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Old 11-16-2018, 11:44 AM   #2121
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I like the double click idea also....and better if we could also include the modifiers.

Use cases, in addition to those mentioned regarding exclusive solo/mute are up there. How about automation modes, double click to change mode for all tracks, single click for 1 track. This frees up the shift modifier and frees up a hand (only 2 of those). In fact I would prefer the double tap to the shift modifier for things like that (record mode as another example). Plus adding the holdButton function, there's a lot of one-handed functionality there.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:41 PM   #2122
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Hi folks!

I just discovered this thread and I'm really interested in this amazing work.

I was planning to buy a digital mixer in order to stop using the mouse and keyboard but was quite disappointed that it could not control the VSTs (that would still require the damn mouse).

But this was before finding this topic !
I'm now considering buying a Behringer X-Touch (which seems to be a copy of the Mackie Control) and 3 X-Touch extenders for a total of 32 faders.

I have read (most of) the 50 pages but could find a definitive answer to a couple of questions.

Here is what I understand from the 50 pages, please correct me if I'm wrong:
1 - all 4 units would be supported and I could arrange them in any order I like (master on right hand side, middle, etc.)
2 - transport functions, plus other basic buttons (loop, ...) would work
3 - faders and pan pots would work both ways (Behringer -> Reaper and vice versa)
4 - there is a means to use the faders to control the sends
5 - the faders and pan pots could be used to control any parameter of the FXs of the selected track

I think that if all this is true, then it's a deal for me !

Cheers !
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:09 PM   #2123
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Does the Behringer "X-Topuch USB" and "extenders" support more than 7 bit fader resolution ?

I just checked my X-Touch Compact in Mackie mode, and it does not .

-Michael
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:27 AM   #2124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
Hi folks!

I just discovered this thread and I'm really interested in this amazing work.

I was planning to buy a digital mixer in order to stop using the mouse and keyboard but was quite disappointed that it could not control the VSTs (that would still require the damn mouse).

But this was before finding this topic !
I'm now considering buying a Behringer X-Touch (which seems to be a copy of the Mackie Control) and 3 X-Touch extenders for a total of 32 faders.

I have read (most of) the 50 pages but could find a definitive answer to a couple of questions.

Here is what I understand from the 50 pages, please correct me if I'm wrong:
1 - all 4 units would be supported and I could arrange them in any order I like (master on right hand side, middle, etc.)
2 - transport functions, plus other basic buttons (loop, ...) would work
3 - faders and pan pots would work both ways (Behringer -> Reaper and vice versa)
4 - there is a means to use the faders to control the sends
5 - the faders and pan pots could be used to control any parameter of the FXs of the selected track

I think that if all this is true, then it's a deal for me !

Cheers !
Yes to all

Add to that the fact you can customize everything after you install a basic setup.

As far as your proposed rig, I might think of reducing the extender count -- adding a channel strip might be better bang for the buck, like the Console 1 shown in this ancient demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ravhFzHcYKI
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:33 AM   #2125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Does the Behringer "X-Topuch USB" and "extenders" support more than 7 bit fader resolution ?

I just checked my X-Touch Compact in Mackie mode, and it does not .

-Michael
Pretty sure the X-Touch is 14 bit, as is the X-Touch One, the Compact is a weird 7 bit bastardization of the Mackie protocol where, as you have seen, one byte is always 0.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:48 PM   #2126
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I am pretty sure that the X-Touches use the same fader hardware, so the "Compact" firmware developers obviously are really inappropriate.

(This also can be seen by the fact that it does not send a message when swapping the layer in native mode . )

-Michael
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:13 AM   #2127
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yes to all

Add to that the fact you can customize everything after you install a basic setup.

As far as your proposed rig, I might think of reducing the extender count -- adding a channel strip might be better bang for the buck, like the Console 1 shown in this ancient demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ravhFzHcYKI
Thank you very very much !

I think I am about to forget the mixer and start buying the controllers.
As for the Console 1, I'm not really sure it suits my needs. I don't know the beast and I am currently watching videos and reviews, but it seems it only allows to control the softube plugins. Too bad for my Waves SSL 4000 and 1073, reverbs, etc ...

That's something I need to investigate. Anyway, I can start with the Behringer only and add the console 1 if it proves to be the perfect piece of equipment I need later.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:16 AM   #2128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Does the Behringer "X-Topuch USB" and "extenders" support more than 7 bit fader resolution ?

I just checked my X-Touch Compact in Mackie mode, and it does not .

