Old 06-11-2021, 10:13 AM   #1
Edgemeal
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Default v6.29+dev0611 - June 11 2021

v6.29+dev0611 - June 11 2021
* Includes feature branch: render normalization
* Includes feature branch: MIDI editor note reordering
* Includes feature branch: media item lanes
* Includes feature branch: EEL2 x86_64/SSE
* Includes feature branch: VST3 bridging
+ Master meters: display a single value for LUFS, because it's not a per-channel calculation
+ Master track: support displaying LUFS-I in mixer (loudness meter will display LUFS-M, but displayed number will be LUFS-I)
+ Render queue: add button to cancel all remaining renders [t=234691]
# Media item lanes: only draw overlapping items as opaque if drawing vertical offset
# Preferences: fix enabling apply button when editing track default lane preferences

Full changelog / Latest pre-releases
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:29 AM   #2
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+ Render queue: add button to cancel all remaining renders [t=234691]

Thank you!
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
+ Master track: support displaying LUFS-I in mixer (loudness meter will display LUFS-M, but displayed number will be LUFS-I)
Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
+ Render queue: add button to cancel all remaining renders [t=234691]
Nice to see improvement to the render queue!

Something that I miss a lot is the ability to edit queued renders.

Sometimes when checking the queue before starting the render I may notice one or more mistakes and have to remove the render(s) and manually configure everything again hoping to make no mistake, while often just one detail is incorrect.

It would be nice if we could either (or ideally both) double-click a field and edit it or have an "Edit selected" button at the bottom that opens the render dialog of the selected render and allows us to change what needs to be changed.

Having a "#" number column would also be helpful to know we didn't leave out a render when we know we need to end up with a certain amount of renders. Being able to drag to reorder (and render in that order) would be appreciated too, as well as a right-click context menu for single renders ("Edit", "Remove", "Render"), just for convenience.

Also a further column to show the file name without the render path (to more quickly recognize renders) and perhaps the possibility to change the order of columns (not sure if I would change it personally though) would make sense IMO.

Sorry for all the FRs, it's just some thoughts on how to improve the render queue, should you be willing to work on that now. Personally I mostly hope you will consider the ability to edit queued renders.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:04 AM   #4
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Another fishy thing is going on with stereo render peaks display.

When rendering silence, CH1 draws a pixel while CH2 doesn't.



Not sure if the intended behavior is to draw a pixel or not. IMO it would make more sense to not draw a pixel but given that in mono renders the pixel is drawn too, I guess the intended behavior is the drawing. Anyway, whatever it is, it should be consistent for all channels.

EDIT: Nevermind, it disappears when bypassing my master FX chain. Perhaps there is some plugin that does something with CH1, even if the meters show -inf..

EDIT2: It's the Tiny Ebu Jsfx. Will contact the maker TBProAudio and point it out to him.

Last edited by Phazma; 06-11-2021 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by matt_t View Post
+ Render queue: add button to cancel all remaining renders [t=234691]

Thank you!
From me too
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:09 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
Another fishy thing is going on with stereo render peaks display.

When rendering silence, CH1 draws a pixel while CH2 doesn't.
I'm not seeing that. Is this a hidpi or retina display?
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:16 AM   #7
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I'm not seeing that. Is this a hidpi or retina display?
Sorry I just edited my post. I saw the problem is not on Reaper's side, it is caused by a third party Jsfx that is not supposed to make any sound but apparently does something. Will contact its developer.

