Old 07-07-2011, 05:44 AM   #81
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Cockos is already doing a tremendous job with making Reaper available for both Mac and Windows. Now with this more-than-a-welcome newcomer for Linux they are nailing it down in a true cross-platform manner.

If your f*****g OSes differ you, Reaper will unite you.

Go Cockos go!
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:46 AM   #82
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I use both Windows and Linux. I like them both. I dual boot.

ATM My DAW machine is a Windows box due to audio drivers and my heavy reliance on VSTS. Back in 2006 I was running Linux with a RT Kernel + Jack + Ardour + Wine + Reaper --> VST --> Jack --> Ardour I actually had things going pretty smoothly, but then I got into Ableton Live, and that was pretty much a no go under Wine so I decided to switch to Windows for my audio needs.

This is really cool though, I'm happy that the Linux guys are getting a break with more and more software and support. As far as the drama is concerned, I know it's a two way street but in general the Linux guys take about 500 times more sh#% for using their favorite OS than the Windows guys do, most of the time just for mentioning the word Linux. Even though my primary OS is Windows I'm sticking up for the underdog and mentioning this as a reminder for those who seem to enjoy bashing Linux for one reason or another without provocation. Hopefully someday there can be harmony between the two camps. Although, if human nature is any indication..
I honestly think Linux backed by a professional team/company is a *very* serious alternative for the server side of computing. (No intentions to bash it on other fronts, just emphazing it truely is a real contender in that space).

Linux (unix) has a long history, in which we can see that many companies supported it's evolution and maturing.

It is no fun to bash Linux (as it is no fun to bash Windows or OSX (although I cannot resist to recommend installing Win 7 on a MBP to new users ... lol)).

As to your remark about human nature; I think you're confusing nature with behavior. Human behavior as observed currently sucks in many areas. Human nature as observed in my beautiful baby girl is pure love and sweetness.

Back to the topic --> indeed great to see this development, maybe one day my daughter can chose the free open source and mature variant instead of the closed and expensive versions that Apple or Microsoft offer. Luckily she has a few years before she will make her choice :-p
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:46 AM   #83
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+100,000 to the last two comments. Reaper for everyone!
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:03 AM   #84
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I honestly think Linux backed by a professional team/company is a *very* serious alternative for the server side of computing. (No intentions to bash it on other fronts, just emphazing it truely is a real contender in that space).

Linux (unix) has a long history, in which we can see that many companies supported it's evolution and maturing.

It is no fun to bash Linux (as it is no fun to bash Windows or OSX (although I cannot resist to recommend installing Win 7 on a MBP to new users ... lol)).

As to your remark about human nature; I think you're confusing nature with behavior. Human behavior as observed currently sucks in many areas. Human nature as observed in my beautiful baby girl is pure love and sweetness.

Back to the topic --> indeed great to see this development, maybe one day my daughter can chose the free open source and mature variant instead of the closed and expensive versions that Apple or Microsoft offer. Luckily she has a few years before she will make her choice :-p
I can see what you're saying about human nature. But to me, I'm not confusing them. I think we're both right actually. There are a lot of "natural" things about the way we act as humans that are typically things we want to overcome (IE: children fighting over a candybar). And through behavioral techniques, a lot of the time we do overcome them and grow from it. and Ofcourse there is also the good side of human nature, which you gave an example of. Anyway, just explaining the way I think

Anyway, good post. It's nice to see those who can recognize pros and cons and still respect both sides.

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Old 07-07-2011, 06:25 AM   #85
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In my opinion, making Reaper available on all three platforms can only be a GOOD THING. Thank you to all endeavouring to make this happen.
well there is ONE situation in which it could not be a good thing - if it requires a lot of attention by the developers and yields little profit. It seems like it doesn't require much attention, even if it doesn't yield profit... so cool. Of course, it's none of our business hehe...
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:48 AM   #86
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If your f*****g OSes differ you, Reaper will unite you.
That's the spirit! Who gives a f*ck what Reaper runs on when it runs well?

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Old 07-07-2011, 07:45 AM   #87
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diogenes, i could quote you as saying on these very forums that you would hold back on the linux bashing...unfortunately you have not done so.
are you a man of your word or are you not?
either edit your old post or redact it. either way, man up
Holy crap... I AM NOT "LINUX BASHING"!! Show me the bashing? The guy asked a 'noob' question. I answered HONESTLY as my own experiences with Linux have shown. The ONLY drawback I found with Linux is I spent way too much time screwing around with it trying to make things WORK. Why bother with that when I could just boot Windows or OSX and make music? Someday, hopefully with help from guys like Cockos that will change and Average Joe will have a Linux OS that works as smoothly and is widely supported as the two big guys.

