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View Poll Results: How useful are subprojects to you and would you like these FRs added pretty soon?
Yes, most of the stuff here would be useful to me and I'd like to see a lot of it added pretty soon. 66 74.16%
Yes, some (or all) of the stuff but it can wait for other features first 14 15.73%
No, sub projects are not useful to me at all and shouldn't be worked on as a priority 9 10.11%
None of the above, left a post explaining why.. 0 0%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-04-2016, 10:33 AM   #1
musicbynumbers
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Default FRs for Subprojects. (aka "reaproxys") Please post here if you have anything to add!

As awesome as everything now is with subprojects/reaproxys. I wanted to post below the FRs that I and others have asked for during the last few months that we still feel would be worth putting in reaper at some point.

Readers of this thread.. Please post below with any additional feature requests or comments and I'll try and update this first post to reflect them.

- Monitoring edited subprojects via the master project's item output.
it's going to get asked to be done by every musician out there and it would complete the ability to link subprojects to the master project.
It really would be so damn useful/powerful (plus it's keeping me up at night worrying that it's not doable and ruins my utopian reaper dreams!)

Support for using the "save as" function
When inside a subproject it would be great if we can either save as or save a new copy and then the master project be updated to now use the new saved version OR to be asked if we want to update the master project.

- New action to "move tracks to subproject (obey time selection)"
See thw following post for an explanation of the below image.. http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=80


This would complete what we can achieve with subproject creation. Without this, "subproject foldering" will always include everything on the tracks which is cool (as it now doesn't always start at bar 1) but it's still missing a massive trick of being able to contain only parts of those tracks into a subproject without affecting the overall items inside the folder tracks but outside the time selection. I think the way proposed in the post above could work


DONE - Project settings-Option to transfer all master project settings to newly created subprojects
I think this one is probably on it's way for sure as you've mentioned it but thought I'd put it in here so it's complete. Especially as I just tested creating one and got "jarred" when I ended up with not only a time based ruler but also a grid based on frames for my drums

DONE (via action) - Tick box in the save window used when creating a subproject for "create sub directory for project".
Would make self containing subprojects for potential drag and dropping into other projects a little bit easier to manage.

- Option for loop points that are set/changed inside of a subproject to also be set/mirrored in the main master project at the same time (as an ongoing process, not just once).
This would make working with synced projects a little bit faster and also stop them going out of sync when the master does it own thing compared to the loop points set in the subproject. A trickier one would be the other way around where by the master loop points define the subproject ones. By this I mean the ability for a subproject that starts halfway into the loop points in the master project to not playback until that same point in the master, even, if internally it would have to "wait" until the play cursor got to that point.

DONE (as action) - tick box in normal save as window for "create preview/reaproxy file"
This would be so frigging cool! I would love it if the last version of every project I saved I could create a reaproxy preview file that media explorer could read and I could also drag these projects in faster too. We can do this now with the media explorer option but it's slow because it has to load the project. (but, a right click option when clicking on a project in the media explorer would also be very cool!)

- Let any relevant setting in the render window be applicable to subproject renders. This ones for Ed mostly just the bit depth to be honest but maybe there's other things that would be useful?

- Ability for start (and maybe the end) markers to be able to also not slip contents in master project item but to keep contents locked and instead move the item edges.
Not sure the best way to do it. Probably simply by adjusting the marker name to something like "=START_EDGE" so that the edge is moved and not the contents. Massively useful. (again not my request but I like it).

- Option to define "take areas" using markers within a subproject to auto create takes in the subproject item.
Probably a tricky one but very useful sound design where by we can place variations in different places on the timeline but still mix them all at once with the same tracks. Maybe they would need to be something like "=START_TAKE1" and "=END_TAKE1" etc. (also takes not created this way in the item would have to adjust themselves around this).

- importing/copying subprojects. Can reaper also just copy over the PROX file instead of opening the project (if the project has not been modified)?
I have a feeling there's a reason for doing this but it would be great if it didn't need to)

Tab menu option to playback master project's video track whilst editing the subproject.
This would override any video tracks in the subproject too. This would be a very useful feature!

- Preference option (or new action) to have the action "move tracks to a new subproject" place the items at bar 1 inside the subproject, not at the original position.
Currently, this action now places the items at the same place they were in the master project. This is useful but could cause issues on long projects. You can use the "remove time" action to get rid of this space but an action would be better.

DONE - Preference option to keep imported subprojects open rather than closing them straight after rendering.
Had that today. Dragged in a massive orchestra project (with "copy imported media items" set to off) and after it had rendered it, reaper closed it automatically which meant I had to double click it again to load it up to actually edit it
Maybe it could even just have a tickbox in the import window for "keep open after rendering"?

- End marker could be used for end of project as well as render (if no items were detected after the end marker that is).
This would be useful for monitoring projects of any kind, not just subprojects as you could define where the reverb ends for that project ,as at the moment, unless you set a loop region, reaper will stop at the last item.