-Michael
As a matter of fact, that's some information I cannot find !
Neither the Behringer website, nor the retailers pages give that information.

The only thing I am sure of, reading some manual for the Xtouch Compact, is that it is indeed a 7 bit fader.
But the manual for the "big" Xtouch does not provide this information.
I currently have an old Presonus Faderport, which is 10 bit, and so I cannot imagine what downgrade would be a possible 7 bit fader.

Is it really a pain in the neck ?
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:41 AM   #2129
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Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
I think I am about to forget the mixer and start buying the controllers.
As for the Console 1, I'm not really sure it suits my needs. I don't know the beast and I am currently watching videos and reviews, but it seems it only allows to control the softube plugins. Too bad for my Waves SSL 4000 and 1073, reverbs, etc ...
One of Geoff's stated aims for this project is that controllers like the C1 will be able to mapped to other plugins.
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:13 AM   #2130
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Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
Thank you very very much !

I think I am about to forget the mixer and start buying the controllers.
As for the Console 1, I'm not really sure it suits my needs. I don't know the beast and I am currently watching videos and reviews, but it seems it only allows to control the softube plugins. Too bad for my Waves SSL 4000 and 1073, reverbs, etc ...

That's something I need to investigate. Anyway, I can start with the Behringer only and add the console 1 if it proves to be the perfect piece of equipment I need later.
You can control some of the UAD stuff as well as the Softube plugins with the stock software.

However, CSI allows you to map any plugins that show up in Reaper to the Console 1 -- well to be truthful, I haven't tried ALL of them
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:16 AM   #2131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
As a matter of fact, that's some information I cannot find !
Neither the Behringer website, nor the retailers pages give that information.

The only thing I am sure of, reading some manual for the Xtouch Compact, is that it is indeed a 7 bit fader.
But the manual for the "big" Xtouch does not provide this information.
I currently have an old Presonus Faderport, which is 10 bit, and so I cannot imagine what downgrade would be a possible 7 bit fader.

Is it really a pain in the neck ?
Most of the MCU breed of surfaces use 10 bit faders with 14 bit protocol, the X Touch likely does that too.
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:28 AM   #2132
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Sorry to nag about this, but would it be possible to get a simplified version of MapFocussedFX out the door? Just a single page, no drill down etc?
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:31 AM   #2133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
As a matter of fact, that's some information I cannot find !
Neither the Behringer website, nor the retailers pages give that information.
Of course not .
I got it by showing the Midi messages it sends by the ReaControlMidi log.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
The only thing I am sure of, reading some manual for the Xtouch Compact, is that it is indeed a 7 bit fader.
Of course the manual does not say anything about the hardware, but only about the interface presented to the outside world. The poor manual writers needed to take what the firmware developers provided.

-Michael
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:36 AM   #2134
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
the X Touch likely does that too.
Can anybody test and verify this ?
But the starting point of this discussion was the X32. Can anybody test and verify how many bits it sends on OSC ?

-Michael
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:51 AM   #2135
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Sorry to nag about this, but would it be possible to get a simplified version of MapFocussedFX out the door? Just a single page, no drill down etc?
Currently working on this and Hold Press, should have something within a week.
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:52 AM   #2136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Can anybody test and verify this ?
But the starting point of this discussion was the X32. Can anybody test and verify how many bits it sends on OSC ?

-Michael
OSC sends strings generally so you don't think bits so much in OSC.
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:14 AM   #2137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Currently working on this and Hold Press, should have something within a week.
That's great news Geoff! Can't wait Terrific workflow enhancement.

(is that a 1 or 2 second HoldPress or maybe even ALT SHIFT HoldPress?)
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:33 AM   #2138
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
That's great news Geoff! Can't wait Terrific workflow enhancement.

(is that a 1 or 2 second HoldPress or maybe even ALT SHIFT HoldPress?)
Yeah, I mistyped earlier, you can use any of the combinations you could use before, Hold+Shift, Hold+Control, Hold+Shift+Alt+Control, Hold+Shift+Alt, etc., etc.
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:55 PM   #2139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
OSC sends strings generally so you don't think bits so much in OSC.
Not really. Usually, OSC sends binary coded floating point values between 0.0000 and 1.0000. (Midi sends binary coded integer values either between 0 and 127 or between 0 and 16383).

So let me rephrase: can anybody test and verify if the X-Touch USB via OSC for the faders sends a resolution (considerably) better than 1/128 i.e. steps lower than 0.0078125.

