Old 02-07-2013, 10:27 AM   #1
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Default v4.33pre (Post only about MIDI)

Quote:
v4.33pre12 - February 13 2013
+ API: added GetTrackDepth function
+ Video: Fix for incorrect framerate detection when using VLC decoding
+ Timestretch: updated to elastique 2.25


v4.33pre11 - February 11 2013
+ Editing behavior: default ctrl+C/ctrl+X behaviors now ignore time selection, use shift+ctrl+C/shift+ctrl+X to copy or cut respecting time selection
# Stretch markers: transient mode fixes
# Stretch markers: mouse map editing mode for moving marker preserving left hand rate
# MIDI editor track list: when initially opening multiple media items, only items on the clicked track are editable
# MIDI editor track list: don't display inactive takes

v4.33pre10 - February 10 2013
# Timestretch: elastique flushing support overhaul
# Stretch markers: option (project, take) for transient vs tonal behaviors
# MIDI editor track list: more refinements to automatic mode
# SoundTouch: supported flushing for optimize-transient mode (though ST ends up producing silence in these instances)
# MIDI editor: fixed editing multiple pooled MIDI events at once

v4.33pre9 - February 9 2013
# MIDI editor: fixed marquee select bug with multiple media items
+ ReWire: enabled ReWire options in preferences for 64-bit
# Stretch markers: limit max stretch value to 0.02x rather than 0.1x
# MIDI editor track list: renamed basic mode to automatic mode, made behaviors more automatic

v4.33pre8 - February 9 2013
+ Video: added WebM output format support when using FFmpeg/LibAV
+ Video: added latest LibAV (0.9.x) support
# Stretch markers: improved grouped-marker editing behavior with multiple markers at a particular time
# Stretch markers: mouse modifier support for ripple edits
# Stretch markers: removing first/last stretch markers will no longer recreate edge stretch markers
# Stretch markers: prevent creating effective rates of less than 0.1, which often would fail

v4.33pre7 - February 8 2013
# Stretch markers: draw edge on stretch marker triangles
+ MIDI editor: added mouse modifiers to move/copy selected notes by dragging in the piano roll (no need to click the note again)
# MIDI editor track list: distilled options down to "basic mode" and "extended mode"
# Stretch markers: better drawing of overlapping markers
# Stretch markers: better alt+click removal logic
# Stretch markers: ctrl+alt+shift to adjust pair of stretch markers
# Stretch markers: mouse map support with additional editing modes
# Stretch markers: quality issue fix [thx Janne83]
+ API: added functions to get media item track, parent tracks
# Stretch markers: added locking support, better interaction with locking system
+ Locking: improved granularity for item locking, fixes
# MIDI editor track list: folder tracks can be selected

v4.33pre6a - February 7 2013
# MIDI track list: fixed recarm, mute, solo options
# MIDI track list: avoid crash when deleting active media item
# Stretch markers: disabled snap-to-1.0-rate code as it made editing uncomfortable
# MIDI editor: fixed moving notes up/down with multiple media items editable
+ Dynamic split: correctly detect take start offset/playrate changes
# MIDI track list: fixed editable/lock button behavior

v4.33pre6 - February 7 2013
# MIDI editor: added table_locked_on, table_locked_off theme images
# MIDI editor track list: selection is mirrored to arrange view by default but can be changed
# MIDI editor track list: editability is linked to selection by default but can be changed
# MIDI editor track list: new behavior options and context menu
+ Stretch markers: change the timing of items using convenient handles
# Stretch markers: alt+click stretch markers to remove, alt+drag to adjust underlying audio position
# Stretch markers: see Item/Stretch markers menu, (ctrl/cmd)+alt click audio items to add stretch markers
+ Dynamic split: support for creating stretch markers rather than splitting
+ Timestretch: support for larger time expansion/compression values
# Timestretch: (note however pitch may not always be able to be preserved, depending on the algorithm used)

v4.33pre5 - February 1 2013
# MIDI editor: fixed crashes when using project bay preview while MIDI editor is open
+ JS: code generation cleanups
+ OSX: fixed joystick support on i386
# MIDI editor: swapped UI for active and editable media items
+ MIDI editor: theme image for media item bounds (midi_item_bounds.png)

v4.33pre4 - January 31 2013
+ ReaSurround: fixed state loading on PPC
# MIDI track list: update properly on changing track mute/solo
# MIDI editor media item lane: fixed snap when adjusting media item edges
# MIDI editor: right-click on piano keyboard to select pitch supports multiple media items
# MIDI editor: transpose actions support multiple media items
# MIDI editor: actions to move notes left/right support multiple media items