Edit: I actually use both retina and normal full HD in conjunction. On the full HD I can see this on a normal render, on the retina only after normalizing. Not sure if this info is in any way useful to you (given that it is not Reaper to cause the original problem).
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v6.29+dev0611 - June 11 2021

+ Render queue: add button to cancel all remaining renders [t=234691]

Full changelog / Latest pre-releases
YES finally!
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:03 PM   #9
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+ Master track: support displaying LUFS-I in mixer (loudness meter will display LUFS-M, but displayed number will be LUFS-I)
That's very confusing. It should be simple - meter is the same as read-out. Or possibly come up with some better design overall.
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v6.29+dev0611 - June 11 2021
+ Master meters: display a single value for LUFS, because it's not a per-channel calculation
Can the appearance of the LUFS value be modified by WALTER? For some reason I can't see it on my main theme...
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:08 PM   #11
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That's very confusing. It should be simple - meter is the same as read-out. Or possibly come up with some better design overall.
LUFS-I is a measure of the entire program loudness, so the meter wouldn't really move much, and it would stay lit even when not playing back.

Since LUFS-I is literally the integrated/gated value of every LUFS-M measurement of the program material, it made sense to us to display it this way.
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
LUFS-I is a measure of the entire program loudness, so the meter wouldn't really move much, and it would stay lit even when not playing back.

Since LUFS-I is literally the integrated/gated value of every LUFS-M measurement of the program material, it made sense to us to display it this way.
Hi schwa

Draw opaque enabled for dev0609 and dev0611. See pics

Now it's OK.
Media item lanes: only draw overlapping items as opaque if drawing vertical offset
Attached Images
File Type: png Opaque dev0609.png (16.6 KB, 71 views)
File Type: png Opaque dev0611.png (17.5 KB, 70 views)
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:52 PM   #13
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Default LV2 multi-out plugins lose routing

I don't know when this problem started, or if it were always there since LV2 was added to Reaper...

If I use a multi-out (more than 2 output) LV2 plugin in Reaper for Linux, and I change the pinout for the output channels, that configuration is lost when I close Reaper, re-open Reaper, then re-load the project. (Sometimes what results is a combination of the custom routing, plus the default original routing, which ends up with copied output channels.)

I noticed this with LSP Plugins "Multi-Sampler x24 DirectOut" and DrumGizmo LV2 plugins.
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Old 06-11-2021, 08:45 PM   #14
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Devs thanks for the track lanes It is a really good feature I will try to move from my use of item lanes to track lanes now.

Although I think track lanes and Item lanes shouldn't be exclusive. If we can put more than one item overlapping in the same lane it seems to me having a way to display them in lanes (inside track lanes) should work in a design perspective... So the old behavior would still be available with the new one of track lanes.
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:46 PM   #15
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I just tested Yoshimi multi (32 outputs).

If I *add* to the default config, it saves changes OK.
If I remove any default pins, it does not save those edits. The defaults (plus any additions) are back when reopening the project.

I don't even have to close Reaper, just the project.

Ubuntu 20.04 LTS

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Old 06-12-2021, 01:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
LUFS-I is a measure of the entire program loudness, so the meter wouldn't really move much, and it would stay lit even when not playing back.

Since LUFS-I is literally the integrated/gated value of every LUFS-M measurement of the program material, it made sense to us to display it this way.
But does it make sense to users? To not confuse things, "LUFS-I" option should show integrated both the meter and the readout. Then there can be an option "LUFS M+I" which would show M meter and I readout.
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Old 06-12-2021, 01:36 AM   #17
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Also, the active mode should be indicated somewhere to see at first glance what I have selected. The modes being RMS, LUFS-S, LUFS-M, LUFS-I (LUFS-M+I possibly).
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Old 06-12-2021, 02:11 AM   #18
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Perhaps it would also be useful to implement a few methods for resetting the LUFS (I). Perhaps an option in preferences to reset when pressning play, and actions just for resetting.
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Old 06-12-2021, 02:50 AM   #19
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Perhaps it would also be useful to implement a few methods for resetting the LUFS (I). Perhaps an option in preferences to reset when pressning play, and actions just for resetting.
Also clicking the meter should reset the meter. Currently only click at the value resets it.
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Old 06-12-2021, 02:51 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
+ Master track: support displaying LUFS-I in mixer (loudness meter will display LUFS-M, but displayed number will be LUFS-I)
Full changelog / Latest pre-releases
This feels like a practical implementation to me

Phazma - I can find it in imperial. Right click on the MCP master meter and select your options there
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Old 06-12-2021, 03:04 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v6.29+dev0611 - June 11 2021
+ Master track: support displaying LUFS-I in mixer (loudness meter will display LUFS-M, but displayed number will be LUFS-I)
Thanks!

