Old 04-12-2013, 07:52 AM   #841
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yes the order (track - item - channel) vs (track - channel - item) would have to be toggleable

What ED is saying is that, for example in track-item-channel view, the presence of channels would not need to be toggleable because it can just remain folded.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:12 AM   #842
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Thanks Semiquaver. I got that, it's like I first thought, lol. That was just my attempt to make sure what the idea is, when Tod asked about the toggle and ED replied there's none at all.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:15 PM   #843
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Interestingly, there's one other arrangement that that makes logical sense: Channel x Track x Item (the other three (C x I x T, I x T x C, and I x C x T) don't make sense because items aren't uniform across tracks).

I'm not suggesting that this be added! But it's interesting to think about toggling visibility/editability of channels across all tracks and items.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #844
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A couple of things,

We still need a better way to select the tracks we want shown in the Track List. The way it is now is not only a little klutsy but I don't think just collapsing the un-selected tracks and leaving them in the list is the way it should be. They should be taken completely out of the list.

We also need a way to select/show all or unselect/show all except the active and visible tracks.

I might also mention that if you click on a collapsed track it actually will become the active track in automatic mode. This can be fixed but I'd rather not even have the collapsed tracks in the list.

--------------

The other thing relates to a post I made a few days back.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=119410

I think this is being exacerbated with the added CC lanes and events in the Track List.

Yesterday I was purposely working on a real project using the latest install in an effort to find any bugs or problems.

Things slowed down so bad I thought Reaper was going to crash. I quit before that happened.

This could end up being a real problem and I'm not sure how the devs can deal with it. I think it's a problem that's been there, probably for ever, and I'm sure has to do with too much data on the screen at once.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:45 AM   #845
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The action (mute selected notes) is the only thing i am really waiting on with regards to multi midi editing

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Old 04-13-2013, 06:26 AM   #846
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Why has this thread been de-sticky-fied?!
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:18 AM   #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
Why has this thread been de-sticky-fied?!
+1 is there a reason this is no longer sticky?

the midi pre's are not finished yet are they?

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Old 04-18-2013, 08:02 AM   #848
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My guess is a mod fat-fingered something on their iPhone
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:00 AM   #849
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Mods, let's re-sticky this thread, shall we?
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:19 AM   #850
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Seems you're not. The channels would be another level below, when you expand an item. It's not an "or" thing, it's an "and" thing.
Please do it this way, if it happens at all. To me, it is most logical to have a tree for Item Channels. Per-Item.

Collapse/expand the list via the [-] box, just like Items under Tracks, but for Channels under Items.

[-] Item Name
Ch. 1
Ch. 2
Ch. 3
...
...
...
Ch. 16
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:02 AM   #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
We still need a better way to select the tracks we want shown in the Track List. The way it is now is not only a little klutsy but I don't think just collapsing the un-selected tracks and leaving them in the list is the way it should be. They should be taken completely out of the list.
Well, there is still that column in Track Manager for selecting which tracks show in Track List. But there is also this right click menu option (over the Track List), Choose which tracks appear in track list. Selecting that you will get a gray cross next to each track in the list and if you click any of the crosses (so they turn black) and close/open the Track List again, the selected tracks won't show in the list anymore. Right click menu option is always there to bring back the whole list again.

Smart and handy, me thinks. But the selection column could as well work with the usual selection modifiers too?

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
Please do it this way, if it happens at all. To me, it is most logical to have a tree for Item Channels. Per-Item.

Collapse/expand the list via the [-] box, just like Items under Tracks, but for Channels under Items.
So basically what medicine tactic presented as "View by Item" in the previous page:

Quote:
Track 1
|
+-Item 1
| |
| +-Channel 1
| | [...]
| +-Channel 16
|
+-Item 2
| |
| +-Channel 1
| | [...]
| +-Channel 16

That makes most sense to me too.