-Michael
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Old 11-18-2018, 04:51 PM   #2140
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Not really. Usually, OSC sends binary coded floating point values between 0.0000 and 1.0000. (Midi sends binary coded integer values either between 0 and 127 or between 0 and 16383).

So let me rephrase: can anybody test and verify if the X-Touch USB via OSC for the faders sends a resolution (considerably) better than 1/128 i.e. steps lower than 0.0078125.

-Michael
Ah, gotcha, misinterpreted your question.

That's probably a great addition to this project, somewhat like the lists folks compile of actual interface latencies, we should compile a list of actual resolutions for real-world OSC components.
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:00 AM   #2141
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When considering OSC, it might be a good idea to do a preliminary implementation using OSCIIBot to help PipelineAudio and others..

Someone could rather easily do an OSCIIBot script translating from (X32-) OSC to Midi (Mackie Protocol, or whatever CSI likes to see) (including high resolution handling). This can be made working in both directions to provide the appropriate feedback. (I did something like this accessing an an XR18 Rack Mixer via bidirectional OSC.)

-Michael
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:03 AM   #2142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
That's probably a great addition to this project, somewhat like the lists folks compile of actual interface latencies, we should compile a list of actual resolutions for real-world OSC components.
Now that this subforum is decently renamed to "Control Surfaces" we even can have an additional message thread for this instead of continuing on page 55 of this one. .
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:55 AM   #2143
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New build is up: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/33037/CSI%20pre%20alpha.zip

Use the keyword Hold for a delayed action:

Hold+Solo
Hold+Shift+SomeButton
...


Just like you can use this syntax:

TrackOnSelection MapTrackAndFXToWidgets

you can now do the same for last focused FX:

TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack


Just a heads up on a breaking change in a future version -- the new OSC template files will have an .ost extension, the Midi template files will be renamed from .rst to .mst (Midi surface template).
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:46 AM   #2144
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Any comments regarding OSCIIBot ?

I might be able to ro provide some support regarding that issue ...

-Michael
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Old 11-22-2018, 06:28 PM   #2145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack

This works like a charm Many, many thanks Geoff!

C4.axt looks like this:

Code:
TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack

SlotUp Reaper _S&M_WNONLY1
SlotDown Reaper _S&M_WNONLY2
TrackL Reaper _6e6967db562a45f3b499d3b9daaefd60
TrackR Reaper _172419af88f947d1b7205e75478aa4b7
SlotUp/Down is SWS/S&M: Float previous/next FX (and close others) for selected tracks

TrackL/R is a custom action comprising:

SWS/S&M: Close all floating FX windows + Track: Go to next track

This closes the floating fx windows opened by SlotUp/SlotDown, when you use the C4 TrackL/R buttons to move to a new track. Stops too many FX windows staying open and making a mess.

Still exploring the possibilities- considering mapping MapFXToWidgets to a C4 button to see if I can get the best of both worlds....
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:58 PM   #2146
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Quote:
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Now that this subforum is decently renamed to "Control Surfaces" we even can have an additional message thread for this instead of continuing on page 55 of this one. .
Knock your socks off, Michael! Its the control surfaces etc forum section, not Geoff`s exclusive playground, even though I will probably spend 90% of my time IN it reading Geoff`s thread hoping for a first beta!
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:57 PM   #2147
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I suggested this, because that dedicated question of Geoff's was not about his Reaper-extension project, but perfectly general about properties of available Control Surface devices.

There of course is other software that might read OSC - or Midi - messages from Control Surfaces devices and the achievable resolution is of interest for the users of any such systems.

This said, IMHO for clarity Geoff should rename "his" thread to something dedicatedly stating his project instead of suggesting to be about control surface integration in general.

-Michael
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Old 11-23-2018, 04:24 AM   #2148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
This said, IMHO for clarity Geoff should rename "his" thread to something dedicatedly stating his project instead of suggesting to be about control surface integration in general.

-Michael
Agreed, and done
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Old 11-23-2018, 10:35 AM   #2149
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Default Tutorial please.

Hi, is there a tutorial on how to work with your script, i'm a little lost. I have a faderport 8, but don't know how to use your script, I'm kind of a noobs.
tks
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Old 11-23-2018, 01:33 PM   #2150
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Default Help please

Hi again, ok, I also have a faderport single fader, how do I proceed to map this device myself with your plugin. I don't know how to start.
Tks
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Old 11-23-2018, 04:18 PM   #2151
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Hi, is there a tutorial on how to work with your script, i'm a little lost. I have a faderport 8, but don't know how to use your script, I'm kind of a noobs.
tks
Seby
Have you downloaded the pre alpha software from the link below ?

