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Old 01-20-2018, 04:00 PM   #1
PrimeEagle
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Default Routing Question for Orchestral Project

I'm working on an orchestral project, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to route things. I have my tracks grouped under folders for each section. For example, I have a "Woodwinds" folder, and under it are tracks for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, etc. Each of the individual instrument tracks are routed to one of 5 reverb tracks - for Orchestra Row 1-5. All that works fine. But I would also like to be able to adjust the volume for the entire Woodwind section as a whole. To do this, I need to have each individual instrument "send to parent". But if I do that, the parent folder will get the dry signal, and the output will be the dry and wet signals mixed. I want to be able to adjust the volume of the Woodwind section post-reverb.

Is there something I'm missing, or a standard way to do this that I'm not aware of?
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:18 PM   #2
Jason Lyon
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This isn't exactly what you need, but you could adapt it. I wouldn't say it's a standard way of doing things, just the latest iteration of the way I do things.

It's set up for GPO5, but you can swap in your own VSTis. User notes will display on open.

The theme used in the screengrab is Easy on the Eyes Dark.

Template:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ilm5208fcj...atest.rpp?dl=0

Screengrab:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/41wtv2dneq...Temp3.jpg?dl=0

---

GPO5 KS ORCHESTRAL TEMPLATE

This is a mid to late Romantic-era orchestra, not a kitchen sink epic job. Of course, it involves quite a few compromises, but it's practical, durable and pretty efficient on resources.

Can be used either to dump MIDI from a scorewriting program for editing or to perform into directly. Or a bit of both.

It's laid out in traditional score order, the way I'm used to reading, but of course you can move things around to your heart's content. Bear in mind that the TCP and MCP tracks are different, so you'll have to move both.

Everything available is displayed by default, but you can delete or hide unused instrument tracks to save screen space. Again, remember that TCP and MCP tracks will both need removing or hiding.

The Master appears at the top of the TCP, serving as a "conductor" track, with overall tempo and volume envelopes visible.

The TCP tracks are for MIDI recording/editing, the MCP tracks are for audio trim/panning/FX/routing.

You'll need to fiddle with your theme and windowing to get it as clear as possible. I'd suggest you collapse the TCP dialogs down to the point where they only display labels. The MCP tracks are record-disabled, but their M S and R buttons control the relevant MIDI tracks.

The purple tracks at the end of the MCP are containers for the VSTi instances. They are set up to show metering for troubleshooting purposes, but they don't output audio themselves, they just send on to the individual audio tracks. The idea is that once the setup is done, they live offscreen.

(The difference between Solo Strings and String Colour is that the former is for genuine solo passages and the latter is intended to be gently dialled in to enrich the sections - it's a batch track that receives the same MIDI as they do. This does presume a one-library approach to strings. String Colour is also a container, but
brown not purple and does output audio.)

This template is set up for dry and centred samples, so everything else - panning, depth positioning and reverb can be handled in-DAW. All GPO5 samples are received as mono sources, except piano and string sections, which are stereo, but centred.

You might want to send some MIDI setting messages to your VSTis in the preroll bar. As default, the only MIDI pre-roll blips set the mod wheel to middle (GPO uses mod wheel to control volume) and centre the string sections (so you can pan them in-DAW). They also contain MIDI note names (so only in-range notes and keyswitches will display in the MIDI editor).

Spatial positioning is achieved by a depth-ranking approach. Rank one is closest to the audience (strings, piano), rank two is behind them (woods and FHs), rank three is at the back (other brass and percussion).

Rank two and three instruments have progressive modest high EQ cuts on their audio output channels. They also send to the two Preverb busses as well as the Room Reverb (reverb busses are in black).

All individual instruments have an instance of ReaPitch on them, nudged a few cents sharp and flat. Editable according to taste.

All FX used are stock REAPER ones, for maximum compatibility. You can swap in your favourites, of course.

jasonalyon@hotmail.com
27/12/17

Last edited by Jason Lyon; 01-22-2018 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:23 PM   #3
Jason Lyon
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PS As to controlling the volume of entire sections, that could be done by grouping, but I'd be cautious there. Volume work with orchestral samples is best done in MIDI, so the samples take care of the changing character of each instrument as it gets louder/softer.

But if you just want to use things "as is", you can adjust all instruments in a section by shift-selecting all the MCP tracks and moving one of the faders.

Oh, and if you don't have GPO5 don't worry - the template will just say "can't find" half a dozen times and then load up anyway.

Last edited by Jason Lyon; 01-20-2018 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:07 AM   #4
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VCA is what you need. If your child (sub-folder) tracks are sending to reverbs, you can't use the folder to control their volume without upsetting the wet/dry balance, since it won't affect the send volumes. As long as all your reverb sends are post-fader, you can make VCA master tracks for each folder set to adjust all their volumes at once and as well as the send volume.

Btw the typical way of doing reverbs is to mix the wet and dry signals. Your reverbs should be 100% wet and you then only need to adjust the send volume per track to control reverb amount.
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:58 PM   #5
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Hi Jason, thanks so much for posting that finely crafted template! I found it extremely helpful.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:43 PM   #6
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it also can depend on what the VSTi being used is...

we are doing a template for Kontakt that is a bit different than what is ususally done... and we wanted to include the same vol control as you want

I'll say more but only if you are using kontakt other wise it would not apply
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:00 PM   #7
PrimeEagle
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Thanks, Jason! Lots of good info in your post and in your template.

foxAsteria, I've never used VCAs. I will go read about them and see if it makes sense to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
it also can depend on what the VSTi being used is...

we are doing a template for Kontakt that is a bit different than what is ususally done... and we wanted to include the same vol control as you want

I'll say more but only if you are using kontakt other wise it would not apply
I am using Kontakt.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:00 PM   #8
Jason Lyon
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Bill and PrimeEagle:

I've expanded the template a bit and fixed some niggly misgrouping issues. Latest version is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ilm5208fcj...atest.rpp?dl=0
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeEagle View Post
foxAsteria, I've never used VCAs. I will go read about them and see if it makes sense to me
Yeah, if you want a summing bus that controls what you otherwise would use a folder track for, the a VCA is the answer. Here's a post that will give an idea of how it might work.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=56

If you have any questions let me know.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:41 AM   #10
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@Jason Thanks for sharing your template. Very useful
@hopi
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I'll say more but only if you are using kontakt other wise it would not apply
I'm using Kontakt, so would be interested in your setup, as still learning Reaper at the moment
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