Old 10-30-2018, 06:07 PM   #1
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Default Who's confused about the MacBook line now?

And the mini's price inflation. Everything is getting more expensive. I'm not sure even Jobs was as greedy as Cook. At least the ram is user expandable.
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:12 PM   #2
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Mac's have always been about being crazy expensive and having insane margins. Selling $2 ear buds for $25.
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:43 PM   #3
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Mac's have always been about being crazy expensive and having insane margins. Selling $2 ear buds for $25.
The iPhone went from $500 to over $1000 now. This is getting out of hand.
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Old 11-03-2018, 02:53 AM   #4
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I saw the new macbook pro 15 yesterday in the local supermaket, 2700 €, WTF,that's insane ! Apple hate poor people.
Even if I can afford it, i'm not retarded enough to spend so much money on a ... laptop.
But Apple is for creatives people, at least those who think they are.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:48 AM   #5
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As of this quarter, Apple will stop reporting unit sales. Unit sales show declining numbers for Macs, but more profit...
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:36 AM   #6
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more profit from iphones, but mac computer sales dropped by 13 %, and i think it will be worth with the last hardware updates, Apple always find a way to sell their stuff more and more expensive.
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:08 AM   #7
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Apple is trying very hard to turn into something that's even more evil than Microsoft...

Amazon struck a deal with Apple and will be allowed to sell Apple's products (except the homepod speaker). In return, Amazon will boot all sellers of Apple batteries, spare parts, refurbished or new Macs, iphones, ipads, ipods.

Meanwhile, Louis Rossman's latest order of replacement batteries from China has been seized by US customs at the border. Apparently, for Trademark violations. It's still not clear if Apple has been at the source of the complaint, or if US customs is acting independently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygWXBmM0FD0

However, the direction Apple is taking is clear. Milk the customer and charge as much as the customer is willing to spend. That's clearly a true monopoly strategy.

Linux is looking better by the hour...
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:56 PM   #8
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well, they killed ultraportables.
they had a 11.6" machine with Thunderbolt with a nice CPU that worked well with DAWs, now the minimum Thunderbolt-enabled machine is 13".

they are killing bigger and powerful laptops as well.

with a 2015 MBP I don't think I need a newer machine yet.
the worst thing is that in Windows camp I also don't find anything worth to upgrade from 2012-2015 Macs.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:05 PM   #9
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with a 2015 MBP I don't think I need a newer machine yet.
the worst thing is that in Windows camp I also don't find anything worth to upgrade from 2012-2015 Macs.
Tell me...

I'm still using 2009 machines. Looking for a 2012 maybe. But certainly not a 2018, except, maybe the new Mini. We'll see. I'm not in a hurry.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:24 PM   #10
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So how's Linux and Reaper? That might be a good alternative moving forward.
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:19 AM   #11
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Tell me...

I'm still using 2009 machines. Looking for a 2012 maybe. But certainly not a 2018, except, maybe the new Mini. We'll see. I'm not in a hurry.
Go for a Hackintosh Z390 - I9 9900K
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:46 AM   #12
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Go for a Hackintosh Z390 - I9 9900K
That would be one way. I've got a rack case for it ready. It's been ready for years now.

I'm more inclined to go the Raspberry Pi way. Built into my mini rack. The only thing stopping me is the FF400. Firewired. I could exchange it for a Digiface USB and go ADAT from there.

There's no hurry.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:23 AM   #13
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And the mini's price inflation. Everything is getting more expensive. I'm not sure even Jobs was as greedy as Cook. At least the ram is user expandable.
Not all that confusing really. Apple cold stopped making professional computers. They make disposable low quality models now but with the same high end pricing the old pro models had. They're an iThing company now. Doing quite well for them too, so you can kind of see why and what happened.

Get one of their flagship 2011/2012 models used or go DIY with Hackintosh (or jump in head first into Linux).

I don't know what exactly Jobs did while he was there, but they produced the best computers you could buy for the money. One year after he dies... really cheapening cost reductions and feature regression and this disposable business they got into. The older pro models would run for 15 years or more if you took care of them. The new stuff lasts 3 - 5 at best. They're not Apple anymore unfortunately.

On the plus side, you can often snipe those 2011 or 2012 models on Ebay for much less than one of the watered down slower new models.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:24 AM   #14
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Apple wants the Air and iPad to fulfill its non heavy lifting laptop niche. It's great for some of those who don't want their lowest MacBook/Pro but there's always an awful lot of the tail expecting to wag the dog with Apple. We did move to a world that Apple predicted but that doesn't mean I still only want their tools, longtime Apple-only user as I am. I totally get their business model, which can't be argued with. But there's too much ill will that goes along with charging so much for bumping up RAM from the stock amount to the model with the RAM you need (that they're soldered in is a non argument. Everyone is doing that in laptops.)

