Old 02-07-2013, 09:47 AM   #1
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Default v4.33pre (Post only about Stretch Markers)

Quote:
v4.33pre12 - February 13 2013
+ API: added GetTrackDepth function
+ Video: Fix for incorrect framerate detection when using VLC decoding
+ Timestretch: updated to elastique 2.25


v4.33pre11 - February 11 2013
+ Editing behavior: default ctrl+C/ctrl+X behaviors now ignore time selection, use shift+ctrl+C/shift+ctrl+X to copy or cut respecting time selection
# Stretch markers: transient mode fixes
# Stretch markers: mouse map editing mode for moving marker preserving left hand rate
# MIDI editor track list: when initially opening multiple media items, only items on the clicked track are editable
# MIDI editor track list: don't display inactive takes

v4.33pre10 - February 10 2013
# Timestretch: elastique flushing support overhaul
# Stretch markers: option (project, take) for transient vs tonal behaviors
# MIDI editor track list: more refinements to automatic mode
# SoundTouch: supported flushing for optimize-transient mode (though ST ends up producing silence in these instances)
# MIDI editor: fixed editing multiple pooled MIDI events at once

v4.33pre9 - February 9 2013
# MIDI editor: fixed marquee select bug with multiple media items
+ ReWire: enabled ReWire options in preferences for 64-bit
# Stretch markers: limit max stretch value to 0.02x rather than 0.1x
# MIDI editor track list: renamed basic mode to automatic mode, made behaviors more automatic

v4.33pre8 - February 9 2013
+ Video: added WebM output format support when using FFmpeg/LibAV
+ Video: added latest LibAV (0.9.x) support
# Stretch markers: improved grouped-marker editing behavior with multiple markers at a particular time
# Stretch markers: mouse modifier support for ripple edits
# Stretch markers: removing first/last stretch markers will no longer recreate edge stretch markers
# Stretch markers: prevent creating effective rates of less than 0.1, which often would fail

v4.33pre7 - February 8 2013
# Stretch markers: draw edge on stretch marker triangles
+ MIDI editor: added mouse modifiers to move/copy selected notes by dragging in the piano roll (no need to click the note again)
# MIDI editor track list: distilled options down to "basic mode" and "extended mode"
# Stretch markers: better drawing of overlapping markers
# Stretch markers: better alt+click removal logic
# Stretch markers: ctrl+alt+shift to adjust pair of stretch markers
# Stretch markers: mouse map support with additional editing modes
# Stretch markers: quality issue fix [thx Janne83]
+ API: added functions to get media item track, parent tracks
# Stretch markers: added locking support, better interaction with locking system
+ Locking: improved granularity for item locking, fixes
# MIDI editor track list: folder tracks can be selected

v4.33pre6a - February 7 2013
# MIDI track list: fixed recarm, mute, solo options
# MIDI track list: avoid crash when deleting active media item
# Stretch markers: disabled snap-to-1.0-rate code as it made editing uncomfortable
# MIDI editor: fixed moving notes up/down with multiple media items editable
+ Dynamic split: correctly detect take start offset/playrate changes
# MIDI track list: fixed editable/lock button behavior

v4.33pre6 - February 7 2013
# MIDI editor: added table_locked_on, table_locked_off theme images
# MIDI editor track list: selection is mirrored to arrange view by default but can be changed
# MIDI editor track list: editability is linked to selection by default but can be changed
# MIDI editor track list: new behavior options and context menu
+ Stretch markers: change the timing of items using convenient handles
# Stretch markers: alt+click stretch markers to remove, alt+drag to adjust underlying audio position
# Stretch markers: see Item/Stretch markers menu, (ctrl/cmd)+alt click audio items to add stretch markers
+ Dynamic split: support for creating stretch markers rather than splitting
+ Timestretch: support for larger time expansion/compression values
# Timestretch: (note however pitch may not always be able to be preserved, depending on the algorithm used

v4.33pre5 - February 1 2013
# MIDI editor: fixed crashes when using project bay preview while MIDI editor is open
+ JS: code generation cleanups
+ OSX: fixed joystick support on i386
# MIDI editor: swapped UI for active and editable media items
+ MIDI editor: theme image for media item bounds (midi_item_bounds.png)

v4.33pre4 - January 31 2013
+ ReaSurround: fixed state loading on PPC
# MIDI track list: update properly on changing track mute/solo
# MIDI editor media item lane: fixed snap when adjusting media item edges
# MIDI editor: right-click on piano keyboard to select pitch supports multiple media items
# MIDI editor: transpose actions support multiple media items
# MIDI editor: actions to move notes left/right support multiple media items

