Old 12-06-2012, 09:05 AM   #81
mikael
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To my mind, the ability to resize and move items in the midi selector is quite distracting and make the selector functionnality more confusing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
+ MIDI: allow pasting of MIDI events directly in arrange view (adds item, or pastes in existing item)
Copy paste midi in arrange is really great !
But it is sometimes buggy, the midi is not pasted, only the cursor advance.
If pasting in the arrange at the exact end of an item, it create a new one, it could be smarter and extend and paste in the item, now it is nessecery to dbl click item, set the cursor position in the ME, and paste ).
I hope that copy/paste will also work with multiple item (like ctrl+drag), maybe not in the arrange, but at least in the ME.


While trying to create a CTRL+D custom action for duplicating midi in time ( i think this could be a default behaviour, copy;move cursor inside the next measure;paste preserving position )
I found that actions that move cursor outside item boundary are broken ! ( move by one measure for example )


Moving the cursor in ME should work by clicking in the grayed part ( outside item boudary )


Adding a new "button/indicator" on the item that are editable in the main arrange should be a good to make things more obvious.


When trying to move a note on pooled item, in certain case, I have to click note twice before the note can be moved.
It does not seem to happen on the last pool item instance in the arrange, but i cant find the exact way to reproduce.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:07 AM   #82
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Bug in item edge snapping:

Item edge is not snapped to grid when edge is adjusted in MIDI selector.

Bug in MIDI selector's mini-TCP names:

Track names and numbers disappear when changing active item.
Track names and numbers appear again after clicking note area.
Sometimes the mini-TCP track area is completely cleared (even the gray track boxes disappear), but I'm not yet able to reproduce that.

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Last edited by jnif; 12-06-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:34 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
I've tested this with the x64 version of Reaper and the x64 version of VLC, and it works.

Remove the FFMPEG libraries in your Reaper installation folder, except of course for the free one that comes with Reaper itself.

Grab and install VLC, with the installer.
http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vlc/last/

Start Reaper, drop a video in to the timeline, check the source properties and it should say VLC there.
which are the FFMPEG libraries?
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:58 AM   #84
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I don't like the new look of note and CC bar edges in the active MIDI item.
The notes are thicker than the inactive notes. And the transparent line in the bottom and right edges of notes make the overall look kind of busy.

Maybe there should be just thin solid black line around the active item's notes and CC bars. And the active notes should be the same size as the inactive notes. Like this:


EDIT:
Looks like the default note edge appearance in Reaper is almost identical to the above screenshot.
However, I was somehow able to make Reaper look like this:

Is this a bug or what?
It happens when I change track color and then select 'Track' or 'Media item' in the MIDI editor's Color menu.

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Last edited by jnif; 12-06-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:58 AM   #85
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a bug with "MIDI editor: optional support for extending media items left or right when moving notes with the mouse" enabled


[IMG]http://img545.**************/img545/9185/midi1.gif[/IMG]

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Old 12-06-2012, 10:17 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
which are the FFMPEG libraries?
The files you may have installed from the archives mentioned in the blue link below. I did not refer to the FFMPEG library that comes with Reaper and only supports open and free formats.

If you never installed any external FFMPEG library, just install VLC (32-bit for 32-bit version, etc.). Works well so far.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:17 AM   #87
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The note look like this if the color dropdown is set to "track" or "item".
It looks like a temporary color debug setting...
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:18 AM   #88
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I still see these drawing and moving anomalies when Loop source is selected.



Gofer reported the same already with pre1, but maybe I misundestood that this would also apply to stock version, which I was not able to reproduce. Meaning, I only get this anomaly with these pres.
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=88


Extending the item in MIDI Navigator/Selector, occasionally there seems to be an invisible border over which I cannot draw new notes in ME.
edit: restart didn't do it, but crash did...works now?



Extending the item manually in ME fixes this partially, but I'm still not necessarily able to extend the item further by drawing/dragging, unless I'll extend the item edge manually several times and/or move the notes around. Same as with previous pres.

https://i.imgur.com/MF6oX.gif

Last edited by xpander; 12-07-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:23 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
The files you may have installed from the archives mentioned in the blue link below. I did not refer to the FFMPEG library that comes with Reaper and only supports open and free formats.

If you never installed any external FFMPEG library, just install VLC (32-bit for 32-bit version, etc.). Works well so far.
yes, where are these files located? I HAVE installed them.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:46 AM   #90
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Wow,
I wish I had this a while back.

I think the new navigator is actually a pretty good idea. It takes care of so many issues at once.

The filtering becomes instananeous.

I reality, when I am doing rapid-fire editing, I want my edits to be constrained to a single track (as opposed to item), until I make a conscious effort to switch tracks.