Now if we could have LUFS-M for normal track meters, too, it would be perfect!
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Old 06-12-2021, 03:27 AM   #22
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Phazma - I can find it in imperial. Right click on the MCP master meter and select your options there
It seems to show up in most themes except of my I Logic mod..



Also if showing peaks at bottom they show correctly, only LUFS doesn't.

No clue what I have f*ucked up this time but I am slowly growing tired of spending hours on coming up with hacks for things that I want and then always something breaks somewhere and no-one can help me because I am triggering some edge cases that no-one else runs into.
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Old 06-12-2021, 04:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
Another fishy thing is going on with stereo render peaks display.

When rendering silence, CH1 draws a pixel while CH2 doesn't.



Not sure if the intended behavior is to draw a pixel or not. IMO it would make more sense to not draw a pixel but given that in mono renders the pixel is drawn too, I guess the intended behavior is the drawing. Anyway, whatever it is, it should be consistent for all channels.

EDIT: Nevermind, it disappears when bypassing my master FX chain. Perhaps there is some plugin that does something with CH1, even if the meters show -inf..

EDIT2: It's the Tiny Ebu Jsfx. Will contact the maker TBProAudio and point it out to him.
I also tried a few other js's where the same phenomenon occurs on silent intervals,

js: Phase Rotator (at 0°)
js: Channel Polarity Control (normal)
js: volume adjustment (unity)
js: Automatic Gain Stager (default)

- all above seems to affect waveform drawing, left channel, right or both, and only when showed in Render preview. Doesn't affect the sound or anything, still it triggers the eye as if there's a wrong setting somewhere.

mac Retina or normal HD display.

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Old 06-12-2021, 05:02 AM   #24
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+ Master meters: display a single value for LUFS, because it's not a per-channel calculation
+ Master track: support displaying LUFS-I in mixer (loudness meter will display LUFS-M, but displayed number will be LUFS-I)
Great –and even more combinations will be very useful, so keep them coming!

As an example, when using LUFS-S (only), I prefer to see Short-term realtime values rather than max at the top, and freely select another type of readout down below, or even blank (=none).

I'm aware the jsfx has it all, but why not if the readout settings for the Master meter allow for more combinations top/bottom. Furthermore it would be über cool to be able to save master VU user presets including meter settings, and of course have a 'reset to factory' if a user wish to start over.
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Old 06-12-2021, 05:05 AM   #25
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When doing dry-render using

A,B=reaper.GetSetProjectInfo_String(0, "RENDER_STATS", "42440", false)

the Render-Stats are not included at all, when the loudness is -inf.

Example output:
"FILE:C:\Users\Meo\Desktop\master-offcamera-ep57-kristenbell-re-run_tc.wav"

As soon, as there's some kind of peak, the render-stats are shown:

"FILE:C:\Users\Meo\Desktop\master-offcamera-ep57-kristenbell-re-run_tc.wav;PEAK:-105.364203;CLIP:0;RMSI:-120.863483"

I would expect to show the render-stats all the time.


I also had numerous crashes using the codeline above, due something within the reainsert-plugin. I could reproduce it numerous times but not anymore.
But I have some crashdumps that I could put online. Would this help?

Edit:

What's the purpose of this FILE-combination, when I dry render using "Calculate loudness of master mix within time selection via dry run render"?

FILE:C:\Users\Meo\Desktop\master-untitled MIDI item.wav;PEAK:+0.267683;CLIP:34;RMSI:-16.931127;LRA:5.800000;LUFSI:-16.038017


It looks like it takes "master", which I expected, but also the takename of the item which:

a) starts at the beginning of the time-selection and
b) is the lowest of the items trackwise starting at time-selection.