v4.33pre3 - January 31 2013
# Video: QT/Fix for MP3 decoding when using bridged mode
# MIDI editor track list: alt key toggles preference to clear editor when changing selection
# MIDI editor track list: prevent items from being selected but not visible
+ OSX: improved peaks reading performance (fixed mmap file reads)
# MIDI editor: refinements to behavior when changing media item selection and visibility
# MIDI editor: Theme colors for piano roll background outside the media item
+ MIDI editor: display the time selection outside the active media item
# MIDI editor: transpose support for multiple media items
# MIDI editor: humanize support for multiple media items
+ MIDI Editor: quantize support for multiple media items

v4.33pre3 - January 25 2013
# MIDI editor: fixed behavior when automatically extending media items
# MIDI editor: fixed deleting notes in multiple media items
# MIDI editor track list: right-click to set random colors
+ MIDI editor: draw time selection outside the media item bounds
+ MIDI editor: theme colors for out-of-bounds piano roll

v4.33pre2 - January 24 2013
+ OSC: fixed FX parameter feedback for some ReaPlugs
+ MIDI editor: fixed editor sometimes opening undocked when it should be docked
# MIDI editor track list: enable activating by track if the track holds only one MIDI media item
# MIDI editor track list: fixed disappearing track list
# MIDI editor track list: always show track numbers
# MIDI editor: support for mouse-deleting notes from multiple media items
# MIDI editor track list: support for mouse-sweeping some columns

v4.33pre1 - January 22 2013
+ Video: improved QuickTime audio decoding
+ OSX: Improved cursor behavior when mouseover on nonfocused windows
+ MIDI track list: shift+click expands/collapses folders or track items
+ MIDI media item lane and track list: shift+ or alt+ click controls whether switching the active media item clears the editor first (optional)
+ MIDI editor: filter window now filters only MIDI events, not media items
+ MIDI editor: media items that are visible and selected may also be edited
+ MIDI editor: track list and media item lane control which media item is active, which others are visible
+ MIDI editor: new track list and media item lane, and theme elements
+ Multiprocessing: improved anticipative FX with sends to tracks that use PDC [t=113560]
...and let me say...STRETCH MARKERS!!!!!!!!!!

- Mario
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:58 AM   #2
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This is one of the things Ive been waiting for a long time. Thanks devs. With this addition I can finally ditch Logic completely and move to PC side.



Just to report: The dynamic split transient detection is completely messed up on OSX version (64bit):



Regards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:01 AM   #3
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Oh my god strech markers are...... GREAT!
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:08 AM   #4
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WHOA DUDE!

That's going to make a lot of people happy!

Please can you consider the ability to group multiple items (on the same track) together in such a way that they can be edited, stretched etc as if they were one item.

This would only take you adding a "relative" edit mouse modifier so that we can grab the right edge of the last item in a group and stretch them relatively.

This would be a massive help!

The other thing would be editable folders on the folder tracks that represent all the contained items.

This way we could say edit multitrack drums just on the collapsed folder.

These would make a massive difference for lots of work methods including the game /media industry!

p.s. thanks again!
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janne83 View Post
Just to report: The dynamic split transient detection is completely messed up on OSX version (64bit)
This seems to be working here. Does it display the same incorrect split points if you close and reopen the dynamic split window?
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabian View Post
+ Stretch markers: change the timing of items using convenient handles
# Stretch markers: alt+click stretch markers to remove, alt+drag to adjust underlying audio position
# Stretch markers: see Item/Stretch markers menu, (ctrl/cmd)+alt click audio items to add stretch markers
+ Dynamic split: support for creating stretch markers rather than splitting
+ Timestretch: support for larger time expansion/compression values
# Timestretch: (note however pitch may not always be able to be preserved, depending on the algorithm used)
Man! This is awesome :rollingeyes:
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:31 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This seems to be working here. Does it display the same incorrect split points if you close and reopen the dynamic split window?
Yep youre right Schwa it must have been some glitch. I restarted my computer and now work as It should. Thanks for the input.

Regards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:41 AM   #8
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The other thing for stretch markers would be a "beats mode" that would not stretch transients and either just timestretch the sustain parts (ignoring the first few milliseconds of each transient) or even better would be to have what ableton, logic and a few others have which is to have the sustain parts loop back and forth continuously until the next transient/stretch marker is reached.

Anyway. Will be testing for bugs when I have time. Thanks again!
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
The other thing for stretch markers would be a "beats mode" that would not stretch transients and either just timestretch the sustain parts (ignoring the first few milliseconds of each transient) or even better would be to have what ableton, logic and a few others have which is to have the sustain parts loop back and forth continuously until the next transient/stretch marker is reached.

