Old 02-07-2013, 02:40 PM   #41
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Hi Devs, and thanks for the stretch functions, it's a really good start but needs some work.

Here are a few ideas.

1. An action to warp a selected item by grid, meaning to add stretch markers to every transient or grid division with one click.

2. I think the stretch markers should have their own pop up panel with stretch options on.

3. Change the name stretch marks sounds weird. ReaStretch as Evil Dragon said or something similar.

4. The ability to move markers position with re-stretching the audio, this will help tighten up marker points.

5. To be able to change the pitch of each point by semitones, this will be great for changing notes in melodies.

6. Better quantise and groove options for stretched items.

7. The ability to toggle markers on or off, to preview with or without.

8. Items that are stretched should maybe have a different tint and maybe better colours for markers, but I guess you will be able to edit this in the theme settings.

9. To be able to change the speed of a stretched item by either x2 speed or half speed and so on.

Good work though guys really good to see this added at last.

Would be great to see item automation and pattern or clip player like ableton in the future..

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Old 02-07-2013, 02:45 PM   #42
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Haha. You guys are killing me... as in making my belly hurt from laughing.

"Stretch Marker" is a weird name but "ReaStretch Marker" isn't?

Flex. Flex Marker.
Bend. Bend Marker.
Warp. Warp Marker
ReaStretch. ReaStretch Marker?

At least it's consistent with Reaper's tendency to use elongated terminology.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:49 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Haha. You guys are killing me... as in making my belly hurt from laughing.

"Stretch Marker" is a weird name but "ReaStretch Marker" isn't?

Flex. Flex Marker.
Bend. Bend Marker.
Warp. Warp Marker
ReaStretch. ReaStretch Marker.

At least it's consistent with Reaper's tendency to use elongated terminology.

Yeah I am laughing to Flex Audio is good
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:51 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by gofer View Post
I agree with separating threads for MIDI editor and stretch. But I'm admittedly too tired and lazy to do it myself right now, it's been a long day and time for relax and then sweet dreams. Hopefully another nice person makes the effort.
i cant separate, etc, but here is a new one:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=117929
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Modular View Post
Hi Devs, and thanks for the stretch functions, it's a really good start but needs some work.

Here are a few ideas.

1. An action to warp a selected item by grid, meaning to add stretch markers to every transient or grid division with one click.
Possible already in this pre (if I didn't misunderstand).

- add stretch markers to transients via the 'Dynamic split' dialog
- action: Snap stretch markers to grid
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:00 PM   #46
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Another thing that would be good on the stretch front is to have the ability to remove notes or drum hits from the stretched item.

Say if you click on a stretch marker, you could right click an remove the audio to the right of that mark, this should also remove the marker too.

You could have some great editing fun with that, especially for dance stuff where you want to stretch a snare but remove the ghost note after it giving it space.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:23 PM   #47
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Default whoa!

I was like, "what the heck are stretch markers?". Then I saw the item in the menu. I clicked it. A little arrow appeared. Hmm, what's that... ooooooo! Amazing addition!
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:33 PM   #48
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Here's what I meant earlier about selection. There needs to be a way to marquee select markers and move them as a group, without selecting the clip. Sometimes you just want to slide a section without really stretching anything but silence.



A common example below. They all do this I think except for Cubase...



Also, and some may disagree, I wonder if the final version of these markers should always be visible or only visible when you actually need to see them.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:41 PM   #49
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Am sure an option to hide 'stretch points' (< better ) will appear at some stage, I hope, as well as a selection method.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:44 PM   #50
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I would love the type of editing you show from cubase but perhaps would rather see this first in the form of cubase's version of a grouped item where you can edit the insides of an item or treat it as a single item. This way the editing you show here is easy and perhaps more useful as we get to keep all our fancy individual item settings.

I agree on perhaps having an toggle option or perhaps a new item button to either hide/show markers or only show markers on selected items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Here's what I meant earlier about selection. There needs to be a way to marquee select markers and move them as a group, without selecting the clip. Sometimes you just want to slide a section without really stretching anything but silence.



A common example below. They all do this I think except for Cubase...



Also, and some may disagree, I wonder if the final version of these markers should always be visible or only visible when you actually need to see them.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:45 PM   #51
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I also tend to think the mouse target is maybe too small, being only where the triangles are instead of being the entire vertical marker line.