Maybe it can already be done?
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #91
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I like the functionality of the track selector too. It'S resizable so it occupies relative screen real-estate.
What I'd like though, is the option to hide the MIDI transport. All those thing can be accessed with keyboard shortcuts or toolbar buttons. It would leave at least one supplementary row .

And As ED did mention, there's something in the top right corner of the ME that should actually reside in that MIDI transport/grid/track/etc bar. Just to leave the MIDI toolbar only for MIDI action buttons.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:05 AM   #92
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Bug in MIDI selector:
MIDI editor will unexpectedly close when selecting "Display only this item in MIDI editor" if the item is already the active item.

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Old 12-06-2012, 11:29 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
# MIDI editor: draw secondary notes differently when editable
There is still problem when selecting notes in editable secondary items. Here is an example of orchestral MIDI editing:

See how the selected notes in bars 10-11 are only barely visible.
I think it would be better to draw note borders of selected notes with more visible color.

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Old 12-06-2012, 11:45 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
And As ED did mention, there's something in the top right corner of the ME that should actually reside in that MIDI transport/grid/track/etc bar. Just to leave the MIDI toolbar only for MIDI action buttons.
Yes, Channel selector (and note value/position display) could well reside at bottom right like envisioned few times earlier.

Jnif, I can confirm the disappearing track names in Navigator/Selector, as well as the snapping glitch in Selector when adjusting the edge. Here it seems to snap sometimes, not always.

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Originally Posted by jnif View Post
MIDI editor will unexpectedly close when selecting "Display only this item in MIDI editor" if the item is already the active item.
Yes, Gofer got this also, but it does indeed seem to close only if already active item is selected for display.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:56 AM   #95
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Default MIDI note size in arrange edit

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet or encountered:

I've just created three blank MIDI items in a new project and then opened them and filled them with random notes. I've noticed that the first item has LARGER notes upon opening them inline than the others. This has nothing to do with the zoom feature. It was just default. I like the large size. Good on the eyes.

PPC Leo 10.5

AFTERWORD: Can't repeat this. Although there seems to be a natural bias in the piano roll size for some MIDI items. ie. some have notes/keys with a greater vertical height than others.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:02 PM   #96
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Re: Midi pasting.

Seeing as how you can copy random notes from the ME and paste them directly to an arrange track or clip, how much of a reach would it be to just do that directly?

Select some notes, ID a destination clip or track from a list, whatever, and "move" them, which would really just be an automated cut/paste operation?

Source: Selected Notes
Destination: Selected Clip / Track
Trigger: Move the notes on the "destination selection" above.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:07 PM   #97
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Bugs in marquee selection in MIDI selector:


1. Marquee selection does not work at all if marquee drag ends outside selector lane.
2. Marquee selection is inaccurate. Some items that are inside marquee are not selected. This seems to happen at the upper edge of the marquee. And some items that are outside marquee are selected. This seems to happen at the lower edge of the marquee.
3. Selector lane is not scrolled when marquee is drawn outside the lane edge.

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:08 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Select some notes, ID a destination clip or track from a list, whatever, and "move" them, which would really just be an automated cut/paste operation?

Source: Selected Notes
Destination: Selected Clip / Track
Trigger: Move the notes on the "destination selection" above.
As an action you mean? To the start of the destination item, same position in measure < selectable, maybe?

--

Moving bugs:
Moving MIDI items in Selector seems to work only within the same track they were already residing in. While doing this, other items might get pushed down to other tracks. Moving items in Arrange, the moves don't update correctly in Selector. Adjanced items (in same track) might show up in totally different places. Mwe reported similar in post #24.

Last edited by xpander; 12-06-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:18 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqkychair View Post
I want my edits to be constrained to a single track (as opposed to item), until I make a conscious effort to switch tracks.

Maybe it can already be done?
ooohh , answering my own question, you can lasso the whole track in the navigator, turn off edit inactive and THERE YOU GO! Track based editing!

This is very close, folks. A couple simple buttons over on the track label for selecting all items in track and we are in business.

Big props to schwa and the devs for this!!!
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:41 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
As an action you mean? To the start of the destination item, same position in measure < selectable, maybe?
Yeah, pretty much. You just need a way to identify the destination from the key editor. It could be a pop-up list, whatever, but as soon as you click the destination the selected notes get moved there (cut and pasted there).

Same position or relative position from clip start or as a new clip on the destination track.

The other example I showed some time ago allows dragging midi notes directly from the key editor to arrange to make new clips from them. That works pretty well for certain edits.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by jnif View Post
1. The item selection should be separate from the visibility/editability/activation properties. User should be able to first select multiple items in the "Selector" and after that decide what he wants to do with those selected items, i.e. make them visible/invisible/editable/ineditable/active/etc.
Answering to my own comment.
After testing the MIDI selector a bit more, I'm not sure about my previous proposal anymore.