If there is an "issue" here, it is not with *whatever non Linux OS fan boys*... it is with the Linux geeks who get pissed when someone posts honest experiences from real-life, Average Joe users.

As far as the comment I made about "the only OS that matters"...

Less than 1% market share???

http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-mar...e.aspx?qprid=9

All that said, I repeat;
Quote:
It's great the Cockos guys are doing this though.
AND

Quote:
Geez man... get a grip. Choices are good.
D

PS Oh yeah... I wanted to address this one...

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Would you trust mac or windows with your life? Not me.
You already do. Every day.

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Old 07-07-2011, 08:16 AM   #88
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I succesfully managed to compile libSwell from '404NotFound's repository. But REAPER still won't start because of an error regarding libSwell.so - like there would be no libSwell.so at all. Any suggestions? I'm using Ubuntu 11.

BTW just realized I'm using Windows, Mac & Linux
Mac on my Laptop, and dual boot on my workstation.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:15 AM   #89
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This one says just 0.76%:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-mon...102-201104-bar

There you can also select different regions and countries.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:27 AM   #90
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I succesfully managed to compile libSwell from '404NotFound's repository. But REAPER still won't start because of an error regarding libSwell.so - like there would be no libSwell.so at all. Any suggestions? I'm using Ubuntu 11.

BTW just realized I'm using Windows, Mac & Linux
Mac on my Laptop, and dual boot on my workstation.
what is the total number of users in these things?

if everyone in the world had a computer that would be 45.6 million people are on Linux.(of course they don't....not even close)
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:57 AM   #91
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I guess a part of those 0.76% is people like me just fiddling around with Linux from time to time and not really using it.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:48 AM   #92
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0.76% ???

That's probably the same rate for geniuses.

[Please note: I became a genius the other day by experimenting with Linux]
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:14 AM   #93
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For some reason (beer?) I need to join this thread...

First of all, I would really want to see native Linux version of Reaper (official release) but I think most of plugins still need some kind of "glue" to make it work. imo. But if it counts, I willing to pay couple of extra Euros just to see it running on Linux

For those who like "OS-war" and "usage statistics" I would like to point this URL
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

Most of (us) IT people use Linux to develop software and hope to see "mainstream software companies" to support it such as Mac/Win, so +1 to this!
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:21 AM   #94
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Count me in congratulating team cockos on this move. I've been using Linux for years for pretty much everything except music production and adobe CS, and have been quietly hoping for this for a long time.

A pro DAW on Linux is a big deal. Apart from being one of the killer apps missing from Linux, it paves the way for people to do real music work without having to pay Apple or Microsoft tax and brings freedom of software choice one step closer. Let's hope that the momentum continues and we end with a stable version in the near future.

Nice action! z.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:25 PM   #95
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cheers to the devs who are showing the love.
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:50 AM   #96
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to be honest, having a Linux version is a two way street. It either has to be open source (so that distro maintainers adapt it to whatever distro they maintain), or it will work reliably only in distros Justin & co. tested it in. Of course, having a static build is another option, but it will certainly break Justin's 5MB download model.

But honestly, for all you people saying that Linux needs fiddling - this is not true. I run Kubuntu for over 5 years now (since 6.06), and while <10 versions required some shaman rituals, 11.04 is truly an "out of the box" experience. Never a hickup, never a fiddle. Of course, when things come to FFADO, JACK and co., this is still a very much command-line driven territory, although again, not so much fiddling if you're on Ubuntu - everything is installed through the repo, and QJackCtl works fine as a GUI frontend to JACK.

The obstacles in the Linux's way are lack of drivers, lack of software, and lack of serious audio users on Linux. Linux has been historically very flaky with audio just because not enough people are interested in audio-heavy things of Linux.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:08 AM   #97
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On-topic: thanks to all involed!

OT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boray View Post
er.. in case this is not clear, I have to say that this is plain bullshit.
Normal: as said in their websites "We collect data from the browsers of site visitors"..
Random example: I'm not sure such a live HD MPEG-4 encoder will browse the internet:

Linux presence is MASSIVE but not where one can think. Nowadays, with faster processors compagnies invest more and more in software rather than hardware.
These kind of devices do not feature bells & whistles. The vast majority of them run Linux (but with distros more like Fedora, in the compagny I work for at least).
If you're reading this post, if you're watching Digital TV, if you're shopping, etc.. it's thanks to Linux-based devices.. somewhere.. on earth.

