Old 07-09-2015, 10:41 AM   #1
guitardrummer91
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Default Headphone Mixes

I have searched and couldn't find anything directly related to this, so I apologize if this has been posted before.

I have played around enough to learn the very basics and finally have a setup (I think) that is capable of recording a complete band. My friends want to come over and track a short 5 song demo. I wanted to be able to track everything individually so I can get practice in on mixing rather than setting up with a few mics and recording them "live".

My setup is as follows: Tascam US-1800 Interface and a MacBook running Snow Leopard 10.6.8. I have all the mics and cables to get everything into Reaper.

My question is how can I setup a few if not 4 headphone mixes? I know I would need some sort of headphone amp. The interface has 4 outputs in addition to the stereo output for the reference monitors and the main headphone out on the front of the unit. Is it possible to route everything to get everyone their own mix using "aux" tracks in Reaper? Is this even practical in a "studio" setup? I figure if nothing else I could at least get them a few separate mixes if someone gets picky.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:56 AM   #2
serr
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You can dial up some output buses in Reaper (ie using a track as an aux bus) or use the built-in monitor mixer in your interface.

Understand that if you use Reaper, you will now need to dial in your system for live sound performance + simultaneous recording. You will need to adjust the block size to achieve 11ms or less total system latency so as not to perceive a lag or delay in the monitor.

If that is too much for your current system, plan B should be to use the built-in monitor in your interface. This lets you run with a large block size (eg 1024 samples) because you aren't monitoring through Reaper live and the lag is a moot point.
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:26 PM   #3
guitardrummer91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
You can dial up some output buses in Reaper (ie using a track as an aux bus) or use the built-in monitor mixer in your interface.

Understand that if you use Reaper, you will now need to dial in your system for live sound performance + simultaneous recording. You will need to adjust the block size to achieve 11ms or less total system latency so as not to perceive a lag or delay in the monitor.

If that is too much for your current system, plan B should be to use the built-in monitor in your interface. This lets you run with a large block size (eg 1024 samples) because you aren't monitoring through Reaper live and the lag is a moot point.
Using the monitor on my interface would just achieve one mix correct? I don't think it's that big of a deal I was just curious. I'll have to play around with seeing if my system will handle that. I'm thinking it may be too much though.

How exactly would I route that?
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Old 07-09-2015, 02:38 PM   #4
serr
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Looks like the monitor mix on that interface is limited. Might be enough depending on what you need though.

What Macbook Pro you got? If you have a SSD in it, you might be good for live sound stuff. Might be pushing it otherwise.

I'd route it:
Make a track for each monitor mix you intend to make. Label them "Monitor 1", "Monitor 2", etc
Make sends from any input track you need to hear.

You may want to look up "low latency" and "loopback testing" on the forum here if you want to try that.
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Old 07-09-2015, 04:00 PM   #5
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It's actually just a regular MacBook with a 1TB SSHD drive. It has been a workhorse so far and it hasn't had one bit of hesitation even when I've had 16 tracks going with FX. I'll give it a shot, that's how I had it routed but wasn't sure if it was the best way.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:17 AM   #6
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I have figured this out. Its actually pretty simple, I was just over analyzing it.

I've created two "headphone mix tracks" which receive sends from all instrument tracks. I disable the master send function on both headphone mix tracks. I then set all instrument sends to "pre fader" and select the appropriate hardware outputs (in my case two, 3 & 4 because that's all my interface will allow). Seems to be working flawlessly so far. Looking forward to mixing up a little demo for my pals.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:44 AM   #7
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardrummer91 View Post
I have figured this out. Its actually pretty simple, I was just over analyzing it.

I've created two "headphone mix tracks" which receive sends from all instrument tracks. I disable the master send function on both headphone mix tracks. I then set all instrument sends to "pre fader" and select the appropriate hardware outputs (in my case two, 3 & 4 because that's all my interface will allow). Seems to be working flawlessly so far. Looking forward to mixing up a little demo for my pals.
Yep, there it is. Just like on an analog mixing board.

Yeah, one of the oddities in Reaper is they give you a shortcut for adding a send to the (default) master track in the form of that checkbox. If everything was consistent in labeling/appearance, you would add a send to the default Reaper master just like you would add a send to another track. The checkbox shortcut is somewhat confusing to new users I would think.


Again, monitoring through Reaper means you need your total system latency to be 11ms or less. That means you have to have Reaper setup to run stable at that low latency while mixing plus simultaneously printing the multitrack data to disk. Spend a couple hours going over your system with loopback tests to make sure you have this dialed up and that you know that you aren't pushing anything to the edge and risking losing a recording. (ie. If you get crackles in your recording and/or hear a lag in your monitors - look up low latency and loopback testing on the forum.)

FYI, Understand that that hybrid drive will overall perform at the level of the standard HDD portion of the drive for audio work. The SSD part is used as a buffer and only for small files for various OS cache files and web page browsing activity. If you have trouble with your system keeping up with live sound + recording demands, an actual SSD would in fact be a significant upgrade.

Last edited by serr; 07-13-2015 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:47 PM   #8
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnrUgyfn3Ag

The above video is truly wonderfully helpful... but, with my Scarlett 18i20, I can't seem to get these Headphone submixes to be independent, per line out.

In theory:
headphone mix 1 --> Line Out 3 (mono) - vocalist
headphone mix 2 --> Line Out 4 (mono) - guitar player
headphone mix 3 --> Line Out 5 (mono) - bassist
headphone mix 4 --> Line Out 6 (mono) - keyboardist

I have the Scarlett MixControl set exactly like the above... the Line Out 3 is set to use the Headphone mix 1, Line Out 4 the headphone mix 2, etc...

The whole master/parent thing confuses the crap out of me. When they are disabled (on the headphone mix tracks), I hear nothing, from any of the line outs. When they are enabled, they all blend together per output... so if headphones are plugged into Line Out 3, I'll hear all 4 headphone mixes. Unless I do the master/parent muting thing. Which doesn't help, as I'm tracking a band and they're trying to listen to their own individual mixes, when the track is playing back....

I have to be doing something wrong... but I just don't know where.

Thanks!
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:35 PM   #9
dug dog
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In the video you linked, the monitor sends are being created in Reaper and you are monitoring through Reaper.

I suspect that your interface's Focusrite Control provides direct zero latency monitoring without monitoring through Reaper, in which case, the set-up will be different.

There should be lots of info available about how to set it up.

Are you tracking the entire band at once? If not, then you need only use the headphone outs on the front of the Focus.
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:11 PM   #10
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Ok, I think I got it.

Set the MixControl to "Mixing" and voila. Everything works.

NOTE: the headphone mixes are just for listening purposes... can't track while in this mode (obviously)

The Routing Matrix must have all master/parent sends disabled. Fully. But for listening in the front headphone jacks, the Routing Matrix must have Line Out 7, 8, 9 and 10 enabled, but not on the master/parent... AND down further, in the Mono section. I'll take a screenshot.
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