It feels quite OK that item editability is directly linked to item selection.

However, there are some bugs related to this in the MIDI selector:

1. At time 0:06 I marquee select with Alt modifier. Thus, it will hide the items within the marquee. But the problem is that those items stay still selected. This is confusing because selected items should be editable. And hidden items can't be edited (which is kind of obvious and OK). The hidden items should be automatically unselected.
2. Alt marquee selection in MIDI selector lane will change time/loop selection.

There is also need to have a method to make items visible without selecting them, i.e. without making them editable.
Alt modifier click/marquee could be used for both hiding and showing items.

jnif

Last edited by jnif; 12-06-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:02 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael View Post
Copy paste midi in arrange is really great !
But it is sometimes buggy, the midi is not pasted, only the cursor advance.
Are you sure you didn't have a different track selected off screen as reaper will paste to the selected track rather than the original.

I wish when you had no tracks selected it would paste to the track you copied it from
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:06 PM   #103
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Quote:
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Regarding the current proliferation of ways to choose what is displayed in the MIDI editor -- that's what we are trying to fix. A simple, visual way to make these selections can take the place of the MIDI filter window (which only shows the media items you have already loaded into the editor) or the Contents menu (which shows everything in the project, but is cumbersome to use).
I hope this does not mean that the new navigator/selector lane will be replacing the contents menu. Both the selector lane and the contents menu can be useful at different times or in different circumstances.

I respect the fact that many will find the new selector lane useful, but likewise there must be others (like me) who often might prefer not to display this lane (to save real estate) and are quite content to use the contents menu to make an item active. Keep its display optional.

Indeed, that menu is pretty handy - for example I like the fact that you can use it to open up additional items into the MIDI Editor.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:08 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqkychair View Post
A couple simple buttons over on the track label for selecting all items in track and we are in business
Why not just doubleclick the track header to do that, exactly as in TCP?
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Why not just doubleclick the track header to do that, exactly as in TCP?
Yes, please, that would be nice.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:23 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Why not just doubleclick the track header to do that, exactly as in TCP?
I would prefer a button which would show also the state of selection/editability. States like:
A. No items selected/editable
B. Some items selected/editable
C. All items selected/editable

Normal click of that button would select all items on that track.
Shift click could deselect all.

Similar button with state display is needed for visibility control of all items on track.

And those buttons are also better than double click actions because you can swipe multiple buttons with single mouse drag.

Of course double click on track number could work also as "select all items on track", just like in TCP, to keep the features consistent. But that is not enough in the MIDI selector.

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Old 12-06-2012, 01:31 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
I would prefer a button which would show also the state of selection/editability. States like:
A. No items selected/editable
B. Some items selected/editable
C. All items selected/editable

Normal click of that button would select all items on that track.
Shift click could deselect all.

Similar button with state display is needed for visibility control of all items on track.

And those buttons are also better than double click actions because you can swipe multiple buttons with single mouse drag.

Of course double click on track number could work also as "select all items on track", just like in TCP, to keep the features consistent. But that is not enough in the MIDI selector.

jnif
That sounds like it's meant for the Filter section to me.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:35 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Bugs in marquee selection in MIDI selector:


1. Marquee selection does not work at all if marquee drag ends outside selector lane.
2. Marquee selection is inaccurate. Some items that are inside marquee are not selected. This seems to happen at the upper edge of the marquee. And some items that are outside marquee are selected. This seems to happen at the lower edge of the marquee.
3. Selector lane is not scrolled when marquee is drawn outside the lane edge.

jnif
Sorry for the maybe dumb question, but how do I Marquee-select in the Navigator/Midi Selector?
Which mouse-modifiers apply to the Navigator in the preferences?
All I get is time-selection when dragging.

thanx Wolfger
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:36 PM   #109
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I agree on both counts...meaning, I could use them in Selector too, but having them in Filter wouldn't be bad either. Double-click on track number to select all is a must for consistency though.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:39 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
That sounds like it's meant for the Filter section to me.
It is needed in MIDI selector lane and in MIDI filter window.
There is going to be lot of feature overlap between all the different solutions used for controlling visible/editable/active items in MIDI editor. If the devs can't find one solution that could be good for most of the typical workflows then I hope they will develop multiple completed features. Not multiple incomplete features.

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Old 12-06-2012, 01:42 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgerb View Post
Sorry for the maybe dumb question, but how do I Marquee-select in the Navigator/Midi Selector?
Which mouse-modifiers apply to the Navigator in the preferences?
All I get is time-selection when dragging.

thanx Wolfger
ok, can answer my own question: it´s right-click drag over here.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:58 PM   #112
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just checking this out now. Havent read all the thread and feedback, though to me it it seems a shame to lose the CC editor view for the navigator. Maybe that's still in flux, though it seems to me that not having access to the CC lane in order to access the navigator almost defeats the purpose. Maybe this has come up already......

edit: personally i'd rather see it at as a toolbar or the ability to dock it at the top or something
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Double-click on track number to select all is a must for consistency though.
I agree.