"The OS debate! Again!! Believe me: an OS is just usefull/useless depending on the context. 2 most obvious examples: cockOS/jeffOS"

Last edited by Jeffos; 10-17-2011 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:22 AM   #98
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That is so true. Even in modern music studios you'll find three times as much linux driven devices than windows or mac devices. Just not on the desktop (yet).

Back to topic:

@Justin: Will extensions work in this version?
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:39 AM   #99
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@Justin: Will extensions work in this version?
I suppose, if they heavily depend on something OS-specific that is not covered by Swell or other abstraction layers Justin has introduced - then no, without serious porting effort. However, they might work in combination with Wine.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:41 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
On-topic: thanks to all involed!

OT:


er.. in case this is not clear, I have to say that this is plain bullshit.
Normal: as said in their websites "We collect data from the browsers of site visitors"..
Random example: I'm not sure such a live HD MPEG-4 encoder will browse the internet:

Linux presence is MASSIVE but not where one can think. Nowadays, with faster processors compagnies invest more and more in software rather than hardware.
These kind of devices do not feature bells & whistles. The vast majority of them run Linux (but with distros more like Fedora, in the compagny I work for at least).
If you're reading this post, if you're watching Digital TV, if you're shopping, etc.. it's thanks to Linux-based devices.. somewhere.. on earth.

"The OS debate! Again!! Believe me: an OS is just usefull/useless depending on the context. 2 most obvious examples: cockOS/jeffOS"
Excellent point. I always take those statistics with a big grain of salt. We're not talking about embedded devices here though... but I agree that context is everything.

I'm looking forward to trying Linux again. Maybe by the time I get around to it, Cockos will have more work done on the Reaper port. It's about that time of year for my annual Linux-fest anyway.

D
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:09 AM   #101
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ok, i've waited long enough.. please don't bite me - but can i politely ask why a regular user such as muggins here would benefit from a linux reaper? now or in near future and/or why i'd want to switch?

if its for running reaper on little tablets or maybe android i can see that as good, for a small cheap mobile recording system, i can imagine that.

but if i have to enter the dreaded 'console' to get things to work, risk having numerous plugins not work, high risk of no drivers for my audio hardware,
'why?' is a valid if uninformed question! .

with my new pc running win7 (but could easily be XP still) i'm getting fab low latency stable running, and i can get on with recording and mixing and not worrying about functionality.

as far as i see it, reaper is my reaper working with my stuff. if its running on biofuel or Amiga workbench 1.3 i don't really care, it needs to work first!

so it seems the option is that maybe in 18months time it'll work on linux fine, with unknown performance gains (are any expected?), yet with limited hardware support and half as many functioning plugs. the fact it may boot in 10 seconds isn't a big draw personally,
so how do you guys in the know see it panning out? i guess theres a good reason cockos are doing it, but i'm interested in the ramifications for 'joe the mixer'.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:59 AM   #102
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ok, i've waited long enough.. please don't bite me - but can i politely ask why a regular user such as muggins here would benefit from a linux reaper? now or in near future and/or why i'd want to switch?

if its for running reaper on little tablets or maybe android i can see that as good, for a small cheap mobile recording system, i can imagine that.

but if i have to enter the dreaded 'console' to get things to work, risk having numerous plugins not work, high risk of no drivers for my audio hardware,
'why?' is a valid if uninformed question! .

with my new pc running win7 (but could easily be XP still) i'm getting fab low latency stable running, and i can get on with recording and mixing and not worrying about functionality.

as far as i see it, reaper is my reaper working with my stuff. if its running on biofuel or Amiga workbench 1.3 i don't really care, it needs to work first!

so it seems the option is that maybe in 18months time it'll work on linux fine, with unknown performance gains (are any expected?), yet with limited hardware support and half as many functioning plugs. the fact it may boot in 10 seconds isn't a big draw personally,
so how do you guys in the know see it panning out? i guess theres a good reason cockos are doing it, but i'm interested in the ramifications for 'joe the mixer'.
I don't think the benefit would be directly related towards people who run win7 and are happy with it. I love reaper on windows, but I like working in Linux more. I see (hopefully) setting up a puppy Linux "pupplet" running a light weight xfce widow manager and reaper portable(portable install or not) with a plugin folder riding shotgun on a 32 GB USB stick..

Its another layer of foundation. pure cross platform...although next will be the bsd folks asking for a port, if the Linux one wont support it.

I don't think this is for the low latency content user base directly. I think benefits of adding users for revenue and extension development would be great indirect benefits to win/mac users. Themers, plug in programmers etc. All great additional resources.

I could see holding on this if reaper was a sub par program in need of serious work.... but to be fair I think alot of this has to be done sans cockos dev team.

I guess the question is also "why not?".
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:13 AM   #103
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Just to add my two cents..