Anyway, just suggestions for the pre.

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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
I would love the type of editing you show from cubase
Well... that's not Cubase. You can't marquee select multiple markers like that in Cubase, at least not before version 6 afaik (I have 5.5), which was always one of the issues with it's audio warp, beside it not being multitrack. If you wanted to slide a vocal phrase you had to stretch one end and then stretch the other end to try to get it back to a 100% "non-stretched" state.

In Logic and others you can just just marquee select markers and slide stuff.

So the marquee marker selection for temp grouping should also extend across tracks, not just down one track lane. I assume that will require a new key modifier with Reaper, dunno.

But yeah, Cubase's audio warp is the least flexible of the bunch, or was, unless it's changes between 5.5 and 7.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:47 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Here's what I meant earlier about selection. There needs to be a way to marquee select markers and move them as a group, without selecting the clip. Sometimes you just want to slide a section without really stretching anything but silence.



A common example below. They all do this I think except for Cubase...



Also, and some may disagree, I wonder if the final version of these markers should always be visible or only visible when you actually need to see them.
Lawrence your suggestions are very usable and would be very wellcomed if added here.

I agrre that we need a system where we can select several markers and move them simultaneusly. Also a system to create 3 markers (like in logic) to avoid moving the whole item.

Also like in logic or S1v2 an optin to move the marker to fine adjust it to the transient (at this moment holdong alt does the reverse it moves the transient)

One other: There is some problems regarding the connection with the crossfading, snap offset (anchor) and the stretch markers.
If you use some of the crosfade actions or autopocket option in SWS ext. the stretch markers should stay locked at their position. Current system moves them together with the item edge and the go off the grid.


REgards J
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:49 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Also, and some may disagree, I wonder if the final version of these markers should always be visible or only visible when you actually need to see them.
I think any marker LINE of any type should be visible only while dragging. Don't need to see em any other time. And frankly I'd rather never see them than see them all the time. The handle is usually enough.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:57 PM   #54
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Lawrence your suggestions are very usable and would be very wellcomed if added here.
Well, not my ideas, just stuff out there. The 3 to look at for the good implementations are probably (in no particular order, they all seem to be very well done) probably Logic, Live and Studio One.

As to Cubase, one could easily argue that what's in this pre is already better than what Cubase has since it's on the timeline and it's not restricted to one track at a time, so... nothing to see there.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Here's what I meant earlier about selection. There needs to be a way to marquee select markers and move them as a group, without selecting the clip. Sometimes you just want to slide a section without really stretching anything but silence.



A common example below. They all do this I think except for Cubase...



Also, and some may disagree, I wonder if the final version of these markers should always be visible or only visible when you actually need to see them.
What is the DAW in the screenshot of common example?
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:14 PM   #56
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Wow, stretch markers... I never thought they'd actually come, let alone in a random pre of a mid-version update - I was sure it'd be an X.00 feature at the very least...

Couple things that would be good to have with these markers, apologies if these have already been mentioned:

- ability to lock a marker so it doesn't move
- ability to manually enter the stretch value of a marker (e.g. 1.00x, 0.89x. etc.), perhaps with a right-click "stretch marker properties" dialogue box
- ability to marquee and manipulate groups of stretch markers
- ability to save stretch marker settings per audio file, such that re-importing a file also reimports the previously-saved stretch marker settings
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:30 PM   #57
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Yay!! my baby just got stretch marks!
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:00 PM   #58
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Nice addition of the stretch markers.

It would be nice to see some Ableton Live style auto-warping (audio-quantize) in the future...
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:17 PM   #59
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Default Action for Stretch marker

Can I just suggest a action to .....split in selected time or item stretch marker.?.
And if they automatically crossfade as the crosfade settings beteer..
or another acton that split without crossfade..
I can think this will help Lawrence a lot..and that a good starting point for some really nice macros...and after some really deep stretch editing we can transform that in anther type of editing
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:44 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by mustgroove View Post
Wow, stretch markers... I never thought they'd actually come, let alone in a random pre of a mid-version update - I was sure it'd be an X.00 feature at the very least...

