vitalker...thank you i know your heart is in the right place, but yes I know you can draw in AI but they don't copy along with the rest of the selection unless there's an attached item. Also they aren't meant for this purpose.
I don't understand you sentence about heart. I didn't say either we don't need area selection. It's actually a part of Reaper ideology, but for some reason is not a part of Reaper code/features.
Another way we could use AS, is to do advanced comping without splits. Each selection could be shown next to each other to a new lane at the top, where from there we could change their order or apply any kind of editing
I don't understand you sentence about heart. I didn't say either we don't need area selection. It's actually a part of Reaper ideology, but for some reason is not a part of Reaper code/features.
Hi sorry vitalker I just meant I appreciate you trying to help but it unfortunately doesn't in this case.
Ferropop, honestly dog bless you for putting so much time and attention towards explaining this. I think you've demonstrated really well why this would be helpful. To me, it seems like one of just a handful of really mundane-sounding but very important functions that Reaper lacks.
I don't really understand the backlash, nothing ferropop has posted has been confusing or felt longwinded to me. But maybe that's just because I already understand the request and am very on board.
I don't really understand the backlash, nothing ferropop has posted has been confusing or felt longwinded to me. But maybe that's just because I already understand the request and am very on board.
Because it's not backlash - I notice sometimes that anything other than "hell yea do this now" somehow gets misinterpreted as backlash - human nature I guess but devil's advocate replies, people thinking through the reality the problem et al, is never backlash, it's simply being real about the issue.
Historically, I've watched Airon post FRs for over 10 years now, they follow a very explicit, professional, consistent readable template - I'd be surprised if he doesn't know this from some other area in his life because it's very similar to how it is supposed to be done in various industries and enterprises.
That's all there is to it, if you guys want a higher success rate for FRs in general, pay extremely close attention to his bugs and FRs and the entire format and wording he uses. At least consider for the future.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 05-01-2020 at 03:45 PM.
Because it's not backlash - I notice sometimes that anything other than "hell yea do this now" somehow gets misinterpreted as backlash - human nature I guess but devil's advocate replies, people thinking through the reality the problem et al, is never backlash, it's simply being real about the issue.
Historically, I've watched Airon post FRs for over 10 years now, they follow a very explicit, professional, consistent readable template - I'd be surprised if he doesn't know this from some other area in his life because it's very similar to how it is supposed to be done in various industries and enterprises.
That's all there is to it, and just posting GIFs and saying "x does it right" isn't anything like Airon's process/template (not backlash ferro, just noticing!) - maybe it will help but honestly if you guys want a higher success rate for FRs in general, pay extremely close attention to his bugs and FRs and the entire format and wording he uses. At least consider for the future.
That's totally fair and I find this response constructive for sure. Maybe backlash was too strong of a word, but I have also seen some emotions flaring up. I just think that ferro's posts have SEEMED (from a non-developer, non-coder perspective) sufficient in explaining the issue at hand, the argument, etc. And at this point it seems like we're debating over little details of how the issue is presented.
That being said, if there hasn't been a very systematic, clean-cut, well-explained and argued no-nonsense feature request made, then maybe all of us who want this to happen could benefit from that being made. Or if it has been made, maybe a new one could be made.
I think arguing in favor of it from different perspectives is valuable. Explanatory gifs at least seem valuable. And hopefully, quantity of posts is valuable in itself too, to show that people care, and to bump it to the top of the discussion. (Considering how old this request is, though, maybe not.)
EDIT: Just realized that we are in a thread about area selection created by Airon, hahah. My bad for getting lost in the weeds. I will point out, though, that the original post isn't exactly clear at all about what is being requested - it reads less like a request than a continuation of some other request. but it's also pretty old at this point so I'm not sure if editing the original post would be helpful. I guess I'm saying maybe a new master thread would be helpful? I'm not sure what my point is, probably just ignore me.
Last edited by SamuelBeckett; 05-01-2020 at 03:27 PM.
Maybe backlash was too strong of a word, but I have also seen some emotions flaring up.
It's certainly all good I'm certain this has been explained sufficiently over time so I'm not suggesting they go back to square one - it was really as much about the future in general - devs live in a completely different world so what makes perfect sense to our needs may be a different animal to others who would need to do the work.
Either way the more we all know about each other and how to get there, the better so none of my comments are meant as a detraction etc. - even when my wording doesn't do a great job of making that obvious. I do tend to be very factual and dry but that's only from an investigatory standpoint not related to anyone etc.
Take care!
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Those screen recordings are a good illustration of what's possible. I'm sure they'll provide inspiration.
Let's define some parameters that the developers can follow, should they choose to tackle this and do get around to it.
Area selection
Mouse modifiers for creating or modifying the selection, as well as a mouse modifier to extend the area selection to other tracks/lanes. Users will likely want to use SHIFT+area-selection for box-shaped selections, CTRL/CMD+area-selection for adding/removing tracks/lanes of selections.
Area selection is a time+item selection in principal that can span multiple tracks, envelope lanes or combinations of the above. It is created or modified with a click and drag of the mouse.
It excludes item selection outside the time selection boundaries. This is one of the major differences to vanilla time+item selections.
The selection should be visually distinct from standard time+item selections. The screen recordings Ferropop posted show some good examples that look quite a bit better than the classic old waveform inversion shown in 2-track editors and Protools. This probably needs iteration.
It should work with copy, cut, paste, split and duplication actions for items, envelopes and automation items.
Item grouping would work with all touched items.