I also have a linux week once a year where I install, spend ages fiddling, come up against an un-work-around-able bug and with feelings of "selling my soul to the devil", switch back to windows 7.
For example, a few weeks back I installed the lasted distro of ubuntu (followed by ubuntu studio). Everything worked fine... apart form the "there are no screens connected" message... on my screen... and of course my alesis io 26 didn't work out of the box. I solved the first bug pretty quickly, but the second. :-( I spend at least 10 hours working my way through possible causes, I even got it to play music in the end. Without going into to much detail though, suffice it to say that bar sudo-ing every app I ran it was completely unworkable. So to the linux-bashers-bashers, you've got to realize, Linux isn't perfect. People still regularly have problems with it...

But even after all that, I'll still go back and try again next year. I'm still glad beyond words to see cockos working on a linux reaper. Why?

Because I have what can only be described as a yearning to switch to linux. Ok, when using specialist hardware there are often problems with drivers, but other than that it is just a great platform! The whole idea of it - user-driven development, completely free, speedy, secure, (moral?). How can it not appeal to us techno-geeks?

To answer benk-msx's question though. The ramifications for 'joe the mixer' aren't immediate. However the ramifications for the industry could be huge. Imagine if having a major DAW on linux sparked companies to release linux drivers, sparked development of other music software "add-ons" (like plugins, ASIO etc). Linux could become a desirable place for big name companies to aim their products at. THEN the ramifications for 'joe the mixer' would be huge. It would cut down the cost of setting up a "bedroom-studio" for one, and they'd be able to work in a safe and secure OS environment - with frequent updates and bug fixes. Imagine if companies released their drivers as semi-open-source in linux. You'd never have to worry again about dealing with buggy drivers from the manufacturer like we do on windows. If it didn't work, someone would fix it and release the source.

Ok, that's all a big maybe, but I can dream can't I? can't I?

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Old 07-08-2011, 10:40 AM   #104
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i don't see any benefit for ME in having a huge Mac OS X and iPhone software market. the fact that i don't use anything with an apple on it doesn't mean someone else doesn't too.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:37 PM   #105
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indeed borillo, but those apples and pods and what-not work - and rather nicely!

cheers for the responses, i see how developers and extension makers can both add value and also spread popularity, and that could get hardware manufacturers on the driver issue - though hoping for compatible drivers is always an excercise in dissapointment i found..

i suppose we shall only really see what the choices are when things start really working and intergrating and those at the coal face do some crazy cool things with it to get everyones attention.
not knocking it at all btw, merely curious.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:23 AM   #106
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the thing is, Linux community has been growing despite all the lack of drivers, lack of software, lack of hardware vendors support, lack of this, lack of that - and will keep growing no matter what. it's not going anywhere. the fact that REAPER developers recognize that is great (and speaks volumes about Justin & co.), and only contributes to Linux and REAPER growth.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:37 AM   #107
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That is so true. Even in modern music studios you'll find three times as much linux driven devices than windows or mac devices. Just not on the desktop (yet).

Back to topic:

@Justin: Will extensions work in this version?
If they are compiled correctly, yes. To access the windows REAPER provides, too, they should be using libSwell.
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:42 AM   #108
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Hmm, I've never understood why some people feel such a strong need to derail every constructive thread with useless 'Linux is crap' BS as soon as the word Linux appears in front of their eyes. That hatred must be really deep.

Nope - it's just that the claim that Linux seriously works for anyone who's not a stellar geek is false in its entirety. I wasted more that enough hours attempting to get various distributions in a usable state for everyday work to have an idea of how much of a pain in the arse Linux still really is.
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:46 AM   #109
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b.t.w.: I nonetheless have high hopes that one of you nerds will one day come out with a stripped-down-to-the-bare-minumum distribution that's tailor-made to run Reaper and Reaper alone.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:04 AM   #110
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Nope - it's just that the claim that Linux seriously works for anyone who's not a stellar geek is false in its entirety. I wasted more that enough hours attempting to get various distributions in a usable state for everyday work to have an idea of how much of a pain in the arse Linux still really is.
Linux works for many people. Many of them aren't stellar geeks. It's just that a lot of us are used to Windows/OS X and indeed running Linux is like you're in primary school again - you just don't know how to do stuff. As i already said earlier, i use Kubuntu since 6.06, and while i agree that it has its fair share of problems, so far i can say that 11.04 has finally become a flawless experience (at least on my hardware). Everything from WiFi to my webcam works (actually, WiFi works even better on Linux than it ever did on Windows 7), KDE 4.6 is awesome, all software i need runs flawlessly. I'm not sure i've even launched a terminal since the installation (and even then i did because i have a fairly non-trivial boot configuration and needed to manually make my laptop bootable). Granted, i'm a stellar geek, but i seriously often forget that i'm actually running Linux - it's that flawless. I don't even use Windows for anything but REAPERing anymore - in fact, i now very much prefer Linux for my everyday tasks, which is something i never experienced before 11.04.