There is a somewhat out-of-date readme -- this is pre alpha, after all

If you have done all that ask away, we'll get you going.

But first is there a reason you want to use this over the stock Reaper plugin, or Klinke's, etc. ?
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Old 11-24-2018, 12:25 PM   #2152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Have you downloaded the pre alpha software from the link below ?

There is a somewhat out-of-date readme -- this is pre alpha, after all

If you have done all that ask away, we'll get you going.

But first is there a reason you want to use this over the stock Reaper plugin, or Klinke's, etc. ?
Hi, I have downloaded everything and installed it. CAn't make it work though lol.
Well I will have a faderport 8 soon. So I want a all in one controller. So to be able to control let say 8 tracks at a time normally. When I press the send button, I want to be able to control all the sends of a selected track. Then why not control first effect of a selected track, then the second effect, etc..
Something like that. And maybe also to control CC midi like this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO6eQt6L1KI&t=339s


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Old 11-24-2018, 03:33 PM   #2153
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Default Bug in the latest version

A bug in the latest version- master fader not visible on surface.

Master fader initially visible in a new session with no tracks, but disappears (from surface) as soon as other tracks are created. Same on Mac and Windows.

Rolling back to a previous version (plugin date 10-9-2018) cures the issue.
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Old 11-25-2018, 02:29 AM   #2154
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Hi, I have downloaded everything and installed it. CAn't make it work though lol.
Well I will have a faderport 8 soon. So I want a all in one controller. So to be able to control let say 8 tracks at a time normally. When I press the send button, I want to be able to control all the sends of a selected track. Then why not control first effect of a selected track, then the second effect, etc..
Something like that. And maybe also to control CC midi like this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO6eQt6L1KI&t=339s


Seby
This controller isn't good enough with the Faderport 8 yet , unfortunately. It works but I have found it buggy and doesn't have enough features at the moment. Without the display and metering working it's not really feasible to use it with large projects. The MCU controller in Reaper works pretty ok, albeit missing some features. Klinke works but is also not optimal with the Faderport 8...a lot of strange mappings and inconsistencies.

If I had the time I would customise Klinke to work with the Faderport 8 but it takes a lot of effort to get it compiling and working with the external libraries.
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Old 11-25-2018, 03:26 AM   #2155
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X32 reaper is WAY tricky for me, hoping this CSI project is doable!
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:08 AM   #2156
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Originally Posted by inertia View Post
This controller isn't good enough with the Faderport 8 yet , unfortunately. It works but I have found it buggy and doesn't have enough features at the moment. Without the display and metering working it's not really feasible to use it with large projects. The MCU controller in Reaper works pretty ok, albeit missing some features. Klinke works but is also not optimal with the Faderport 8...a lot of strange mappings and inconsistencies.

If I had the time I would customise Klinke to work with the Faderport 8 but it takes a lot of effort to get it compiling and working with the external libraries.
Ok, but iit is not the point of CSI script? To make it all possible the way we wanr it to be? On my side, I do have the time, but I need help or the method to start programming it somehow. I'm able to learn and willing too.
tks
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:40 AM   #2157
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
X32 reaper is WAY tricky for me, hoping this CSI project is doable!
I doubt that right now the CSI Project will work satisfyingly with the X32, as the X32 via Midi seemingly sends 7 bit fader resolution (while a Mackie sends 10 bit or similar). And I don't know, when the CSI project will get OSC input (nor do we have a definite confirmation that the X32 sends more than 7 bit resolution via OSC). That is why I suggested to do a X32-ISC <-> Mackie-Midi converter using the OSCIIBot software.

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Old 11-26-2018, 03:26 AM   #2158
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
A bug in the latest version- master fader not visible on surface.

Master fader initially visible in a new session with no tracks, but disappears (from surface) as soon as other tracks are created. Same on Mac and Windows.

Rolling back to a previous version (plugin date 10-9-2018) cures the issue.
Thanks, will look at it this week.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:36 AM   #2159
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Ok, but iit is not the point of CSI script? To make it all possible the way we wanr it to be? On my side, I do have the time, but I need help or the method to start programming it somehow. I'm able to learn and willing too.
tks
Seby
Yes, of course. I got the impression you wanted something that was working now though. Not later.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:50 AM   #2160
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Hi Geoff, is it ok to ask for jog wheel integration at this time?
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