I don't really understand the benefit of it, as it's only one of the items included in the FILE-name, but never all of them...
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Old 06-12-2021, 05:08 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by PhelixK View Post
I also tried a few other js's where the same phenomenon occurs on silent intervals,

js: Phase Rotator (at 0°)
js: Channel Polarity Control (normal)
js: volume adjustment (unity)
js: Automatic Gain Stager (default)

- all above seems to affect waveform drawing, left channel, right or both, and only when showed in Render preview. Doesn't affect the sound or anything, still it triggers the eye as if there's a wrong setting somewhere.

mac Retina or normal HD display.
Also the maker of the JSFX that caused this weird pixel checked his code and confirmed that silence should come out if no sound goes through:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio View Post
Just tested here, silence out if silence in.


you can check here:


Code:
@sample
  
  (play_state) ?
  (
    (last_play_state != play_state) ?
      EBUR128LM.LM_EBUR128_Reset_MultiCh();
  );
  last_play_state = play_state;

  play_state_tmp = (play_state == 1) || (play_state == 5);
  EBUR128LM.LM_EBUR128_Process_MultiCh(spl0, spl1, spl2, spl3, spl4, spl5, channelconfig, (metermode == 4),(metermode == 3) && (play_state_tmp == 1));
  
// EO@sample
splx go into function, but never modified.
Things like the Cockos Analyzer don't do this though.. wondering where the difference lies (I have not enough knowledge about jsfx coding to have a clue about what could be going on in these jsfx).
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Old 06-12-2021, 05:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
Also the maker of the JSFX that caused this weird pixel checked his code and confirmed that silence should come out if no sound goes through:
Yes, in an external app I thoroughly checked bounces using the Tiny js @44.1 and 96kHz, haven't found a single sample point above/below zero.
Quote:
Things like the Cockos Analyzer don't do this though.. wondering where the difference lies (I have not enough knowledge about jsfx coding to have a clue about what could be going on in these jsfx).
neither do I..
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Old 06-12-2021, 07:10 AM   #28
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What happened to v6.29+dev0610 ?


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Old 06-12-2021, 07:27 AM   #29
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What happened to v6.29+dev0610 ?


Not every day a new build is ready, allow the devs a little time to breathe too
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Old 06-12-2021, 08:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by PhelixK View Post
I also tried a few other js's where the same phenomenon occurs on silent intervals,

js: Phase Rotator (at 0°)
js: Channel Polarity Control (normal)
js: volume adjustment (unity)
js: Automatic Gain Stager (default)

- all above seems to affect waveform drawing, left channel, right or both, and only when showed in Render preview. Doesn't affect the sound or anything, still it triggers the eye as if there's a wrong setting somewhere.

mac Retina or normal HD display.

Only speculation but might be related to denormals.
I've once reported an issue that rendering gets slower and slower when calculating silence (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....65#post2450465) and one common way to fix it is to add a tiny tiny amount of signal I think.
There's also a preference in Reaper "Reduce denormalization from plug-ins" which might affect things (didn't test).
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Old 06-12-2021, 02:13 PM   #31
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Only speculation but might be related to denormals.
I've once reported an issue that rendering gets slower and slower when calculating silence (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....65#post2450465) and one common way to fix it is to add a tiny tiny amount of signal I think.
There's also a preference in Reaper "Reduce denormalization from plug-ins" which might affect things (didn't test).
Thanks for the suggestion. I tested further with +dev 0611, also unchecked the Reduce denormalization preference, but that doesn't change render preview drawing. In any case, as long as the exported sound is unaffected, I'm ok with it.

When running +dev on my Win10 VM installation, I see the same result in render preview where total silence looks to contain extra info on one channel side. This is when using the same js effects that are also causing the issue on macOS.

*Edit, I notice +dev 0612 incude a fix to this issue.

Last edited by PhelixK; 06-12-2021 at 11:12 PM.
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