v4.33pre3 - January 31 2013
# Video: QT/Fix for MP3 decoding when using bridged mode
# MIDI editor track list: alt key toggles preference to clear editor when changing selection
# MIDI editor track list: prevent items from being selected but not visible
+ OSX: improved peaks reading performance (fixed mmap file reads)
# MIDI editor: refinements to behavior when changing media item selection and visibility
# MIDI editor: Theme colors for piano roll background outside the media item
+ MIDI editor: display the time selection outside the active media item
# MIDI editor: transpose support for multiple media items
# MIDI editor: humanize support for multiple media items
+ MIDI Editor: quantize support for multiple media items

v4.33pre3 - January 25 2013
# MIDI editor: fixed behavior when automatically extending media items
# MIDI editor: fixed deleting notes in multiple media items
# MIDI editor track list: right-click to set random colors
+ MIDI editor: draw time selection outside the media item bounds
+ MIDI editor: theme colors for out-of-bounds piano roll

v4.33pre2 - January 24 2013
+ OSC: fixed FX parameter feedback for some ReaPlugs
+ MIDI editor: fixed editor sometimes opening undocked when it should be docked
# MIDI editor track list: enable activating by track if the track holds only one MIDI media item
# MIDI editor track list: fixed disappearing track list
# MIDI editor track list: always show track numbers
# MIDI editor: support for mouse-deleting notes from multiple media items
# MIDI editor track list: support for mouse-sweeping some columns

v4.33pre1 - January 22 2013
+ Video: improved QuickTime audio decoding
+ OSX: Improved cursor behavior when mouseover on nonfocused windows
+ MIDI track list: shift+click expands/collapses folders or track items
+ MIDI media item lane and track list: shift+ or alt+ click controls whether switching the active media item clears the editor first (optional)
+ MIDI editor: filter window now filters only MIDI events, not media items
+ MIDI editor: media items that are visible and selected may also be edited
+ MIDI editor: track list and media item lane control which media item is active, which others are visible
+ MIDI editor: new track list and media item lane, and theme elements
+ Multiprocessing: improved anticipative FX with sends to tracks that use PDC [t=113560]
"Exclusive mute" and "Exclusive solo" in ME track list don't seem to work at all.

There's missing "Shift" designation for "Set selected media items to random colors".

Shift+clicking the color swatch on the track in media item lane does not work.

Moving notes up/down can still crash Reaper randomly (I can't notice any pattern in this). This is bad.


Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper.exe
Application Version: 4.3.2.16
Application Timestamp: 5113d5a1
Fault Module Name: reaper_midi.dll
Fault Module Version: 1.0.0.1
Fault Module Timestamp: 5113d438
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000000000002d4d9
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1050
Additional Information 1: 9e6d
Additional Information 2: 9e6d08013bd5014039d5440739dc7c39
Additional Information 3: 559f
Additional Information 4: 559f83034c46f1e6f259e0e8b88dd38d


Moving notes with keyboard shortcuts in secondary (non-active but editable) items is EXTREMELY sluggish and lagging terribly (possibly the cause of crash?).

If I have a random selection of notes between an active and a secondary item, and I move with keyboard shortcuts, selected notes in secondary item are not moved at all. Eh?



Last edited by Mercado_Negro; 02-13-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:35 AM   #2
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Just to note before it gets lost in all the posts that this little, but irritating bug is still present:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeder View Post
Bug: Just noticed that there isn't a little black dot next to CC name in dropdown menu when there is CC info present. Only velocity lane displays correct behavior.

Using 4.33pre5 on win7 x64
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
Confirmed but correct behaviour also with CC: 00, 01, 02.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:40 AM   #3
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Huummm, nothing seems to be working with the midi Track List now,

Too numerous to explain right now, if I get the chance I'll try be a little more detailed but so far I do not like the changes. I think the lock screwed everything up.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:42 AM   #4
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Just a reminder :

1. Complete note preview support. Meaning VSTis belonging to their respective tracks are triggered accordingly to preview. Currently, we have to manually change to a specific track to preview the notes of that track note we're moving or clicking.

This is essential when multiple tracks are simultaneously editable.