- if you use the subproject "glue" action on midi items, reaper should copy the track FX into the subproject too.
This way we can also "freeze" midi tracks too.
This can be done by the action to move the track into a subproject right now but it would be great if midi items could use this as an item.

- Option for overall rate changes (not stretch markers) on the subproject to be reflected when editing inside the subproject using the play rate slider (in either mode).

By this I mean that variable rate changes done to the subprojects item's stretch markers (by turning off the "preserve rate" option) could be reflected and translated to the playrate control within the subproject. Only temporarily of course and not for rendering use, just for monitoring when inside the subproject how it would sound in the master project.

Not an important one in the least but would be pretty cool!

DONE - Option to see master project markers/regions reflected in subprojects
These markers/regions could be shown as semi transparent or maybe a grey colour to distinguish them and they probably wouldn't be editable, just ghosted on to the subproject for reference.

DONE - Master project tempo map/time signature reflected/copied into subproject as a project setting option
This would mean that tempo changes in the master are also "ghosted" into the subproject at the same time position and can be dynamically updated upon moving the subproject item around.

PARTIALLY DONE (MARKERS NOW COPY BUT NOT OPTIONAL- project setting to copy markers and regions into newly created subprojects
As a per project option as there are times its not useful too.

- subproject in a dockable window that can sync to the master timeline
Just like the midi editor can. I would use this to have the subprojects docked below the arrange and have both scroll and zoom linked up so editing in context is easier.

DONE (with =END and =START markers)- newly created empty subprojects should not render anything open being created
It's not a major issue but if you're creating say a few minute long empty subproject to place items in, having to render an empty item of that length seems unnecessary.

- setting subproject's render setting to a video format should allow subproject to render as a video file
This seems like a good way to define a subproject as needing to also render the video out too.

- Access to master project's bay from subproject bay's dropdown list.
Have the master project bay also appear in the dropdown list so it can be easily accessed when in the subproject.

DONE - Action to update current project's proxy file at any time.
This could also allow the user to correct the times where the project has to re-render but hasn't gave virtual instruments time to load up or simply if you want to create a subproject file to use elsewhere whilst the project is already loaded.

warning when using save as window with "Copy audio" ticked and subprojects in project.
a warning when you've accidentally still got "Copy audio" ticked and you do a save as with a project that contains subprojects as reaper will then open each subproject and save them again. Which is useful for some things but takes ages and is mostly not intended behaviour.

Mono subprojects via master mono button instead of the minimum stereo we have now, when the MONO button on the master track of the sub project is checked.
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:30 AM   #2
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Moderators.. Could you change the main title so it says "anything" and not "any think" silly auto correct! thanks
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Old 01-04-2016, 11:56 AM   #3
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I just really want the ability to simply play/sync subprojects along WITH the master - not have to render. Rendering should be an option or something.
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
I just really want the ability to simply play/sync subprojects along WITH the master - not have to render. Rendering should be an option or something.
I might be misunderstanding what you mean but we do have the option to have any single subproject you are inside of and editing also make the master project playback.

This works without having to render (in real time) and only renders when you then go back to the master.

What would be the use for having the subprojects "live" if you are in the master project?

I'm interested in understanding the reason. So I can add it to the FR list

Also, I think you can sync all open tabs up anyway if you have the right set of tab menu options on. Might be wrong though..
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:09 AM   #5
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I'd find it useful if the master project's regions and markers would be reflected in its subs.

Probably related to playing back the audio through the master's track mixer, but it would also be very useful to be able to solo the sub (respecting the solo in front setting) while in the sub's tab. At the moment I have to switch to the master and mute the main output.
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
I'd find it useful if the master project's regions and markers would be reflected in its subs.
That would be useful for sure. Could be difficult to do continuously since you might change the subproject start point or move it in the master project. As "ghost markers" that are slightly translucent they would be useful as an option. Added it to the list at the top!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
Probably related to playing back the audio through the master's track mixer, but it would also be very useful to be able to solo the sub (respecting the solo in front setting) while in the sub's tab. At the moment I have to switch to the master and mute the main output.
This would hopefully be done at the same time the top FR was done (called "Monitoring edited subprojects via the master project's item output.")

If that got put in, it might automatically work better.

For now though I think you could set up a toggle toolbar button to switch on and off the tab menu option (at the top of the screen) as that will stop the master playing when you don't need it.
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
I just really want the ability to simply play/sync subprojects along WITH the master - not have to render. Rendering should be an option or something.
Yep !!!

I think it's rather obvious that pre-rendering (which of course does make sense in many instances) should be just opional. With this using subprojects simply as a means for structuring and sharing parts of a project with other main projects. (In fact I did not expect that subprojects would be pre-rendered at all)

On top of this it would be perfectly sensible to allow for sub-projects to be rendered in realtime remotely on another PC using a similar protocol as Reamote, but allowing the configuration of VSTs (also) on the slave, as with many VSTs, remote-configuration of VSTs with ReaMote is not possible .