...and we're back into OS wars. Yes, but "Linux doesn't work for me" and "Linux is a pain in the ass" carry different statements.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:06 AM   #111
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b.t.w.: I nonetheless have high hopes that one of you nerds will one day come out with a stripped-down-to-the-bare-minumum distribution that's tailor-made to run Reaper and Reaper alone.
This IS my hope as well
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:17 AM   #112
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the claim that Linux seriously works for anyone who's not a stellar geek is false in its entirety.
Hmm, I agree that many people have trouble with linux, but maybe you're overstating things a bit. I've seen a clean install on computers where it just works, everything, out of the box.

However, I'm a mega-geek and even I've had serious trouble with recent distros of linux on some computers - even just the install stage. I look forward to the day when linux is perfect, (and we all know it will reach that day long before windoSX does... ), but that day hasn't yet come.

However, this is all besides the point. Why are we debating whether linux is a good platform or not? The guys at cockos obviously think it is, and what's good enough for them....
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:28 AM   #113
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It's mostly breaks down to what people are used to and not about the quality of an OS.

Last time I installed Windows all I've got was a 640x480 screen, a (somewhat) working keyboard and the windows audio recorder. Without the hell of a lot of tweaks this would have been the end of all means. What a great DAW OOTB. And this was not Windows98 ten years ago, it was Win7/64 just a few weeks ago and standard off the shelf hardware.

Just because people know how to search for drivers, install drivers, resolve conflicts, hack the registry, search for software, install software, resolve conflicts, hack the registry, configure hardware buffers through undocumented user interfaces etc etc etc doesn't mean that they are not tweaking the hell out of a system by doing so.

The same system was up and running and ready for low latency recording in under 30 minutes with just ten mouse clicks and a bit of jack tweakage. The latter was not more complicated than installing and configuring Asio4All on windows, just different.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:49 AM   #114
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Last time I installed Windows all I've got was a 640x480 screen, a (somewhat) working keyboard and the windows audio recorder. Without the hell of a lot of tweaks this would have been the end of all means.
you mean clicking a few automated setup.exe's ? right. That's pretty tough, even for a tweaker like you, im sure. I have my drivers on a 3 year old system (tech probably 4-5 years old) going in about 5 minutes. That's a pretty conservative estimate too. More like:

Graphics Card driver (not even desperately needed) - Firepod driver - done.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:21 AM   #115
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OK guys, it's not that Windows/OSX isn't easy to set up for audio, it's just that Linux isn't that hard to set up for audio either. the problem right now is not stability, security or anything, it's lack of software and drivers. Cockos is trying to contribute to solution of one of the former problem.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:07 PM   #116
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In case someone is interested in contributing to the porting effort, I've created a thread for discussing it at: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=83324.
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:38 AM   #117
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In case someone is interested in contributing to the porting effort, I've created a thread for discussing it at: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=83324.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:48 AM   #118
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you mean clicking a few automated setup.exe's ? right. That's pretty tough, even for a tweaker like you, im sure. I have my drivers on a 3 year old system (tech probably 4-5 years old) going in about 5 minutes. That's a pretty conservative estimate too. More like:

Graphics Card driver (not even desperately needed) - Firepod driver - done.
OK, if you're happy with 640x480 then don't tweak on windows. Seems like you're easy to please.

It's more like: Insert CD, click three times and you have a fully working system with professional grade image tools, office, games and all internet porgrams available, that you'll ever need. I think this compares really well to "find a driver, download it, install it, reboot" and "find an exe, download it, install it, reboot" several dozen times until you have something comparable on a windows system.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:57 AM   #119
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OK, if you're happy with 640x480 then don't tweak on windows. Seems like you're easy to please.
that's not what happens on windows when I don't install my graphics drivers. I have decreased performance, but full resolution, thanks.

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It's more like: Insert CD, click three times and you have a fully working system with professional grade image tools, office, games and all internet porgrams available, that you'll ever need. I think this compares really well to "find a driver, download it, install it, reboot" and "find an exe, download it, install it, reboot" several dozen times until you have something comparable on a windows system.
I find that our experiences with linux and windows differ greatly.
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Old 07-10-2011, 07:14 AM   #120
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Wait... why are we talking about OSX and Windows? I thought this was a Linux thread...
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