Optional goodies could include mouse modifier contexts for area selection edges for time-compression/expansion. Would be a good fit for Reapers capabilities. Currently if you select multiple items and use the item edge to do a stretch/squeeze it handles ever in an individual relative manner. This could handle a sequence of items as a unit.
You know, this could be an option that toggles a visual change and the exclusion of items outside the time selection. Selecting across multiple tracks or lanes could be added to all selection methods.
For those interested, the actual FR was posted over 12 years ago, posted in the now deprecated issue tracker almost 11 years ago and has been discussed, voted for and been knocking about this forum ever since.
https://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=122
That’s probably the most comprehensive version, though the approach is one I would not take today. We did not have mouse modifiers back then iirc.
Love you all and appreciate all (con/des)tructvisms if they're in the spirit of making this DAW we all love better. I know I get heated sometimes...it probably gets in the way but it's just passion. We have a golden DAW in our hands, a well-kept secret in some regards, and to see it stagnate on such a core thing (when it's lightyears ahead in almost every other regard) just breaks my heart.
You can create a track+time selection with one click and drag.
Area selection makes range selection across tracks possible, unlike time+item selections in Reaper 6.09. If there's no item, Reaper has no damn idea what tracks your mouse cursor passed over during selection after letting go of that mouse button. The last track selection is all you have.
Area selection can fill that void. Click and drag.
This would enable things like "Delete all envelopes in time and track selection", which right now would require manually adding tracks to the selection after or before making that time selection
Thanks airon, I tried to demonstrate all of that in my gifs...all it really takes is to use a different DAW for a few minutes and feel just how much more intuitive selection and arrangement are. You really cannot beat drawing an obvious box over what you want to manipulate, and hitting copy/delete/duplicate on it.
This is not to even mention the obvious errors/limitations in the current Time/Item selection in Reaper especially when it comes to automation.
Multiple Areas with ability to activate any of them:
With this, you can basically create any kind of loop in matter of seconds
Working with envelopes is FINALLY beautiful:
do not underestimate this extremely basic actions select,copy and delete
Possibilities that come along:
Working with folders:
Remember that FR to be able to work with folders (I think it was "Editable folders"??))? Well you get that by default with it
And I do not even want to go further what else is possible, this above are basics which alone improve workflow a LOT.
Side effect of this Feature is solves many other FR
Another advantage is that area selection, Since it's a block it takes care of the time for items, automations points and envelopes which are not In the beat and we still can just select and paste using grid on beat.
Another advantage is that area selection, Since it's a block it takes care of the time for items, automations points and envelopes which are not In the beat and we still can just select and paste using grid on beat.
Yup, this is huge!
I'm starting to think the people that don't fully understand why we're pushing so hard for this are people doing oldschool tape-machine-style linear recording of bands. Is that maybe the majority of Reaper users?
I totally understand it's value for the music you guys make - but no, it's something I rarely need personally since I record tracks, bands, performances and never say copy verse one and paste it as verse two (that would break the spell so to speak) unless it's a mockup for an arrangement. I think the user base though has a lot of multiple types of composers/recordists but reaper was born from an audio/tape background FWIW. Contrast that with something like FL Studio.. I still have Fruity Loops 1.0 'somewhere' (and probably Acid 1.0) where FL was just a static 16-step standalone sequencer aka it's roots.
I do have Komplete 11 and an MK3 and occasionally spend a weekend composing electronic music where I would use such features, as I'd be composing in Reaper, but that's a tiny percentage. I'm all for it but not really something I use anywhere close to the extent you guys do.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Contrast that with something like FL Studio.. I still have Fruity Loops 1.0 'somewhere' (and probably Acid 1.0) where FL was just a static 16-step standalone sequencer aka it's roots.
Well actually FL studio doesn't have Area selection.
I don't see this as a feature for eDm pRoDuCeRs or whatever. I think anyone who ever copies or moves something in a project would benefit from this. Especially if automation is involved and you want that automation to follow along intact.
If all you do is record long takes and never rearrange them in any way, then you probably don't need this.
If all you do is record long takes and never rearrange them in any way, then you probably don't need this.
That's what I was saying. I don't rearrange item's on the timeline unless it is a mockup 99% of the time; it wouldn't sound right for that music.... And if I do, it's not going to be after automation etc. where as MIDI based, copying and moving around... that often IS the composition. It's not a better or worse it's serving different needs.
Except long takes is mostly irrelevant, punch-ins, overdubs etc. don't need copy/paste of areas just like they didn't in the linear days.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
I think anyone who ever copies or moves something in a project would benefit from this. Especially if automation is involved and you want that automation to follow along intact.
Especially guys with huge projects such as orchestral music makers, sound designers and electronical, too. Even those who just record instruments and then mixing them, still would benefit.
There a lot more audio fields than music, dialog recording and editing which for example do all of this actions (working with game audio, movies etc etc)
I’d make multiple automation items at once with this as well.
Another plus is selecting tracks with a simple click and drag in the arrangement view. When I want the same EQ setting to be applied to multiple tracks, I copy a piece of audio with those settings to the target tracks, locate the playhead to them, switch to Write mode(here is where I save time with area selection by click and dragging across the tracks to select them), make a time selection across the target area, hit play and execute the writing action. Stop, all read, all latch. Done.
Every bit of time saving counts. Having to select a range of tracks via the TCP or on the control surface is slower.
Imho the benefits are outweighing the inconveniences.
Haha, schwa replaced the file with this picture. I think he wanna beat me for that GIF. I'm sorry schwa for publising it, but I saved the GIF. Don't worry, I won't publish it again.