Anyway. Will be testing for bugs when I have time. Thanks again!
Im sure this options will come with extensions, just like the extended fill gaps option with the same transient and sustain separation. On the other hand the repeating material options in logic are a glitchy unusable disaster. (special the rythmic and slicing mode) I mostly used the complex polyphonic mode (even for multitrack drums)-it produced the best results

Regards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:59 AM   #10
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+100, Mercado.

"Stretch Markers" topic needs a lots of discussions, imo.

its a very very nice start, but accuracy wise its not quite there yet, imo.
(its play position dependent, no transient care system, no pooled/ghost items just to name a few)

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janne83 View Post
Im sure this options will come with extensions, just like the extended fill gaps option with the same transient and sustain separation. On the other hand the repeating material options in logic are a glitchy unusable disaster. (special the rythmic and slicing mode) I mostly used the complex polyphonic mode (even for multitrack drums)-it produced the best results

Regards J
You have a point there! they're not bad for speeding up but pretty crap for slowing down. Quite interesting for sound design though

Ideally I would love being able to group stretch a grouped set of items BUT in such a way that only there start points are moved and the item stays at it's original length.

I have lots of uses for things like this, Especially in sound design. The ability to manipulate a group of items as if they were on item but without stretching is quite useful.

Will find time to illustrate this for the Devs eyes!
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:18 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
You have a point there! they're not bad for speeding up but pretty crap for slowing down. Quite interesting for sound design though

Ideally I would love being able to group stretch a grouped set of items BUT in such a way that only there start points are moved and the item stays at it's original length.

I have lots of uses for things like this, Especially in sound design. The ability to manipulate a group of items as if they were on item but without stretching is quite useful.

Will find time to illustrate this for the Devs eyes!
Yes I agree the more options the better for different workflows.
For your idea there is an option in logic with the marque selection, You can move/select multiple markers at a time and move them altogether. I would love to see this options here also.

Im really happy to see this addition and Elastique works very nicely.

Regards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:20 AM   #13
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I haven't tried yet but hopefully adding in stretch markers will allow us to slow down and speed up audio using tempo markers now without weird results?
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #14
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"Stretch markers" needs its name changed - it's uncomfortably close to "stretch marks".
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:24 AM   #15
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thanx a lot, stretch markers work great for multitrack drum quantize!!!
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
"Stretch markers" needs its name changed - it's uncomfortably close to "stretch marks".
agreed
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #17
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Another report:

Ocassionally there is a glitch appearing on the spot where the stretch marker is (on playback and render, regardless on changing algorithms).

Its similar to the glitches that were cause by the take pitch envelope points (this was fixed some time ago I think)


OSX 64 and 32 bit. Regards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:05 PM   #18
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ReaStretch?
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:12 PM   #19
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+ Dynamic split: support for creating stretch markers rather than splitting
Oh my, that's just lovely.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 PM   #20
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Doesn't have to be called 'marker'.

Stretch points. Add a stretch point.

Functional, non snazzy. No glitz or marketing pzazz.
Will last the ages ...


On topic, once I'm done stretching I'd like to be able to hide the stretch points...
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:33 PM   #21
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Nice. Elastic audio.

This cryptic comment has new meaning...

Quote:
Working on a cool inevitable feature for REAPER at the moment. Trying to keep my function size down...
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:36 PM   #22
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any chance to see a "prevent trasnient" system with stretch marker?

Could be a lot more usable for drums editing
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:38 PM   #23
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any chance to see a "prevent trasnient" system with stretch marker?

Could be a lot more usable for drums editing
Agree. You kinda have to wrap transients to protect them. But it's early so...
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Agree. You kinda have to wrap transients to protect them. But it's early so...
I know it's early and it's a big challenge for devs... especially when group tracks is enable, because phase relation between a direct mic (exemple KIK IN) and the associated ROOM mic (or OH) should be the same after streching...

so the "window" size that protect transient (if any) should be considered AS GROUP BASE and not ITEM BASE...

Devs, you're just jumped in a HUGE FEATURE
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
how do you remove a stretch mark?
I think they sell lotion, but I've heard it doesn't work very well.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
how do you remove a stretch mark?
Send her to the gym?

As a side note, you'll have to be able to marquee select markers and not the clip at some later point, but I like the general design so far.