My last Apple purchase was a refurb 2015 15" in late 2016 and not from Apple. It's still a great tool. But I haven't been in a new current model Mac frame of mind for a decade. I've felt detached from it.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:11 AM   #15
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Tell me...

I'm still using 2009 machines. Looking for a 2012 maybe. But certainly not a 2018, except, maybe the new Mini. We'll see. I'm not in a hurry.
this is an interesting point that most pc users don't get...

Macs are expensive, no doubt.
The pro line isn't the same as some years ago, no doubt.
Apple is thinking more to phones than macs, no doubt.

But there is (a lot of) people that are using 2009 machines, my self i'm daily using a 2011 machine regularly updated. The recording studio next to mine is using a 1999 g4 and do professional recordings with no problem.

Pc are cheaper, but how many 2009 pc are working right now with win10 and Reaper 5.9?
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:28 AM   #16
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It's not the hardware. It's today's software...

I have a Toshiba laptop that dates back to the previous century, running Debian on 512 MB ram. I only keep it because it has built-in firewire and works with my FF400. It works flawlessly with software from that era, on a fairly recent Linux.

With a Mac, that mix is next to impossible. I was lucky that Justin decided to do an unsupported Reaper build for PPC as an experiment. Otherwise, I'd be running an ancient version.

On recent Macs, there's no way to run an older system. And the newest ones are infected with the Cloud.

And that's even worse with Windows 10. No drivers for some hardware.
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:03 PM   #17
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What do y'all think is the most economical hardware path?

The new mini should've came with 16GB when they ramped the price up by $300 F-ing dollars.

I'm on the late-2016 MBP and it's been okay so far with 16 GB.
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:46 AM   #18
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Not confused here because I will never spend 3000 $ on a laptop and feed fat apple shareholders.
Apple stocks is decreasing and mac computers sales has dropped by 13 %, perhaps a sign people start to understand the rip off.
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Old 11-17-2018, 06:20 AM   #19
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What do y'all think is the most economical hardware path?

The new mini should've came with 16GB when they ramped the price up by $300 F-ing dollars.

I'm on the late-2016 MBP and it's been okay so far with 16 GB.
Most economical?
Upgrade to one of the 2011 or 2012 machines. Really truly.
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Old 11-25-2018, 03:51 AM   #20
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with a 2015 MBP I don't think I need a newer machine yet.
the worst thing is that in Windows camp I also don't find anything worth to upgrade from 2012-2015 Macs.
The lack of a big/sensible upgrade from fairly recent i7 processors isn't a PC vs Apple laptop issue. There's obviously more choice on the Windows/Linux laptop side since there are laptops with a) desktop processors and b) AMD processors that aren't options on the Apple laptop side. i9s are available for either.

---------------------

It must be difficult after years of (mostly marketing-induced) rivalry, but considering Win 10 Pro is the sensible option imo. OSes are just tools, none of them are made of magic.
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:30 AM   #21
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There's obviously more choice on the Windows/Linux laptop side
oh, come on, how many of those laptops have Thunderbolt ports that will work good with my audio interfaces? I know no such machine that's smaller than 15". on the other hand I have an 11.6" 2012 MBA that works with my TB devices.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:41 AM   #22
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oh, come on, how many of those laptops have Thunderbolt ports that will work good with my audio interfaces? I know no such machine that's smaller than 15". on the other hand I have an 11.6" 2012 MBA that works with my TB devices.
That's not even the biggest problem for me. Compare Core audio to the Windows audio system and it's an entirely different story. Linux isn't as easy either, but at least you set it once. Windows has a habit of changing settings on it's own. Like with every update...

In stead of TB, you can use USB, or even Dante.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:51 AM   #23
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There's only a very small difference between the size of some new 15.6" laptops and some 13" laptops. Remember this is the diagonal screen size, not the size of the laptop.

eg: the Dell XPS 15 9560 is the same weight as the Apple MBP 13 2012 and only 3.5cm wider.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:53 AM   #24
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Windows has a habit of changing settings on it's own. Like with every update...
I'm on Win 10 Pro and don't recognise this at all.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:07 AM   #25
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I'm on Win 10 Pro and don't recognise this at all.
Which makes you the lucky sample size of one...

The latest one I had to look at, was typical. The audio interface had been connected for many years. The owner decided it was broken and was looking to buy a new one. When I started trouble shooting, nothing seemed to help. Until I opened the Windows mixer. All faders were up. I lowered one fader a bit and it started working again. Took over an hour to get to that point.