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Old 01-19-2016, 08:45 AM   #8
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Request - Subprojects use same Media bay as parent project whence they came.
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
Request - Subprojects use same Media bay as parent project whence they came.
As an option it might be good to have the master project bay also in the dropdown list so it can be easily accessed.

Will put it in the list!
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Old 01-19-2016, 12:04 PM   #10
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When cleaning a project directory <that is not the default directory>, it would be nice to consider the other projects within that same folder.

I've had to relocate samples that I've used b/c I made the mistake of cleaning a project directory which had a subproject which used samples which were in the directory.

===============================

Also, it would be cool to see the midi items from other/open projects too, while in the midi editor (Optional?). But that may be far fetched.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:56 AM   #11
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Request - Option to play Video from parent when playing subproject.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiquaver View Post
Request - Option to play Video from parent when playing subproject.
Added already a much needed option though!
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Old 10-18-2022, 01:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiquaver View Post
Request - Option to play Video from parent when playing subproject.
+1 to this! Would be incredibly useful for film composition.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
Request - Subprojects use same Media bay as parent project whence they came.
I think I've put that request in but will check.

I was thinking that it should be that subprojects can access the project bay for the master (from the dropdown) but it definitely shouldn't use the same bay overall as the subproject can be a full separate project and also you might not want it too.

Having easy access to the master's project bay is probably the best way overall?
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Old 02-04-2016, 12:53 AM   #15
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I have a huge old project crashing on load and wanted to break it into subprojects to troubleshoot and continue mixing, and I was quite happy that if I open a project in offline mode and move tracks to a subproject, when the subproject is reopened it restores the plugins properly (I was afraid they'd all be saved offline like offline mode used to work)...


Also it seems to me there is a pretty good consensus around having more control over when subprojects render, and not having them immediately render when moving tracks to a subproject. I'd love to see that first.

Another specific request is for the "filename format for recorded files" setting to be ignored when moving tracks to a subproject. Ideally I think it should default to $project$track only.

But as we know, there's no guarantee of any subproject tweaks in the near future so as a workaround before moving tracks to a subproject and having the entire timeline rendered, I've started cropping my main project to a time selection (making it start at 0:00), before moving the tracks. Then recreating the leading space afterwards. It doesn't help if there are regions and items you want to retain there, but it's always possible to open a previous project revision.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:30 PM   #16
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Default Adding to the markers/regions request

As of right now, if you make a subproject and then change a region or marker or anything in the master, it doesn't carry over to the subproject.

I have been utilizing subprojects while writing, so often my regions/markers change as I am working towards the finish line on a project. I would love to see the the regions change on the subproject to mirror the master after a change.

Just as an aside... I was recently able to track a vocal with basically no latency on a huge project because of subprojects. All I did was render the stereo buss and made a subproject with the vocals I wanted to track and then copied the stereo buss render over. Boom! Full practically finished mix tracking with no latency. I absolutely love this feature and would love to see the regions mirror the master project.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:02 AM   #17
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I came up with a custom script to handle subprojects auto-sync with the master project. This scripts basically copies all the markers / regions & tempo markers from the master project and populates those markers in the subprojects, overriding the existing ones.
The master project has to be the top left project in the project tabs (which is often the case). As far as I know there is nothing in the reascript API that can give us the info if a project is a subproject or not, so I came up with this solution, if someone has a better idea, he is more than welcome.
You can trigger this when you want, for me I just put it in the SWS startup project actions, so when i open a subproject, it automatically gets the markers & tempo markers from the master project.

Hope it will be useful untill this is implemented properly into reaper.
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:31 AM   #18
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I came up with a custom script to handle subprojects auto-sync with the master project. This scripts basically copies all the markers / regions & tempo markers from the master project and populates those markers in the subprojects, overriding the existing ones.
The master project has to be the top left project in the project tabs (which is often the case). As far as I know there is nothing in the reascript API that can give us the info if a project is a subproject or not, so I came up with this solution, if someone has a better idea, he is more than welcome.
You can trigger this when you want, for me I just put it in the SWS startup project actions, so when i open a subproject, it automatically gets the markers & tempo markers from the master project.

Hope it will be useful untill this is implemented properly into reaper.
I'm not sure who you are, but I am fairly sure I am developing feelings for you.

In jest, of course

I will be trying this out later. Sincerely, thank you very much.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:12 AM   #19
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Great idea and thanks for sharing Smoy
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Old 04-15-2020, 04:46 PM   #20
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Whatever related to improving Subproject features, I'm all in!

But before everything I just wish that they will solve this issue:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=27

must have option: "do not re-render / re-open subprojects when 'saving as+copy all media into project directory'"
TOP Priority for me since it took me more than 5 minutes to save a busy project with subprojects in it:X
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:25 PM   #21
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I'm just here to add my voice to the desire to have a 'save as' function when using subprojects, it would really help with version control and recalls.
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Old 07-02-2020, 01:26 PM   #22
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I'm just here to add my voice to the desire to have a 'save as' function when using subprojects, it would really help with version control and recalls.
+1 (am I allowed to do more than +1?) -- would love more flexibility with features like save as, but even more than this, I'd love a subproject management control panel that would show all the subprojects in a project, with the ability to manage them, identify them in the project, zoom to them, open them in a new tab from the control panel, close, render, rename them, move/consolidate their source files (perhaps into subfolders too), maybe even archive and version them (am I getting too greedy?), etc... all inside a control panel just for subprojects... anything to maximize working with, optimize the organization of, and manage subprojects in general.