2. Preview to support keyboard moving of notes. Acutally, only mouse moving of notes is supported by preview.

Last edited by krahosk; 02-07-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeder View Post
Just to note before it gets lost in all the posts that this little, but irritating bug is still present:
Where is this dropdown menu Breeder? I don't know where to look for what you're talking about.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:46 AM   #6
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Where you select the CC for the CC lane.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:55 AM   #7
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Regarding Track List:

* Please add a border to the left side so we can see more clearly where we can resize it

* Add hover info on all buttons

* Please get rid of "untitled MIDI item" naming. This is still used when there's only one item on the track. It makes more sense to keep the bar.beat.tick method of naming even if there is only just one item in the track.

* Exclusive record arm doesn't work! Also please add an option to auto-record arm when track selected in the right-click context menu of TL
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:05 AM   #8
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I can no longer double click a midi note to switch to that item. Am I missing some option somewhere? right clicked everywhere to find it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabian View Post
v4.33pre6 - February 7 2013
# MIDI editor: added table_locked_on, table_locked_off theme images
# MIDI editor track list: selection is mirrored to arrange view by default but can be changed
# MIDI editor track list: editability is linked to selection by default but can be changed
# MIDI editor track list: new behavior options and context menu
Thanks for the MIDI improvements.
Development is going to right direction, but the behaviors are not perfect yet. I can't get the track list working the way I want.

I kind of like the alternative behavior where "Editability/visibility clicks apply to all selected rows" but at the same time I would like the active item/track to follow "single row selection" automatically. If multiple rows was selected, then active item/track would not follow selection.

I don't quite understand the logic of all those "Deselecting a row ..." behaviors. What kind of workflow benefits from those behaviors?

In my opinion it would be more useful to have behaviors like this:
- "Activating a new row sets all other rows uneditable"
- "Activating a new row sets all other rows invisible"
- "Activating an uneditable row sets other rows uneditable"
- "Activating an invisible row sets other rows invisible"
- "Activating a new row does not change editability/visibility of other rows"
Modifier keys could be used to access all these behaviors without need to change settings in menus.

jnif
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #10
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I can't double click to add a note in the midi editor!!
My mouse modifiers haven't changed.
Odd.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
I don't quite understand the logic of all those "Deselecting a row ..." behaviors. What kind of workflow benefits from those behaviors?

In my opinion it would be more useful to have behaviors like this:
- "Activating a new row sets all other rows uneditable"
- "Activating a new row sets all other rows invisible"
- "Activating an uneditable row sets other rows uneditable"
- "Activating an invisible row sets other rows invisible"
- "Activating a new row does not change editability/visibility of other rows"
Modifier keys could be used to access all these behaviors without need to change settings in menus.
Me too, it's quite confusing... I agree with your proposal here, especially the one with modifier keys used to access them.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Where you select the CC for the CC lane.
Thanks ED, I guess I don't remember the CC#s being followed by a "." before so I'm not sure.

Regarding the latest Track List, I can't get anything to work. It looks and feels like we're regressing. I really thought V4.33pre5 was well on the way to doing things right. To me V4.33pre6 is stepping backwards.

I can't really test it cuase I can't get it to work.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicine tactic View Post
...
Swipeable lock column for editability!...

Head: Asplode.
Exploding head here as well, but for a different reason: I totally don't get the functionality of those lock thingies .
What is lock actually supposed to do? All I see is that events get transparent, but they are still editable (if the item/track is selected), locked or not.

Right now I do miss swiping editability a bit... if the locks are doing that, please give me the key


EDIT: that aside, I can work quite well, I needed to check "deselecting a row sets item uneditable", to prevent them from disappearing, so that part is better than in pre5. If I now remember to use use the "active" icons to switch active item/track, I'm pretty happy.
I gotta work a bit with it but my initial feeling is I liked the pre5 method (swipe for editability) better (apart from the visibility always switched off when changing the active item and the visual confusion between active and selected).




I still need a better way to determine whether a track is visible in the item lane... the folder solution just doesn't seem to fit how I set up my arrange view/routing.

Last edited by gofer; 02-07-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #14
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@Tod - Try right-clicking in the empty part of TL and change some options there. It's workable, but you gotta try out various options there.


I also think the lock icon is confusing. When lock is off, the item vanishes from the view? How does that make sense? Isn't that what visibility is supposed to do?



Damn, I constantly keep getting crashes that are related to moving notes using keyboard shortcuts. Any idea what's causing this, Cockos?
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Exploding head here as well, but for a different reason: I totally don't get the functionality of those lock thingies .
What is lock actually supposed to do? All I see is that events get transparent, but they are still editable (if the item/track is selected), locked or not.