Two of (arguably) the 3 all time biggest FR's being worked on, mUlti-midi and elastic audio. If area selection pops into the pre I might have a cardiac arrest.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
how do you remove a stretch mark?
Alt+click.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:54 PM   #28
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stretch markers?! happy effing birthday, Reaperites!
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:03 PM   #29
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If area selection pops into the pre I might have a cardiac arrest.
That would round it off nicely wouldn't it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janne83 View Post
Yes I agree the more options the better for different workflows.
For your idea there is an option in logic with the marque selection, You can move/select multiple markers at a time and move them altogether. I would love to see this options here also.

Im really happy to see this addition and Elastique works very nicely.

Regards J
That would be nice BUT I would love to see these functions extended to a grouped item so we can still do all the cool item based manipulation (like separate fx, volume, reverse and pitch) but have the benefits of "warp/stretch markers".

My main wish is to stretch a group of items without the indiviual items actually timestretching. All that will move is their relative start positions. This is very useful and we have actions for this (to fit the items to time selection) but want to see this happen without the items rate being adjusted.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:39 PM   #31
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but are stretch markers audio only? would really like to use them on midi items as well... could possible save some timebase headaches...
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by PooFox View Post
but are stretch markers audio only? would really like to use them on midi items as well... could possible save some timebase headaches...
only after audio folks get the swing/shuffle GRID.

:P

(j/k)

Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
I'm not crazy about the triangle on either side of stretch markers indicating stretched or compressed. Looks kind of cluttered.

+1

and stretch info is kinda invisible here
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:48 PM   #33
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pre6a still randomly produces glitches(can be heard as clicks) on stretch marker/transient positions when the rate is different than 1. Ive tried different recordings and different algorithms and they all click at some points on playback and render.

On MacOSX 64 and 32 bit
Example:

https://stash.reaper.fm/15432/StretchmarkerClicks.mp3

Regards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Janne83 View Post
pre6a still randomly produces glitches(can be heard as clicks) on stretch marker/transient positions when the rate is different than 1. Ive tried different recordings and different algorithms and they all click at some points on playback and render.

On MacOSX 64 and 32 bit
Example:

https://stash.reaper.fm/15432/StretchmarkerClicks.mp3

Regards J
we have no "transient care", nor "ramp care" yet, these stretchmarkers are just a diff "view" of what we already had by split, (select) and stretch "both sides". but this time probably without any crossfades at the markers

FYI : stretchmarkers are NOT wysiwyg. check it by glue/render a stretched media and compare.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:55 PM   #35
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we have no "transient care", nor "ramp care" yet, these stretchmarkers are just a diff "view" of what we already had by split, (select) and stretch "both sides". but this time probably without any crossfades at the markers

FYI : stretchmarkers are NOT wysiwyg. check it by glue/render a stretched media and compare.
THe cut and stretched option does not produce any clicks if there are crossfaded.

If this is the case as you say than the stretchmarkers are useless.

regards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:02 PM   #36
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THe cut and stretched option does not produce any clicks if there are crossfaded.

If this is the case as you say than the stretchmarkers are useless.

regards J
I'd say it's way too early to make that determination. Obviously, on release they should not produce any artifacts like that, so my assumption is that they won't.

I think first they have to get all the functional parts going and then test more of what it actually sounds like when you use it, or a little bit of both at the same time.

I would assume stretch markers are kind of "alpha" at this stage?
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:05 PM   #37
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I'd say it's way too early to make that determination. Obviously, on release they should not produce any artifacts like that, so my assumption is that they won't.

I think first they have to get all the functional parts going and then test more of what it actually sounds like when you use it, or a little bit of both at the same time.
Youre right. I was replying to Beatybits post.

This doesnt happen in S1 and Logic, so it shouldnt here either.Im just reporting this.

J
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:14 PM   #38
beatbybit
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THe cut and stretched option does not produce any clicks if there are crossfaded.
IF they are crossfaded (or at least short fade i/os applied). right.

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Originally Posted by Janne83 View Post
If this is the case as you say than the stretchmarkers are useless.

regards J
:/ not useful for me as is, thats all i dare to say.
but hey, its "just" a prerelease.. i have hope
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:17 PM   #39
musicbynumbers
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I had an idea to probably solve the transient thing.

If we can have a mouse modifier to "lock" a stretch marker to a rate of 1: up to the the marker so that if we then warp stuff around the transients would be unaffected.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:18 PM   #40
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I had an idea to probably solve the transient thing.

If we can have a mouse modifier to "lock" a stretch marker to a rate of 1: up to the the marker so that if we then warp stuff around the transients would be unaffected.
its all said and heard already (since years) - its up to Cockos (and/or zPlane?) now.
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