I use subprojects in EVERY serious project now (and even the non-serious projects!), sometimes dozens and dozens of them, growing with every big projects I do, sliced and diced all over, and also using sub-subprojects, and a handful of sub-sub-subprojects (that's 3X deep!) and I've even tried sub-sub-sub-subprojects (4X deep!) too! They are the greatest thing since sliced bread in DAWs! A genius feature. Critical to sound design and post production projects and any music project that has lots and lots of production! So any extra love given to subprojects by the Reaper team would be deeply appreciated.

P.S. And actually, since I use nested subprojects, it would be super cool if the subproject control panel could also identify which subprojects have nested subprojects so I could even see a tree, collapse/expand the hierarchy of subprojects, and/or make sure I can manage the dependencies of subprojects I build up as the project becomes more complex...

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Old 07-02-2020, 08:59 AM   #23
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How on earth do you move a Subproject's contents back to the main project? We have freeze and unfreeze, but 'Expand from subproject' seems to have eluded me.
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Old 07-02-2020, 03:26 PM   #24
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How on earth do you move a Subproject's contents back to the main project? We have freeze and unfreeze, but 'Expand from subproject' seems to have eluded me.
Hi Dax,

I'm still discovering new ways of working with subprojects, but out of curiosity, why do you want to do this? As a huge fan of subprojects (but still discovering new approaches), I have come to the conclusion that going with subprojects is basically a one-way ticket and totally worth the trip. Sure, you can manually copy and paste items from one project/tab back to your main project and sort of manually rebuild what's in a subproject back into its parent project, but as far as I can tell from my experience so far, there is not really a feasible, reliable, simple, consistent, automated way to do this, especially with complex subprojects. It might make a good feature request though for simple subprojects, although I doubt it would ever cover all the possibilities of what subprojects can really do.

Consider this: A subproject can be as complex as you can possibly imagine, in fact far more complex than its parent project if you want it to be, including with more nested subprojects and all their infinite complexity, including complex routing, sends/returns, takes, take effects, take envelopes, timebase, automation items, project-level settings (including render, time-stretch/compress, etc., settings), not to mention tempo envelopes!!!, video clips, ARA plugins, etc., etc., etc., that I cannot conceive of how you could possibly PERFECTLY expand a subproject's content back into its parent project without blowing up something important. Just think of the implications of tempo maps/envelopes nested within tempo envelopes, which is what is possible with nested subprojects... how are the developers supposed to handle that? It's just too much stuff in theory, way too complex, and I've got some super complex subprojects that are complete cues within cues of feature length films. I wouldn't even dare trust it TBH. It's too complex with too many conflicts what would happen. So in other words, in my view, subprojects are one way tickets.

However, if you are just using subprojects as simple containers, like repositories for small groups of items that all run with basically the same settings and tempo, etc. of the parent project, then your best bet IMO is copying the subproject file in your OS as a new file, then opening it in a new tab as a separate project (thereby retaining the relationship with the original subproject and its parent project file), then copying and pasting the actual contents manually into new tracks in the parent project. Then mute the subproject, then make sure it all sounds right with the cut-and-pasted tracks, then delete the subproject (but not the media!) if you want to. Voila. That's no big deal, and it works fine for simple things. For complex things, it's a lot of work. But personally, I'd humbly suggest that you embrace subprojects in all their glory and take advantage of all you can really do... subprojects are like infinite magical nested treasure chests of power! Good luck!

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Old 07-02-2020, 05:15 PM   #25
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..why do you want to do this?
Because I need a non-destructive glue. Freeze doesn't fit the situation because it's hundreds of media items on a single track. (Dialogue editing, sometimes the director wants something changed and gluing items doesn't allow it.)

The complexity argument doesn't hold water; if you can copy/paste tracks with the Create Subproject function, then you can reverse it. Seems like it just hasn't been done yet.
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Old 07-02-2020, 06:32 PM   #26
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Because I need a non-destructive glue. Freeze doesn't fit the situation because it's hundreds of media items on a single track. (Dialogue editing, sometimes the director wants something changed and gluing items doesn't allow it.)
Non-destructive glue is a good usage for subprojects. I often use subprojects on films for dialogue editing and sound design. If you haven't changed the tempo or other deeper settings of the subproject (which is really just a project BTW!), then copying and pasting back into the parent project would be the way to go IMO if you HAVE to bring those audio items back in to the parent project, which I can see some advantage for in some cases.