Right now I do miss swiping editability a bit... if the locks are doing that, please give me the key
Hrm, yeah, editability appears to be borken. I'm assuming the lock icon is supposed to indicate editability (unlocked = editable, locked = uneditable).
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicine tactic View Post
Hrm, yeah, editability appears to be borken. I'm assuming the lock icon is supposed to indicate editability (unlocked = editable, locked = uneditable).
Not even that. I can have locked items with selected notes, and they're still editable!
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicine tactic View Post
Hrm, yeah, editability appears to be borken. I'm assuming the lock icon is supposed to indicate editability (unlocked = editable, locked = uneditable).
Yeah, I think it is a bug.
It's still broken in pre6a.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Yeah, I think it is a bug.
It's still broken in pre6a.

jnif
Yup. Just on certain items, though. Weird.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicine tactic View Post
Hrm, yeah, editability appears to be borken. I'm assuming the lock icon is supposed to indicate editability (unlocked = editable, locked = uneditable).
What makes you think that? Editability seems to be indicated by highlight(selection), like in pre4. At least I can always edit in highlighted tracks/items and I can always not edit in non-higlighted ones - no matter the state of the lock.

Wouldn't that assumption also mean that switching the lock icon must also toggle highlighted/non-highlighted?


Ooops, I missed there is a pre6a. checking...

Last edited by gofer; 02-07-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
@Tod - Try right-clicking in the empty part of TL and change some options there. It's workable, but you gotta try out various options there.
Thanks ED, I don't even know where to start. This is not a good direction.

Quote:
I also think the lock icon is confusing. When lock is off, the item vanishes from the view? How does that make sense? Isn't that what visibility is supposed to do?
Why the lock? We were there (at least in the ball park) with V4.33pre5..
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:57 PM   #21
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Double-click to switch active item removes the note selection in the item that was active previously. No way around that so not very nice behavior?
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #22
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Opinions please:


To me it doesn't make sense that "unlocked" is the ENABLED (glowing) state of the button. It would make more sense to me if "locked" was the ENABLED state...
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Opinions please:


To me it doesn't make sense that "unlocked" is the ENABLED (glowing) state of the button. It would make more sense to me if "locked" was the ENABLED state...
Before this spawns a huge discussion about icons, remember that it's just indicating editability.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:11 PM   #24
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Aha. I'm gonna change it to pencil then.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henge View Post
I can't double click to add a note in the midi editor!!
My mouse modifiers haven't changed.
Odd.

Confirmed. I haven't changed settings either.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Opinions please:
To me it doesn't make sense that "unlocked" is the ENABLED (glowing) state of the button. It would make more sense to me if "locked" was the ENABLED state...
I take the lock as indicator for editability. Unlock enabled - editable.
Makes sense to me.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
To me it doesn't make sense that "unlocked" is the ENABLED (glowing) state of the button. It would make more sense to me if "locked" was the ENABLED state...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
I take the lock as indicator for editability. Unlock enabled - editable.
Makes sense to me.
He's just talking about the button appearance, suggesting that the 'lock' icon should be brighter and the 'unlock' dimmed.

I think it makes sense the way it is but then I'm easily pleased.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXix View Post
He's just talking about the button appearance, suggesting that the 'lock' icon should be brighter and the 'unlock' dimmed.

I think it makes sense the way it is but then I'm easily pleased.
I got that (if we're not both misunderstanding ED).
To illustrate my thinking:

With the arrow button you control active state, active bright - inactive dimmed.
With the eye button you control visability, visible bright - non-visible dimmed.
With the lock button you control editability, editable (unlocked) bright - non-editable dimmed. Seems coherent to me.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
I don't quite understand the logic of all those "Deselecting a row ..." behaviors. What kind of workflow benefits from those behaviors?
Well, for one, you can make it behave like Logic if you want, where visibility and editability aren't separate, and whatever items are selected in the arrange view are visible/editable in the MIDI editor. That's not how I'll use it, but I imagine a lot of people will appreciate it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:54 PM   #30
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I thought this worked just fine..

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Old 02-07-2013, 01:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
If it's editable then why is it called locking and why does it have a lock icon? I haven't been following the discussion, but doesn't edit-ability mean which item are active right now and locking mean which items you can activate?
I imagine they're still testing out different icon representations of the same basic idea: existing events can be modified and deleted, but new events usually can't be inserted. So unlocked means you can operate on existing events, and locked means you can't.