Couple things that would be good to have with these markers, apologies if these have already been mentioned:

- ability to lock a marker so it doesn't move
- ability to manually enter the stretch value of a marker (e.g. 1.00x, 0.89x. etc.), perhaps with a right-click "stretch marker properties" dialogue box
- ability to marquee and manipulate groups of stretch markers
- ability to save stretch marker settings per audio file, such that re-importing a file also reimports the previously-saved stretch marker settings

The item is becoming crowded.

What ways of showing, hiding and/or indicating the presence of particular features would you suggest ?
  • In-item markers(not editable)

  • item-volume envelope

  • item-volume pan envelope

  • item-mute envelope

  • stretch markers

  • media item context

  • media item lower half context

  • fades context

Global view/hide switches ala Grid and Snap
Might be neat. Easy global control over item-envelopes and special markers. Would require a great deal of users to update their toolbars to show those global show/hide indicator-switches.

Item icons ?
Not great for those who never use them, if this is the only presence indicator and it is hidden. An already potentially crowded place.


One Item icon that opens up a simple context menu, applicable to all selected and thus grey in some entries if that is the case.
Dropdown reveals the envelope and marker list above. Maybe it's a two-column menu, one for visibility, one for toggling on and off.


An item detail editor perhaps as part of the item properties, similar to the Vegas Trimmer, where the stretch markers only ever show up ?
This is how Live does it, but we like to do it all in the arrangement area anyway, don't we. A trimmer is a fallback for when in-item stuff can no longer do the job adequatly, like the inline midi editing .


Based on those assumptions, the global show/hide switches seems the most attractive option, plus a nice context menu entry for the markers themselves that indicate all the cute little things you can do with the mouse as well. Right-click and ye shall find, right ?
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:56 PM   #61
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Default v4.33pre6a - February 7 2013 (Post only about Stretch Markers)

Split

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Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
"Remove stretch marker under mouse" (Oh whoops i just dropped an extra marker, crap now i gotta remove em all or make a timeselection around that one marker, erm no)

Sliding (Alt and drag within item) needs to have two versions, right now it slides the entire item even with markers, needs the ability to slide between markers too

No way to slide stretch markers i have found (Probably there but haven't found it ? that is slide their position without effecting the item, get them in the exact place)



Stretch markers are a good first step, but currently unusable in any accurate way, but that is the point if the pres
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:43 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Here's what I meant earlier about selection. There needs to be a way to marquee select markers and move them as a group, without selecting the clip. Sometimes you just want to slide a section without really stretching anything but silence.



A common example below. They all do this I think except for Cubase...

I agree, that's a fine idea. Now, like per-take envelope points, how would REAPER know what you're trying to select? The item, per-take envelope points (if any) or stretch markers? I think we'd need more behaviors in Mouse Modifiers.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:45 PM   #63
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Global view/hide switches ala Grid and Snap
Might be neat. Easy global control over item-envelopes and special markers. Would require a great deal of users to update their toolbars to show those global show/hide indicator-switches.

.... the global show/hide switches seems the most attractive option, plus a nice context menu entry for the markers themselves that indicate all the cute little things you can do with the mouse as well. Right-click and ye shall find, right ?
Agreed. +1

Like per-take envelopes.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:15 AM   #64
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I agree, that's a fine idea. Now, like per-take envelope points, how would REAPER know what you're trying to select? The item, per-take envelope points (if any) or stretch markers? I think we'd need more behaviors in Mouse Modifiers.
I think if we had area selection, then when you area select across multiple stretch marks and dragged a stretch point, the program would know. Or am I daft?
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:43 AM   #65
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Loving Streeetch Markers!

A few stretch marker requests:

1) Please add option to change the colors via Preferences\Theme Editor.

2) Ability to set and manipulate via ReaScript.

3) Ability to ctrl+click to select and manipulate multiple markers.

4) Option to edit them via the Nudge dialog and nudge actions.

5) Actions for inserting project markers/regions at stretch markers positons.

6) Access to stretch markers from within the Region/Marker Manager dialog.

Advanced Request:
One thing that would be uber-cool for some wacked-out sound design would be Pitch/Stretch Mode(algorithm) selection on a per marker basis.

Thank You
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:57 AM   #66
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Just found the alt+click for markers to remove, quite hard hitting the handle at my resolution haha
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:12 AM   #67
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Love these! Especially the pitch mode for sound design!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton9 View Post
Loving Streeetch Markers!