However, you can also just continue using the subproject and really take advantage of what a subproject can do. Or you can do a hybrid approach by further editing the rendered subproject right in the parent project, since the parent project will treat that subproject as *simply audio*. That's the key to the subproject concept in Reaper is that it's just rendered audio of some other project. Once you look at it that way, it will guide your workflow choices with it. It's not always the best choice to use for a situation, but once you think of subprojects as rendered audio of other projects, then whole new possibilities (and some limitations) are there for you. That's the beauty of subprojects. And also the limitation you are experiencing.

Sometimes in dialogue editing or sound design for a film, if the subproject becomes too complex, I'll basically start to consider it as a separate mini cue and then drop a cut of the film into the subproject itself, lock it up, maybe extend it and focus on that cue by itself for a while, and then head back to the parent project to work on the rest of the film, since that audio is then rendered and automatically updated. Works great for post production. But you may not like that approach for your workflow, so maybe subprojects aren't the best choice for what you're doing.


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The complexity argument doesn't hold water; if you can copy/paste tracks with the Create Subproject function, then you can reverse it. Seems like it just hasn't been done yet.
Sorry I have to disagree with you on this point, since I think you may be missing what subprojects really are. Again, subprojects are just rendered audio, tied to some other Reaper project. That's it. It's brilliantly and deceptively simple IMO (maybe accidentally so or with great foresight by the devs, who knows?), a subproject is therefore infinitely complex and infinitely nestable, and can have any level of tempo and musical and FX and routing complexity, since it's just a render of some other Reaper project. Which BTW is critical for scoring with cues (for example) or doing sound design inside a master timeline in a parent project of a complete film which will have a different tempo envelope, for example.

By default, with the complexity of what you can do in a project, and the complexity of a Reaper project in general, a subproject (aka project!) can't be fully or perfectly "expanded" or "imported" into another project without impacting numerous issues, like the ones I mentioned before, but in particular a different tempo envelope. Just think how that would work. In fact, since you can actually time compress/expand as well as slice and dice the rendered audio of a subproject, on top of additional tempo manipulation with the parent project's own tempo envelope, just throw all that into the complexity equation of how the devs would pull off what you are asking. I'm not a developer, but I'd think it's nearly an impossible scenario to get sample-accurate and null out, considering tempo envelopes and time compression/expansion and render preferences, further sample-accurate editing, etc...

That's the key to see why complex subprojects can't really be fully and perfectly imported as their component tracks into the parent project. Again, subprojects are treated as audio files...

Also, creating a subproject (i.e. Move items to new subproject) is not and can not be reversible because of the nature of what a subproject really is and what it can become... Moving items to a new subproject is only ONE way to create a subproject. You can just import some other project (as complex as you can imagine with nested subprojects as well!) into an existing project and that other project then becomes a subproject of the parent project which you can then manipulate as audio. So as soon as you look at a subproject as simply a "rendered audio file of another project" you'll be able to best decide how subprojects can and can't be used for your workflow. Hope that all makes sense!

And again, if you're just using subprojects as simple containers with nothing fancy going on in the subproject, and nothing fancy going on with editing of the rendered audio file in the parent project, then copying and pasting approach will do what you want.

But then if you start playing with the rendered files of a subproject as audio, you'll start to see new uses of the subproject, which are super cool and open new creative possibilities and amazing new workflows that no other DAW has right now.

I'll give you a quick example of one way I use subprojects that will illustrate how it is infeasible (or probably impossible, but Justin would have to answer that!) to reverse course but yet at the same time gain some really amazing new workflows:

For example, when I do a sound design project, let's say of a laser beam sound for a film, I might create a very simple laser beam to start out with that is a stock laser beam sound from a sound library I own. Then, over time, I will create numerous layers of sound design inside my subproject to create a truly massive and awesome laser beam sound. I might even include tempo locked VSTi synth sound from U-he Diva and a Kontakt library sound... then a tempo locked delay effect with a tempo ramp, etc... you get the idea. So then, back in my parent project, I've got a pretty complex laser beam sound that might have 25 tracks in my subproject that includes audio, MIDI, VSTi, tempo changes, sends/returns, maybe even an iZotope Ozone as a compressor/limiter to round out the levels, etc... and it would be a pain in the neck to bring all those tracks and routing and fx and automation back into the parent project, but it would theoretically still be possible. Pain. But possible.

BUT WAIT. The director loves my laser beam sound so much that he wants to use it again in a time compressed flashback scene later on in the film, that has quick cuts in it with a stutter effect as he flash cuts to different scenes. What do I do? Easy! I just copy and paste the rendered audio of the subproject into the flashback scene exactly as-is, but then I do some time compression on it, then I add some take fx such as EQ, some filter effect, etc..., and then I slice and dice it to match the scene cuts perfectly to the frame. And now I have two distinctly different versions of the EXACT SAME subproject, one of which has been further manipulated during the flashback sequence inside the parent project.

BUT WAIT. The director asks me to change the first instance of the laser beam sound, and wants me to also change the sound accordingly for the flashback sequence. Guess what, easy as pie. I just go inside the subproject, make the general changes to the laser beam sound there, and it automatically updates BOTH instances of the subproject -- INCLUDING the sliced and diced flashback scene -- perfectly. Voila. The magic of subprojects.

