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11-29-2019, 04:17 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 7
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Windows 10 UWP API Integration for BLE MIDI handling from CME XKEY, Korg Microkey Air
Windows 10 UWP API Integration for BLE MIDI handling from CME XKEY, Korg Microkey Air
My BLE MIDI devices don't show up in Reaper's device list, or don't work properly. My CME Xkey air doesn't show up at all, and my Korg MicroKey Air shows up but "isn't found" or there's another error (sorry, I'll have to document it later).
Currently, I use MidiBerry to route the incoming CME XKey Air signal to a virtual Loopmidi port, which is then recognized by Reaper. I use WindsynthBerry
NewBodyFresher's MidiBerry and WindSynthBerry appear to be the only apps that can recognize and route Bluetooth midi signals from my XKey Air. A representative of CME itself said they don't know of any other software that implements Microsoft's UWP API for MIDI properly and they recommend purchasing a special hardware receiver, the WIDI Bud.
For the Korg MicroKey Air, using Korg's BLE driver, other MIDI routing apps like MidiTrix can also route incoming and outgoing signals to a loopMIDI port.
This appears to be the solution, but I don't know if it can be easily integrated into a non-UWP app https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...eo-camera/midi
Last edited by ilovesoca; 11-29-2019 at 04:19 PM.
Reason: Additional information
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11-29-2019, 11:28 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
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AFAIU, "Bluetooth Midi" in Windows is a totally different subsystem than the "Midi devices" subsystem that all Midi aware Software can connect to. (I forgot the correct name of this "Bluetooth Midi" subsystem (is this "UWP" / "BLE" ? ) but - other than all other Windows device drivers for any type of hardware - it somehow is based on C# that no decent developer who has realtime programming in mind will use. So it's just a queer idea by Microsoft.)
Hence Midi hardware that only provides "Bluetooth Midi" drivers will not (decently) work with software that does not come bundled with same.
Some time ago there have been some threads in these forums on "Bluetooth Midi" (I seem to remember that "WIDI" was mentioned there, as well) and I seem to remember that there is some (free) software that creates a standard Midi driver from "Bluetooth Midi" devices but I don't know the name nor where to find it.
Apart from this, Bluetooth might not be realtime aware enough to use "Bluetooth Midi" for Live performing.
See
-> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=194579
-> http://newbodyfresher.linclip.com/ (see Viedo)
-> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/mi...ot:overviewtab
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 11-30-2019 at 04:45 AM.
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02-26-2020, 08:07 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 7
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Thank you for the reply! I forgot to turn notifications on so I just noticed it now.
I ended up purchasing the dedicated USB receiver, a "WIDIbud" for my CME. The WIDI Bud promises to minimize latency below what the built in bluetooth radio and drivers can provide and it does appear to lower latency to a level barely distinguishable from wired, which is great. It costs 75 CAD which is too expensive for me to pair with my three wireless keyboards and one Yamaha UD-BT01, so I think I will just stick with the single WIDIbud for now.
It's interesting what you say about the differences between types of drivers in Windows, because CME (XKey Air) and Korg (Microkey Air) provide different solutions. CME's driver must be purely "Bluetooth MIDI", while Korg provides a driver which is sometimes recognized by Reaper but does not work consistently. In both cases, NewBodyFresher's MIDIBerry + Tobias Erikson's LoopMIDI is an acceptable (if slightly annoying) solution, and the WIDIbud is best, but expensive (the CME WIDIbud can connect with other bluetooth MIDI devices, including the KORG Microkey Air, but pairing with new devices when changing keyboards is also a little annoying).
The thread you linked is also quite interesting and surprisingly heated for a niche topic like this!
I have to say I don't fully understand why NewBodyFresher can implement a MIDI router that detects "Bluetooth MIDI" but Reaper cannot - but I guess it has something to do with C# and UWP.
Thanks again, Michael.
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03-01-2020, 10:38 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 58
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The Korg BLE-MIDI driver is actually usable for any BLE-MIDI device that can be paired in Windows via a standard BLE dongle.
This establishes standard MIDI ports usable by any software.
https://www.korg.com/us/support/down.../0/530/#driver
After installing the driver package just install it manually to a coupled device via device manager, if MIDI ports do not show up automatically.
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03-02-2020, 07:30 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
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They state:
Quote:
The proprietary KORG BLE-MIDI Driver now allows fast and simple wireless connection between your Windows PC and KORG Bluetooth enabled keyboard (such as the nanoSTUDIO series and microKEY Air).
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Any idea what exactly "KORG Bluetooth" is supposed to mean ?
-Michael
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03-05-2020, 10:01 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 58
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Never knew something like "KORG Bluetooth" exists.
There is Bluetooth.
The KORG BLE-MIDI Driver1.12 r42019.07.05 does not destinguish between Korg and non-Korg devices. It just works, if the device is BLE MIDI and can be paired to the Windows PC. So what?
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03-05-2020, 01:36 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
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Seems GREAT !
Is there any small device converting Midi over USB from some device to BLE Midi ? I would LOVE to attach my TEC Breath Controller in a wireless way !