A few stretch marker requests:

1) Please add option to change the colors via Preferences\Theme Editor.

2) Ability to set and manipulate via ReaScript.

3) Ability to ctrl+click to select and manipulate multiple markers.

4) Option to edit them via the Nudge dialog and nudge actions.

5) Actions for inserting project markers/regions at stretch markers positons.

6) Access to stretch markers from within the Region/Marker Manager dialog.

Advanced Request:
One thing that would be uber-cool for some wacked-out sound design would be Pitch/Stretch Mode(algorithm) selection on a per marker basis.

Thank You
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:39 AM   #68
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I hope we'll be able to quantize them at some point. Snap to grid is nice but proper quantize with a strength setting would be better.

As for the name, I think "Audio deformation handles" is quite catchy.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:08 AM   #69
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what is a stretch marker?any videos out there?when would you use it?
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:14 AM   #70
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what is a stretch marker?any videos out there?when would you use it?
Elastic audio,flex time,warp marker,correcting performance,making effects with it ,stretches or shrinks audio when marker is moved between two points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSALHq4eIPE around 50 second
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:28 AM   #71
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Elastic audio,flex time,warp marker,correcting performance,making effects with it ,stretches or shrinks audio when marker is moved between two points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSALHq4eIPE around 50 second

thanks!just watched the video.great stuff.A must have feature.Love it.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:57 AM   #72
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i'm a midi guy!! BUT this shit is KEWL!!

something for the non midi heads so they cant moan so much about the time that's been spent on midi?!

now!

if these stretch markers could be quantized at some point (Tomorrow would be good) then i think even I will be happier about this than i am happy about the current midi improvements!

& boy am i happy about the current midi improvements!!

Sorry that's all i have to add

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Old 02-08-2013, 06:27 AM   #73
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its all said and heard already (since years) - its up to Cockos (and/or zPlane?) now.
I posted how these could be done a while back with lost of pictures BBB, One day they will learn to listen to their users (Yep the people using the software every day of the week) to get these ideas done rigtht before wasting six months reinventing the wheel.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:30 AM   #74
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if these stretch markers could be quantized at some point
Subz
Not sure what the difference between snap to grid and quantize is here really, just move the grid down to a small size if you want small quantize, move it up if you want bigger quantize.
The snap markers to grid action works fine, a slidable quantize is pretty pointless until they reimplement the groove grid
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:34 AM   #75
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I posted how these could be done a while back with lost of pictures BBB ...
Post it again here, or link to it please This is the place!
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:41 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Janne83 View Post
pre6a still randomly produces glitches(can be heard as clicks) on stretch marker/transient positions when the rate is different than 1. Ive tried different recordings and different algorithms and they all click at some points on playback and render.

On MacOSX 64 and 32 bit
Example:

https://stash.reaper.fm/15432/StretchmarkerClicks.mp3

Regards J

What timestretch mode are you using? I should have mentioned that SoundTouch fails completely for this sort of thing -- elastique pro or efficient are the only way to go.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:43 AM   #77
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Does this also work for MIDI items? And if it doesn't, wouldn't it be nice if it could (thinking about global arrange quantize affecting both MIDI and audio...)

- Mario
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:49 AM   #78
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Does this also work for MIDI items? And if it doesn't, wouldn't it be nice if it could (thinking about global arrange quantize affecting both MIDI and audio...)
Maybe some day, but it would be a completely different can of worms and for purposes of audio users (who will inevitably be the primary users of this feature) it would be a huge waste of time.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:53 AM   #79
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Post it again here, or link to it please This is the place!
Sorry can't be bothered, I don't have Airons staying power for being ignored
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:54 AM   #80
Janne83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
What timestretch mode are you using? I should have mentioned that SoundTouch fails completely for this sort of thing -- elastique pro or efficient are the only way to go.
Hey Justing thanks for the input.

I tried all the Elastique 2 options and they all produce clicking at random. (playback and also rendering).

Ive tried this on different audio files (guitar like in the example, shorter more percussive material,...) They all get this kind of clicks at random markers.

The same was hapenning with the take pitch envelope points some time ago (also with the elastique options.)



Regards J
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