BUT WAIT. The director loves the laser beam so much, he wants 10 more variations of it in different parts of the film... also easy! There are three approaches I use to handle this -- and I might use all three in one film. 1) copy and and paste the original subproject audio and add take fx and pitch/time manipulation, 2) create nested subprojects that give me even more creative flexibility, 3) extend the first subproject length where I create alternate "takes" or "options" of the laser beam sound inside the original subproject... then I can slice and dice which "option" I want throughout the film. All three approaches give me enormous creative flexibility.

You could actually build a massive library of laser beam sounds right inside ONE subproject once you get the hang of it, and then have massive control over literally hundreds of laserbeam instances inside your parent project. That's where subprojects can shine...

And now back to your point of making it REVERSIBLE, by importing a subproject's tracks and effects and routing and automation and tempo perfectly back into a parent project, I hope it's clear from that example, that it would be basically impossible, especially with the extensive manipulation you can do of the rendered subproject's *audio* in the parent project. Not to mention that you'll lose all the incredible creative flexibility of using multiple edited copies of a single subproject that will then update seamlessly ALL the instances of the subproject throughout the film!

Hope all that makes sense, and if not, I'm at a loss for words, lol. Cheers in any case, wish you the best!

And apologies if I've taken this thread a little off topic. But hopefully I've made a case for the devs to please consider taking a look at my recent feature request of adding a subproject management control panel! After all, that would make the scenario I just painted above far easier to manage in Reaper once a person starts building complex nested subprojects!

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Old 04-01-2021, 09:48 PM   #27
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DONE - Option to see master project markers/regions reflected in subprojects
These markers/regions could be shown as semi transparent or maybe a grey colour to distinguish them and they probably wouldn't be editable, just ghosted on to the subproject for reference.
Does anyone know how to do this? The first post says it's done, but I don't see it anywhere.
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Old 10-26-2022, 02:18 AM   #28
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Feature request that the Loopback "Rearoute" system be automated for use in subprojects

Justin. Thanks for this feature, I've only just learned of it's existence!

I wanted to plead a use for them as this could be super powerful for subprojects when used for musical purposes.

Would you consider a right click option in the project tabs that would automate the process of auditioning a sub project via it's actual track that's in the main project rather than the sub project's own master output?


What I mean by this is that if I have some complex drum recordings I've done and want to offset processing etc for them, I normally turn them into a subproject.
This works great till I then want to edit those drums whilst still hearing the master project because currently the drums are not sent through the master projects drum track with it's automation and effects etc but via the sub project main output.

If there was an option whereby when opening the drums subproject reaper would do the following but behind the scenes and only whilst the sub project is open;

-mute subproject main output
-set up a rearoute direct output on the master outs of the subproject
-setup up a rearoute input on the track in the main project that corresponds with the subproject item
-maybe compensate the input for the current audio buffer delay?
-undo all the above steps when the sub project is closed


Currently I (and few others I work with) only really use subprojects for sound design and film work where the relationship to the main project isn't as important but because of not being able to hear subprojects through their effects and at the correct level easily with automation, subprojects don't work as well for music.

This would massively increase the amount of people using them I think. Thoughts?
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Old 10-26-2022, 05:19 AM   #29
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Hmmm ...

Right now subprojects don't "run", but are pre-rendered and just work like media an the main project. (There is a feature request for "live" subprojects that actually "run" in playback - similar to project tabs - , but AFAIK, no hope for this right now.)

Hence routing with subprojects does not seem like an option,
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Old 10-26-2022, 05:40 AM   #30
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Hmmm ...

Right now subprojects don't "run", but are pre-rendered and just work like media an the main project. (There is a feature request for "live" subprojects that actually "run" in playback - similar to project tabs - , but AFAIK, no hope for this right now.)

Hence routing with subprojects does not seem like an option,
-Michael
And yes, that's how it should be when the subproject is not open in a separate tab but...

When you open a subproject from within the main project.

You can go into the subproject, play it and the main project will play in sync with it

As long as the right options are selected in the menu you get when you right click the project tab at the top of the screen.

The main issue is that this simply plays both in sync which means that you don't hear any of the main project processing for that subproject as the subproject simply comes out at it's own level.

What I'm hoping for is a way to have an option so that when syncing both sub and main projects, the subproject is heard as if it was still in the main project.