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 03-05-2020 at 01:56 PM.
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04-13-2020, 11:05 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nana
Never knew something like "KORG Bluetooth" exists.
There is Bluetooth.
The KORG BLE-MIDI Driver1.12 r42019.07.05 does not destinguish between Korg and non-Korg devices. It just works, if the device is BLE MIDI and can be paired to the Windows PC. So what?
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How did you manage to make the device use KORG BLE-MIDI driver from the device manager?
I went to the device manager, Bluetooth category and there was the device(in my case cme xkey air). I went to the properties window and went to update driver. But after directing it to use the korg ble midi driver folder and reports to me that optimal driver is already installed(windows default ble driver) and it doesn't let me use the korg driver.
Last edited by cjunekim; 04-13-2020 at 11:17 PM.
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10-24-2020, 07:53 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjunekim
How did you manage to make the device use KORG BLE-MIDI driver from the device manager?
I went to the device manager, Bluetooth category and there was the device(in my case cme xkey air). I went to the properties window and went to update driver. But after directing it to use the korg ble midi driver folder and reports to me that optimal driver is already installed(windows default ble driver) and it doesn't let me use the korg driver.
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Have you managed to make this work?
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12-21-2020, 07:02 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ghent, Belgium
Posts: 336
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any updates or ideas on this ?
I'm trying to create a midi pedal from a arduino nano iot and connect to win10 through BLE (advertising as midi device).
Can connect to ios and android without problem.
Windows 10 is seeing the ble but can't connect.
The korg ble driver doesn't seem to help in anyway.
Greetings.
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12-21-2020, 05:48 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 7
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Nolman, have you tried midiberry + loopmidi?
I don't know of any other pure software driver updates, but CME is now offering more hardware, such as the WIDI Master, that can send and receive BLE Midi.
If Widimaster is a receiver, it will translate to regular wired Midi and send that along, though a MIDI DIN port. But connected directy to a controller as a sender, it appears CME WIDI Master still needs a unique driver on windows, which is sold separately:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/mi...t:overviewtab#
https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master-...it-do-for-you/
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12-23-2020, 12:45 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ghent, Belgium
Posts: 336
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Thanks for the reply,
Tried midiberry, good tip but not working.
I'm switching to a "nano 33 BLE" that has bluetooth and BLE and will try if that will work on windows.
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12-23-2020, 02:32 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolman
Tried midiberry, good tip but not working.
I'm switching to a "nano 33 BLE" that has bluetooth and BLE and will try if that will work on windows.
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Supposedly the problem is not the hardware, but the Midi protocol embedded in the BLE protocol. Here Microsoft uses their on propriety protocol, that is perfectly incompatible with normal Windows Midi devices.
The "KORG BLE-MIDI Driver1.12" is supposed to convert this to a Midi Device Reaper can see.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 12-23-2020 at 03:09 PM.
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12-24-2020, 05:48 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 58
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Sorry for the late reply. I lost my Laptop in a fire and have right now found a backup of my forum password on a long abandoned Vaio P.
The Korg BLE MIDI driver has to be installed before pairing the device. It is needed to make Windows 10 pair with any BLE MIDI device using the system Bluetooth control panel. As soon as pairing is complete, the driver is loaded automatically and the device shows up in the MIDI devices list under it's own name.
If the driver has not been installed before the first pairing of the device, the driver will not be loaded. The only way to make it work is to unpair the device first, then delete all traces of it in the device manager, invisible and nonpresent devices, too. Then install the Korg BLE MIDI driver and then pair the device again.
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01-30-2021, 11:15 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nana
Sorry for the late reply. I lost my Laptop in a fire and have right now found a backup of my forum password on a long abandoned Vaio P.
The Korg BLE MIDI driver has to be installed before pairing the device. It is needed to make Windows 10 pair with any BLE MIDI device using the system Bluetooth control panel. As soon as pairing is complete, the driver is loaded automatically and the device shows up in the MIDI devices list under it's own name.
If the driver has not been installed before the first pairing of the device, the driver will not be loaded. The only way to make it work is to unpair the device first, then delete all traces of it in the device manager, invisible and nonpresent devices, too. Then install the Korg BLE MIDI driver and then pair the device again.
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I've just received a CME WIDI Master, and it is working surprisingly well with Windows 10. I'm using loopMIDI and MIDIberry for it to connect to Reaper. It would be much better to use the Korg driver, but I couldn't manage to force windows to the use the Korg driver instead of the default microsoft drivers.
As you wrote, it is possible to do this, as long as you "delete all traces of it in the device manager, invisible and nonpresent devices, too". Can you elaborate a bit on this?
Thanks!
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10-24-2021, 05:28 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 24
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@schoko
Nowadays the widi master runs well on windows 10 without the korg driver. Let me know if you have difficulties getting it to run. There's a video on youtube by CME on that.
I also have the widi master running on linux, using BlueZ ( http://www.bluez.org/). The most recent versions don't work for some reason. I can check if you are interested. It does have some random/infrequent note loss. So I've been running windows.
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