Quote:
If it's editability it should be a pencil or something as ed says. If it's locking it should be a lock icon with an inconspicuous unlocked state, but a noticeable locked state.
My personal opinion is that the pencil should be reserved for the active track/item, because that's the only item that can be drawn into. But really, the icons don't matter too much at this stage. We should focus on the behavior.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:02 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post

If it's editable then why is it called locking and why does it have a lock icon? I haven't been following the discussion, but doesn't edit-ability mean which item are active right now and locking mean which items you can activate? If it's editability it should be a pencil or something as ed says. If it's locking it should be a lock icon with an inconspicuous unlocked state, but a noticeable locked state.
Editable and active are two different states.
I agree though that the lock icon probably isn't the best for indicating edit-ability, pencil also makes more sense to me.
Sorry, didn't see ED's comment about this before posting my previous replies.

edit;
But then again, pencil wouldn't be accurate either for indicating edit-ability because you only can pencil (draw notes) in the active item for now, hm I dunno. (crosspost with medicine tactic. I basically mean the same thing) I think I'd be fine as it is now.

Last edited by nofish; 02-07-2013 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:04 PM   #33
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hey - what's with this highligthed bar in the midi editor? haven't seen this before for - can I turn it off. Seems it's drawing a little wierd too...

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Old 02-07-2013, 02:07 PM   #34
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potential bug.

If I have say, 4 copies of an un-ghosted midi item on the same track all displaying side by in the midi editor and then go to edit the first one of the 4, I find that using the right click select marque to select a few notes in the first item ALSO selects any notes on the same rows in the other tiems UNLESS I lock the other items.

Is this intentional? I tried a few of the "row options" and couldn't figure this out.

Also, like to say that apart from the lock option (that I'm unsure of it's need) I'm loving editing in this pre as I was in pre 5 still. Later I will try it on a massive orchestral project and see how it holds out there.

Be great if you can find time to squash that above bug though
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:09 PM   #35
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Regarding the MIDI track list, we have tried different behaviors in different prereleases.

In pre4, selected rows were editable, and you clicked a separate column to choose the active item. This was useful for quickly choosing which MIDI items you want to work with, just by selecting the rows.

In pre5, the selected row was active, and you clicked a separate column to choose which items are editable. Some users argued that this was more intuitive, because you are likely to select a set of MIDI items to work with relatively infrequently, but among that set, switch the active item more frequently.

In pre6, the default behavior is similar to pre4, except there are a ton of options (too many options, really). You can alternatively choose a completely different workflow where there is no automatic behavior based on row selection, and instead you select rows and click various icons to affect all of those rows. So if you want to make a group of items editable, you select them, then click the editable (unlocked) icon. This alternative workflow is arguably the most flexible, but not necessarily intuitive, and will require more clicks than the other behaviors.

We're not going to preserve all of these options and behaviors for the final build. I know it's unusual for us to throw so many different behaviors out there, but it does seem clear that different users have different expectations for the best way to manage multiple MIDI items.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:10 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I thought this worked just fine..

What we have now is almost the same, but way better. Now the active item is indicated via its own column (this could change), freeing up highlight-style selection for the item selection, which is super useful for batch toggling the various settings.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
I'm not crazy about the triangle on either side of stretch markers indicating stretched or compressed. Looks kind of cluttered.
I don't mind it solely as for those of us who use separate modifier set ups for top and bottom of the item, it gives us a definite place to grab to move the stretch marker. Especially with a pen or touch screen they have their use but an option is the solution I guess.

What I do like about them too is the colour changes to indicate which side is stretched and if any are at all which is very useful for us who will try to use these markers to avoid stretching the transients and just stretch the sustain part.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
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...but it does seem clear that different users have different expectations for the best way to manage multiple MIDI items.
Yeah, that seems pretty clear.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
We're not going to preserve all of these options and behaviors for the final build. I know it's unusual for us to throw so many different behaviors out there, but it does seem clear that different users have different expectations for the best way to manage multiple MIDI items.
pre6 behavior is definitely the most flexible, and is something that should be offered in the final build, IMHO. Sensible defaults are the key, though.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:19 PM   #40
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I was puzzled by the term "locked" as well (but mainly because it's function has been broken). It in fact is editability and can be independent from highlighted (selected) items/tracks, yay . I think I got my head around it now. Testing.

Thanks for the heads-up re active item drop shadow. For those still wondering, it's midi-item-bounds.png in the image folder. Very nice .

I agree with separating threads for MIDI editor and stretch. But I'm admittedly too tired and lazy to do it myself right now, it's been a long day and time for relax and then sweet dreams. Hopefully another nice person makes the effort.
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