Most Windows users would have abandoned and simply bought a new interface...
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:47 AM   #26
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Meh, no software is perfect. I don't pretend that Windows, macOS or Linux are, I'm just saying that Windows updates don't change settings as a rule or it would be very common knowledge (and not tolerated).

Also we know that veteran Apple users know not to touch new OSX/macOS versions with a barge pole until the dust settles because Apple change, break and deprecate at will. Or at least to take Time Machine snapshots because there are no rollbacks, unlike with Windows.

But yeah, Win 10 Pro is the way out of the walled garden without changing much software or relying on companies eventually supporting Linux.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:05 AM   #27
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Win 10 is just another walled garden.

And that's another BIG difference. Both collect user data, but Apple seems to be the only one to really understand the value. They don't sell data to anyone. MS otoh is trying to peddle your and my data to everyone, the shadiest one first.

There's a Lithuanian company that is the world's largest data aggeregator. They are also the worst VPN scammers and operate about a dozen robocall companies. Guess where they get the most part of their data from?

Buying data from MS might be legal, but aggregating it with illegaly collected data from their VPN operations isn't. At least not in the EU. That's probably why almost all of their robocall activity is in the USA.

How do you think Apple is able to raise prices with 50% and still sell? That's because they have measured our response as customers and precisely defined the upper limit. Still, I'd rather pay for that one sided dream of privacy than be milked for anything buy an unscrupulous entity like MS.

And now that Reaper is released for Linux, I'm sorting out all the other tools I need. There's very little left that keeps me on MacOS.
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:35 PM   #28
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It's important not to bunch all of Microsoft's businesses together with Windows, they do run a search engine after all. Apple don't. If Microsft spied on and forcibly sold data from Win 10 Pro users, it would be business suicide.

They will be very aware that there's a line they can't cross with their OS, which also drives sales for their Office + OneDrive products.

Linux is good, I like it, but it's in a permanent state of being *nearly* there re drivers and software. Windows has Linux built in to it now too so it's the best of both worlds.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:49 PM   #29
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the Dell XPS 15 9560 is the same weight as the Apple MBP 13 2012 and only 3.5cm wider.
but a bit heavier than a 2015 one.

yeah, I know there is Dell XPS 15 and my vendor says my TB interfaces will work with it (some people on the internet though say it's not a laptop for audio production though, but never had a chance to try one in person). and that limits the "obviously more choice on the Windows/Linux laptop side" to one model (assuming I need TB).

there is also HP Zbook 15 with qualified TB, but it's almost a 3kg beast. I used to have big heavy laptops before and I'm glad I'm done with that.

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Old 11-27-2018, 04:19 AM   #30
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It's important not to bunch all of Microsoft's businesses together with Windows, they do run a search engine after all. Apple don't. If Microsft spied on and forcibly sold data from Win 10 Pro users, it would be business suicide.
But that's exactly what they are doing. If you want to shut off the data collection, you need to change some settings. And that's not what I see most users of W10 Pro doing. The corporate world is doing that, mostly. But these still need to tune their firewalls for stuff like Skype.

Besides, nothing is below MS. Excel, fi, has a long standing bug in the concatenate function. It doesn't work for a range of cells. You need to specify each and every cell separately. Been like that for many years. Lo and behold, MS has fixed that bug. Sort of. There's a new function called concat. And that works as it should. But it's only available to paying subscribers...

Quote:
They will be very aware that there's a line they can't cross with their OS, which also drives sales for their Office + OneDrive products.
Is OneDrive making any money these days? I don't follow that market at all. Too many free offers. And DropBox is still the most serious one of them all. Recently, they did a security test on their eco system. Yielded 3 zero day exploits on Mojave/HS/Sierra...

Quote:
Linux is good, I like it, but it's in a permanent state of being *nearly* there re drivers and software. Windows has Linux built in to it now too so it's the best of both worlds.
I agree. But that's where MacOS is going too. And iOS.
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:42 PM   #31
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@Vasily : most Pro Audio laptops are 15" or 17", but here's an example of a 13" one...

https://www.adkproaudio.com/adk-mtbcl-133-laptop



@cyrano : yeah, I don't really have a problem with OS makers trying to make money - as long as there are off switches. The Ubuntu thing was a tragedy with people calling having the blindingly obvious (and stoppable) affiliate search option "spying". The alternative is behemoths giving away OSes as part of other services (or Linux fragmentation).

Re OneDrive, I don't know how well it does by itself, but it's bundled with Office 365 which is a good chunk of MS income. The family package gets you 5TB of storage with Office licenses for 5 people (1TB each), for around the same price as iCloud's storage only 2TB option.
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