Last edited by xpander; 04-21-2013 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:20 AM   #852
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Xpanded, exactly that. I made a fancy mockup in Gimp, but it isn't done yet. But this is how my mockup looks in terms of the "folder/track/item" logic. Really, it's just a continuation down into the Item as to what you're editing/drawing.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:57 AM   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Well, there is still that column in Track Manager for selecting which tracks show in Track List. But there is also this right click menu option (over the Track List), Choose which tracks appear in track list. Selecting that you will get a gray cross next to each track in the list and if you click any of the crosses (so they turn black) and close/open the Track List again, the selected tracks won't show in the list anymore. Right click menu option is always there to bring back the whole list again.
Thanks xpander, I didn't know it still existed in the Track Manager, but that doesn't work very well either. What I'm talking about is completely getting rid of the tracks you don't want in the Track List all together. The Remove from MIDI editor is greyed out, only Hide in MIDI editor track list works.

For me right now, this whole way of dealing with the Track List is very klutzy. It's not that I can't or wont use it, it's far better than what we had. But I think it can be much better.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:24 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
What I'm talking about is completely getting rid of the tracks you don't want in the Track List all together.
Well, so far that can be done from the Track Manager and over the track list itself ...did you try the right click menu over the track list already (Choose which tracks appear in track list)?

However, these selections only seem to be valid for any single ME session only. Once the ME is closed and re-opened, all the tracks are back there. I gather you would like this feature more permanent though, where the tracks don't show up again unless so selected?

Quote:
The Remove from MIDI editor is greyed out, only Hide in MIDI editor track list works.
These seem to be dependent on the state of visibility. You get both options when the track is visible, and only the hide option when it's not visible in the MIDI editor. This might seem a bit confusing where visibility in one part (MIDI editor) defines the availability of option to hide it in the other part (track list).
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:28 PM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
What I'm talking about is completely getting rid of the tracks you don't want in the Track List all together.
Well, so far that can be done from the Track Manager and over the track list itself ...did you try the right click menu over the track list already (Choose which tracks appear in track list)?
What version of Reaper are you using xpander, I'm using V-4.33pre30. Are there new versions that have changed all this?

What I'm talking about is the way it's just collapsing the tracks and not getting rid of them. Is this not happening for you? Also the Remove from MIDI editor is always grayed out no matter what I do or what state the ME is in.



Quote:
However, these selections only seem to be valid for any single ME session only. Once the ME is closed and re-opened, all the tracks are back there. I gather you would like this feature more permanent though, where the tracks don't show up again unless so selected?
Yes, I think that would be the appropriate way, don't you? I don't want it all set up and then changed when I have to go out and then come back in, that can happen frequently for various reasons.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:55 PM   #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
What version of Reaper are you using xpander, I'm using V-4.33pre30. Are there new versions that have changed all this?
I don't recall how exactly this latest pre version would be different from what you are testing, but yes, I'm using the v4.34 pre2 now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Yes, I think that would be the appropriate way, don't you? I don't want it all set up and then changed when I have to go out and then come back in, that can happen frequently for various reasons.
I'm still on fence about that. As long as I can select from the track list itself, I'm fine. But yes, I can imagine occasions where I'd like to keep the hiding selection for longer than just one ME session.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:03 PM   #857
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Okay, I'm going to download v4.34 pre2 now, I've been watching the change logs and didn't see anything relevant to the ME Track List but evidently.

Thanks xpander.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:44 PM   #858
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Okay, upgraded to V4.34pre and it didn't make any difference, Remove from MIDI editor is still grayed out.. I looked all over in the MIDI Editor Preferences but didn't see anything pertinent. Maybe somewhere else?



Incidentally, I open the ME with a shortcut key "E" and I'm not having a problem with the ME resetting itself doing it that way. However, it does reset if I use one of the Track Manager selections.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Okay, upgraded to V4.34pre and it didn't make any difference, Remove from MIDI editor is still grayed out.. I looked all over in the MIDI Editor Preferences but didn't see anything pertinent. Maybe somewhere else?

Looking at your track list, I see that you have only Cello-1 track visible (eye icon). If you'd have the tracks 2-6 also visible, they should then have both the hide and remove options available...that is, if it works like here.

Quote:
Incidentally, I open the ME with a shortcut key "E" and I'm not having a problem with the ME resetting itself doing it that way. However, it does reset if I use one of the Track Manager selections.
Ok, thanks Tod. Have to test this further a bit later.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:40 AM   #860
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Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Looking at your track list, I see that you have only Cello-1 track visible (eye icon). If you'd have the tracks 2-6 also visible, they should then have both the hide and remove options available...that is, if it works like here.
There must be one of the elusive abominable settings somewhere.