I can set this up as it is manually each time so it's doable but would be great if it was able to be automatically done
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Old 10-26-2022, 01:31 PM   #31
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I did not know that it makes sense to open a subproject in a separate tab.
Of course it would be much better is a subproject simply could be defined to be "live" vs "pre-rendered"
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Old 01-19-2016, 12:05 PM   #32
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- Monitoring edited subprojects via the master project's item output.
Ok, this is probably a pain in the ass to code.. but it's going to get asked to be done by every musician out there and it would complete the ability to link subprojects to the master project.
It really would be so damn useful/powerful (plus it's keeping me up at night worrying that it's not doable and ruins my utopian reaper dreams!)
This would be a big thing for me.
..and the ability to us master-project fx for sub-projects as well.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:49 PM   #33
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I work in video game sound design and have been using sub projects since Christmas. This feature has improved my workflow considerably. Iterating sounds has become an organic and enjoyable process, whereas in other DAW's it is extremely tedious and can ruin creative flow.(Print,Fade,Rename,Export for 6 gun shot sounds over 5 revisions makes my wrist hurt just thinking about it)

Most of my wishes for sub projects have already been discussed in this thread, however there are a few small but big things I would like to see added in future updates:

1) An option to render the ReaProxy file on command. Right now it happens either on save, or deferred on switching to the master project. Additionally, sometimes when opening a project it needs to re-render the proxy. If initiated on command it would prevent hiccups in work flow when moving quickly between sessions and project tabs.

2) Sometimes you don't need multiple tabbed sub projects if you are working on dialog for one character and just want to render to pre-edited and pre-named items from a proxy file. The ability to load a session in to itself as a proxy would make this system more flexible for both single track to large multi track sessions.

3) This was mentioned before but I want to stress it again. The ability to create multiple sets of start and end markers in to one sub project would revolutionize Reaper for game audio even further. Again for dialog as an example, if you have 250 lines of dialog and only want to work on the first 50 lines and the last 50 lines, adding in two sets of start and end markers would allow the reproxy to skip rendering the middle 150 lines of dialog (as render times can become quite long when working with long timelines sessions). A big pretty please for this one.

4) For years game audio designers have been looking to merge the DAW and audio game engine integration in a more seamless way. Up until sub projects came along there wasn't much hope. To take sub projects one step further and really push Reaper forward as a top contender for game sound design, something as simple as merging the ReaProxy render with the standard Render function would do that. Example: You create a sub project and make a series of 10 creature barks. Render the ReaProxy, cut and re-name your files once, only once (still can't get over it) and render using the 'render selected item's' option. Now, if there was an option to trigger an action which would simultaneously render the ReaProxy (as per my first suggestion) and then render the selected items immediately using my last render settings without opening the render screen this would come very close to real time creation and iteration. Now when I check my sounds in game and they need more compression, back to reaper, make changes, hit one key, done - back to the engine, needs more top end, repeat the above.


Thanks for reading.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:59 AM   #34
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erichiop, good points there!

I too feel the same about how much this feature has changed my work process so am big into getting it added to asap.

1. added it to the list!

2. Not quite sure what you mean here? all subprojects are just normal projects and can be loaded, edited and saved as normal which then updates any other projects that contain them (even if not loaded at the time). If I've got that wrong, feel free to add more detail here.

3. I've already added this request to the top but i think my request was more about defining parts of the subproject as different takes/options in the main project. (a quick tip is that using the "open copy of item in editor" menu option will create a duplicate of the subproject which is hand y to try out different options)
For now, it might be worth using different subprojects for the different scenes (if you don't already) as I've got a feature film coming up next month which will need a lot of this stuff so I intend to put each scene's dialogue into different subprojects but on the same master project's track as it makes moving it all around easy and loading just that one scene's dialogue faster. I still would like this feature though!

4. That would be useful. For now it's not too bad as you can reaper update the subproject on save/change tab and then when you're in the master project you can use the action "render project using most recent settings" which will then render them quickly (if done once before hand) This is what I'm doing now

As a bonus to this, me and a few others are working with Taz from Fabric audio to make ".PROX" files work in fabric (under unity) in this very manner so not only can you open the reaper subproject from within unity but you can also pop into reaper, change the subproject and then go back into unity to have the sound instantly updated. It's going to be amazing!
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:20 PM   #35
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erichiop, good points there!

I too feel the same about how much this feature has changed my work process so am big into getting it added to asap.

1. added it to the list!

2. Not quite sure what you mean here? all subprojects are just normal projects and can be loaded, edited and saved as normal which then updates any other projects that contain them (even if not loaded at the time). If I've got that wrong, feel free to add more detail here.

3. I've already added this request to the top but i think my request was more about defining parts of the subproject as different takes/options in the main project. (a quick tip is that using the "open copy of item in editor" menu option will create a duplicate of the subproject which is hand y to try out different options)
For now, it might be worth using different subprojects for the different scenes (if you don't already) as I've got a feature film coming up next month which will need a lot of this stuff so I intend to put each scene's dialogue into different subprojects but on the same master project's track as it makes moving it all around easy and loading just that one scene's dialogue faster. I still would like this feature though!

