don't get the window corruption and REAPER itself is stable as a horse's lodging.
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Old 12-14-2022, 07:43 AM   #38
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@Guest20221211
There is on the reaper -prefs -audio a place to have reaper suspend power management while using reaper….maybe this would solve the issue? And still give you the power savings.
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Old 12-20-2022, 12:02 AM   #39
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Check the KDE Plasma setting ratio and magnifier enlargement? Problem could be between Plasma and the aspect ratio vs sizing and resolution. What monitor you have?
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Old 01-16-2023, 03:31 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Check the KDE Plasma setting ratio and magnifier enlargement? Problem could be between Plasma and the aspect ratio vs sizing and resolution. What monitor you have?
Philips 273V. Settings are are defaults of 1920x1080 (16:9), 60Hz refresh rate and global scale of 100%.

Quote:
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@Guest20221211
There is on the reaper -prefs -audio a place to have reaper suspend power management while using reaper….maybe this would solve the issue? And still give you the power savings.
It's not quite the same thing in that it might mess with CPU DMA latency stuff similar to the newer options in Ardour. I don't know what values REAPER uses but certain systems can overheat or be thermally throttled with that setting enabled (mainly laptops?). Anyway, I'd avoid that if at all possible unless we have clarity that it uses a non-zero latency value (i.e. C1 state). It seems to be a Linux-only setting so I can't find it in the PDF manual.
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