Any ideas?
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:53 AM   #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
There must be one of the elusive abominable settings somewhere.
Any ideas?
Hehe, I tried to describe it earlier, but maybe next gif is more clear (visible > Remove from MIDI editor option). Only that today I seem to get the option, but it just doesn't do anything. I could've sworn that yesterday I was removing tracks from ME (and the track list) like this. Funny. Anyways, editability seems also to bring up the option Remove from MIDI editor. No, doesn't work either.




And following is the other way I was talking about. You have to close and reopen the track list after the selection to update it:
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:44 AM   #862
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Originally Posted by xpander View Post
And following is the other way I was talking about. You have to close and reopen the track list after the selection to update it:
Thanks for the help xpander. Yeah, I know about doing it right in the Track List itself. However it only collapses them and doesn't completely hide them. Back a few pres ago we could completely hide them.

Oh well, it looks like they've put the Track List on hold for a while. Maybe when they get back to it things can get straightened out a bit.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:59 AM   #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Yeah, I know about doing it right in the Track List itself. However it only collapses them and doesn't completely hide them. Back a few pres ago we could completely hide them.
Yea, only hides them right now. Like you said, hopefully they get a bit more attention later on.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:30 AM   #864
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Late to to party here.

Looks like I am about to be kicking and screaming and throwing a tantrum.

The way the multi MIDI stuff is progressing, I might be stuck at 4.4 for a while.

Hopefully I am wrong, but it seems like in these pre's, the multiple items need to be selected in the arrange in order to be seen in the MIDI editor.

please stop me right here and tell me I'm wrong!

Before, when you'd open all track MIDI, you'd have your selected item to edit, and the rest of the items would be faintly drawn. When you click on the fainter notes - the item selection would change.

I used this behavior to basically comp takes and other things directly in the MIDI editor. Split, glue... basically any sort of action that you could do in the main can be done in the MIDI editor if you set the actions up properly and have the key pass through to the Main, and then to reopen all track MIDI. This works because the item selection in the arrange and the item for editing at tied. Just recently got this workflow down, took hours of working out custom actions - and now...

now I'm about to have to throw a tantrum.. lol

I think adding an option to draw all track midi faintly on the editor, like the old behavior, to how it is works in these pres would solve this for me.

Might be another way. I haven't worked with MIDI in these pres much, so perhaps I'm missing something.

thoughts?

Why does seeing the notes have to mean the item is selected!!!!!!!!

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Old 04-28-2013, 09:24 AM   #865
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Quote:
Before, when you'd open all track MIDI, you'd have your selected item to edit, and the rest of the items would be faintly drawn. When you click on the fainter notes - the item selection would change.
Hi James, with one of the latest builds that has the Track List it does open the ME that way. I'm using V4.34pre2.

However, with this version you can't click on the fainter note to change tracks, however back a pre or so you could and it might come back in an update. However you can do that in the Track List. Do you have the Track List open? In the upper menu click on Contents and make sure Track List is checked.

It's definitely not ready for prime time yet but it's heading in the right direction.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:30 AM   #866
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi James, with one of the latest builds that has the Track List it does open the ME that way. I'm using V4.34pre2.

However, with this version you can't click on the fainter note to change tracks, however back a pre or so you could and it might come back in an update. However you can do that in the Track List. Do you have the Track List open? In the upper menu click on Contents and make sure Track List is checked.

It's definitely not ready for prime time yet but it's heading in the right direction.

yes, when you double click, it does bring up that item for editing. However, all the track midi items remain selected in the arrange. this is what breaks my take actions!

I believe 4.34pre2 is the version I have on my portable install. I tried all the iterations of the settings.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:58 AM   #867
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Originally Posted by James HE View Post
Late to to party here.

Hopefully I am wrong, but it seems like in these pre's, the multiple items need to be selected in the arrange in order to be seen in the MIDI editor.
No, If You use latest 4.3x pre You can set in the Options> MIDI editor "open all track midi" and You can select only one item, it will open all items at once.

Quote:
and the rest of the items would be faintly drawn.
Right, if You select option: "only active item is editable"

BUT UNFORTUNATELY there is one thing broken during latest pres and I hope it will be fixed until all new MIDI editor options will be released:

After opening a MIDI item in "Open all track MIDI" mode, only ACTIVE item should remain selected, not ALL items, as it is now.