Still it is interesting to see where the devs and users will draw the line regarding consistency.
You could argue that many more features of TCP and arrange view should be copied to MIDI selector because of consistency.

It requires lot of work because it looks like the MIDI selector is implemented from scratch, not by copying the arrange view+TCP. For example, the items are already editable (move items or item edges) in MIDI selector. But the behaviour is not consistent with arrange view. For example item edges of grouped items are not adjusted together when they are co-located. They should because of consistency.

Let's see how this pans out.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:03 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwok View Post
just checking this out now. Havent read all the thread and feedback, though to me it it seems a shame to lose the CC editor view for the navigator. Maybe that's still in flux, though it seems to me that not having access to the CC lane in order to access the navigator almost defeats the purpose. Maybe this has come up already......

edit: personally i'd rather see it at as a toolbar or the ability to dock it at the top or something
You can access both at the same time. You can have CC lane and Navigator/selector lane on top of each other.

However, the way how the navigator is currently opened using the CC lane's dorpdown menu feels wrong to me. The MIDI navigator/selector has very little in common with CC lanes. So it should be a completely separate element of the MIDI editor user interface.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:10 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
You can access both at the same time. You can have CC lane and Navigator/selector lane on top of each other.

However, the way how the navigator is currently opened using the CC lane's dorpdown menu feels wrong to me. The MIDI navigator/selector has very little in common with CC lanes. So it should be a completely separate element of the MIDI editor user interface.

jnif
right - duh.......

ya, Id way rather see it treated like a toolbar, dockable in position of choice, or even floating maybe
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:14 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
However, the way how the navigator is currently opened using the CC lane's dorpdown menu feels wrong to me. The MIDI navigator/selector has very little in common with CC lanes. So it should be a completely separate element of the MIDI editor user interface.
As long as the MIDI Navigator does show at the bottom like CC lanes, there's some sense in opening it from bottom left too. Still, I agree there should prolly be an option to open it from the view menu and an action/shortcut too, like suggested earlier.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:14 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Are you sure you didn't have a different track selected off screen as reaper will paste to the selected track rather than the original.

I wish when you had no tracks selected it would paste to the track you copied it from
I investigate this a little more, and found that it seem to be linked to loop source.
- Create a new midi item with loop source enable
- Open ME, fill the item from start to end with notes.
- Copy all the notes and paste, continue pasting, the cursor advance but you dont see nothing else happening ( cause the pasted notes are layered on the same position, and the item does not extend itself ).

Pasting in loop source item has alwas been strange, it's make no sense to loop paste action in the item itself ... and more if the loop source is not used in the arrange.
At least an option for stop cursor at the end of loop sourced items ( and alert ) if the loop pasting is used for someone.

About navigation and zoom, I was searching for a marqee zoom mouse modifier for the ME ( not in the selector ), but dont find anything, would be a very good addition.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:51 PM   #118
gwok
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I'm using a Wacom tablet, and clicking on items in the midi navigator makes them move. its like they are hypersensitive, as items in the TCP arrange never behave with this erraticism
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:58 PM   #119
musicbynumbers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwok View Post
I'm using a Wacom tablet, and clicking on items in the midi navigator makes them move. its like they are hypersensitive, as items in the TCP arrange never behave with this erraticism
I get this too with my wacom. Us wacom users could really do with a proper mode for knobs too!

I like others think that there should probably be an option or a modifier to make items movable and have this of as default.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:59 PM   #120
medicine tactic
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I don't have much time, but here are some quick thoughts:

First of all, thanks for all your hard work, and all the promising new stuff; And thanks for the tiny items bugfix!

I love pasting events into the arrange view. It's a great way to fork off chunks of events without having to perform item surgery.

I tentatively like the selector lane a lot. I can see how the filter's vertical track list and the horizontal selector lane form a Cartesian-ish addressing system for selecting and activating items. I'd like the UI to make it more apparent that the two are intended to be used in conjunction like that, whatever that comes to mean. And vertical zoom and mouse scrolling in the selector lane would be much appreciated, too.

The selector lane is a place to hang *tons* of functionality off of. It sort of turns REAPER inside out, emphasizing the ME and marginalizing the arrange view, making it much easier to live in the ME. Serious workflow potential.

Although, while I like the idea of generic lanes that can do lots of different stuff (psst, automation! lane-sets!), I'm not sure if a CC-type lane is the right final home for the selector lane.

Thanks again. More soon.

Last edited by medicine tactic; 12-06-2012 at 04:45 PM. Reason: navigator -> selector
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