4. That would be useful. For now it's not too bad as you can reaper update the subproject on save/change tab and then when you're in the master project you can use the action "render project using most recent settings" which will then render them quickly (if done once before hand) This is what I'm doing now

As a bonus to this, me and a few others are working with Taz from Fabric audio to make ".PROX" files work in fabric (under unity) in this very manner so not only can you open the reaper subproject from within unity but you can also pop into reaper, change the subproject and then go back into unity to have the sound instantly updated. It's going to be amazing!
Just wanted to clarify a few of my points

1. Thank you for adding it!

2.No you don't have this wrong, it is very close to functioning how I described in my original post. But for example, I created a script to replace a blank items' source with the current sessions' .RRP file, so I could essentially have a proxy of my current project within itself. It is ALMOST working except I get a nasty bug when I close and open the project again (Reaper tried to re-render the reaproxy but hangs until I cancel it).

3. I see what you're saying about multiple Sub Projects for different scenes and I definitely have done that. However for game audio sometimes you have one character who has 250 lines and want to keep the same processing across all (if doing things like parallel processing for effects) but you do not want to render all of the lines each time you export a revision.

4.Did not know about the render project using most recent settings function, thank you!! But for V2.0 it would be amazing to combine my first request with this function, it would take it rom good to great.

Thanks again for this thread, looking forward to the future of this great feature.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:42 PM   #36
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Just wanted to clarify a few of my points

1. Thank you for adding it!
benefits us all!

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Originally Posted by erichiop View Post
2.No you don't have this wrong, it is very close to functioning how I described in my original post. But for example, I created a script to replace a blank items' source with the current sessions' .RRP file, so I could essentially have a proxy of my current project within itself. It is ALMOST working except I get a nasty bug when I close and open the project again (Reaper tried to re-render the reaproxy but hangs until I cancel it).
Maybe one thing we can ask devs for then is additions to or an API for subprojects

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3. I see what you're saying about multiple Sub Projects for different scenes and I definitely have done that. However for game audio sometimes you have one character who has 250 lines and want to keep the same processing across all (if doing things like parallel processing for effects) but you do not want to render all of the lines each time you export a revision.
That's a good point which I too would get into with certain game elements too. I have a feeling that this might be a hard one to have (same as using them for takes), I hope not though!
What I was intending to do was to do my edits inside the subprojects (all the messy stuff) and then using the fact that subprojects can output multichannels at once to then mix each actor at on separate tracks even though they come out of the same item.. Same for output stems from the music into the master project too. Love this feature!


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4.Did not know about the render project using most recent settings function, thank you!! But for V2.0 it would be amazing to combine my first request with this function, it would take it rom good to great.
indeed, all useful additions!

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Thanks again for this thread, looking forward to the future of this great feature.
no probs. What we really need are tons of votes at the top to show the devs how big this feature is
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:50 AM   #37
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It would be a nice implementation for Subproject to save as a mono channel audio file, when the MONO button on the master track is checked, so we can use Subproject for vocal/guitar recording/comping or sample processing (kick/snare). It would not only save some disk space, but compatible with some mono only scripts as well.
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:26 AM   #38
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It would be a nice implementation for Subproject to save as a mono channel audio file, when the MONO button on the master track is checked, so we can use Subproject for vocal/guitar recording/comping or sample processing (kick/snare). It would not only save some disk space, but compatible with some mono only scripts as well.
Good idea!

I have a feeling that this might take a while to get in since reaper will already change a subprojects amount of channels to the same as the master but reaper has never really yet handled anything mono. Will see if that changes at some point and then ask for this. Have to wait for Notation to be done first I think
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:17 AM   #39
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Hi guys, is this thread still live?

I'm using subprojects a lot in post production on game cutscenes at the moment, and I've got a couple of requests.

1. Pass through video to subproject video window from master project

- If you enter a subproject, the audio will sync with the main project, but the video will not play in the video window. This is a problem, as you lose visual feedback once you enter a subproject to edit it

2. Save new version of an imported subproject

- If I grab a subproject and import it into a project, then edit it, I can't save as it would break the project it was originally used in. So you have to save it as another version, and then reimport it again.
Probably a way to fix this would be to have the option to import a copy of a subproject instead, which can then be edited and saved without breaking the cutscene it has been pillaged from.

Hope that makes sense, and thanks devs for an amazingly useful feature
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Old 07-28-2016, 05:40 AM   #40
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Hi Travesty,

The thread is still relevant yes and it needs people to ask the devs for a "2nd pass" on the subprojects feature at some point (using this thread as a reference).

having said that..here are some rough answers for you (On the move at the moment so they are a bit messy)

The first issue you mention with video is up there on the list but what I do for now is when creating the subproject I will also copy a time selection area of the video and paste this into the top track in the subproject as well. It's not ideal but since subprojects don't render video then it works quite well. If you then move positions in the video you can just copy and paste again. Also, I've found this useful for animations as you can have a close up animation vid in the subproject and have the in game version in the master file.

The second thing you mentioned regarding copying is also something I would like sorted. but for now, you can set a option up in reaper (or a toolbar button) to simply enable the preference to make reaper import a copy and not a reference. This will then make the imported version a copy automatically. You can also make a duplicate simply by using the "open a copy of item in external editor" which is a right click on the item option. This will make a 2nd take on top of that item with a newly copied reference of the subproject which is separate from the original. Both of these also copy all audio files into the project too.

Hope that helps.
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