I hope that Cockos will fix it in the next pre!
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:08 AM   #868
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Quote:
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After opening a MIDI item in "Open all track MIDI" mode, only
ACTIVE item should remain selected, not ALL items, as it is now.

I hope that Cockos will fix it in the next pre!
Yes, please!

Or optionally not selected, but has focus.

Because:
Even if I wish to edit the Active Item, it's unlikely that I
want to edit every Note within the Active Item as well.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:17 AM   #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_After View Post

After opening a MIDI item in "Open all track MIDI" mode, only ACTIVE item should remain selected, not ALL items, as it is now.

I hope that Cockos will fix it in the next pre!
this is exactly what I am talking about. When I say selected, I mean, selected in the arrange view.

So this was different in previous pres?
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:23 AM   #870
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this is exactly what I am talking about. When I say selected, I mean, selected in the arrange view.

So this was different in previous pres?
Well, it was different, but it wasn't right in any pre of 4.33 - 4.34 cycle
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:32 AM   #871
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Quote:
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this is exactly what I am talking about. When I say selected, I mean, selected in the arrange view.

So this was different in previous pres?
Each pre has been different, sometimes headed in the right direction, sometimes not so much. At least it's all been possitive, giving everyone a chance to check it out and discuss it.

I think what we need most at this point is a dedicated way of selecting the tracks that appear in the Track List. Much like the Contents menu but just and only showing the midi tracks, no items or other type selections. Of course it should stay open until you close it.

Heh heh, also just a little bumb...
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:30 PM   #872
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EDIT: Nevermind, this was user error (I had stretched out the midi item so that playback rate was insanely low, doh!

Maybe this has already been discussed, or maybe I'm just stupid, but it seems like switching away from an active track messes up the timing:



Apologies for the crappy gif, but I think you can see that perfectly-aligned 8th notes become misaligned when I switch to a different item/track, and quantize doesn't fix it...?

(I am probably just not very smart...)

Last edited by yep; 05-02-2013 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:42 PM   #873
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Quote:
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MIDI timing messed up in 4.41?

Maybe this has already been discussed, or maybe I'm just stupid, but it seems like switching away from an active track messes up the timing:



Apologies for the crappy gif, but I think you can see that perfectly-aligned 8th notes become misaligned when I switch to a different item/track, and quantize doesn't fix it...?

(I am probably just not very smart...)
You've got the bypass box in the quantize dialog checked, fwiw. Seems to still be a problem though, since you seemed to draw the notes on the grid in the first place.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:55 PM   #874
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You've got the bypass box in the quantize dialog checked, fwiw. Seems to still be a problem though, since you seemed to draw the notes on the grid in the first place.
Doh!

Just checked it without bypass, same problem...

Anyone able to confirm...?
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:26 AM   #875
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There will be a new prerelease later today with the MIDI track list back in the build.

Regarding the media item selection and visibility -- there is an option (right-click on the MIDI track list): "media item selection mirrors arrange view."
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:39 AM   #876
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There will be a new prerelease later today with the MIDI track list back in the build.

Regarding the media item selection and visibility -- there is an option (right-click on the MIDI track list): "media item selection mirrors arrange view."
But in "automatic mode" all items visible in the editor are selected in arrange view. Is this as intended?


*edit*

never mind the edit.. lol.

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Old 05-06-2013, 09:19 AM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
There will be a new prerelease later today with the MIDI track list back in the build.

Regarding the media item selection and visibility -- there is an option (right-click on the MIDI track list): "media item selection mirrors arrange view."
I believe dr_After is looking for something like "Arrange view selection follows active item". See here.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:46 PM   #878
Susan G
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Hi-

Is there still no native REAPER distinction b/w sharp and flat keys in the ME scale or note picker? (If so, it's been that way for 3+ years now.)

Thanks-

-Sisam
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:13 PM   #879
medicine tactic
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v4.41pre2 - May 6 2013

So ... we gonna re-sticky this thread or what?
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:42 PM   #880
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We could move the conversation over to the regular prerelease thread. This thread originally existed because there were two major features being worked on at the same time.
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