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Old 05-06-2023, 10:20 PM   #41
CleoMenezesJr.
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Originally Posted by audiojunkie View Post
The biggest thing holding back Flatpak is that in order for it to work for audio, there needs to be industry buy-in. In other words, all plugins and DAWs that a person uses needs to be available as a Flatpak. Flatpak apps can work well together. It is difficult to mix Flatpak and non-Flatpak plugins and DAWs. Bitwig and open source plugins that have been packaged as Flatpaks tend to work well together. Everything else doesn’t. Until the whole industry goes “all in”, Flatpak is not going to be an ideal solution.
It's not like that. That there are plugins available for Flatpak is something great and honestly it would be really cool if more and more were available this way, but that doesn't stop you from putting your plugins wherever you want like for example in ~/vst3.
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Old 05-06-2023, 10:50 PM   #42
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It's not like that. That there are plugins available for Flatpak is something great and honestly it would be really cool if more and more were available this way, but that doesn't stop you from putting your plugins wherever you want like for example in ~/vst3.
It’s true that Flatpak can see your home directory, and that simple plugins can be saved that way, but it becomes highly unlikely when looking at the more complicated plugins and tools. Remember, most people using Flatpak will be using it for only a couple of reasons. The most common reason would be that it is a simple point and click process, as opposed to touching the commandline. New users will appreciate that. The second most likely reason for Flatpak use is that the app developers themselves can package once and yse across multiple, incompatible distros. Aside from these two primary reasons, there is little reason for Flatpak. Don’t misunderstand me—I like Flatpak and I think it solves the developer side of the problem better than the other competitors, but in order fir things to work well, either the developers need to make their tools fully accessible from the home folder, or else the tools need to be Flatpak’ed in order to work well within the host-client ecosystem. Otherwise, you just run into problems like the Wine/yabridge issue mentioned previously in this thread. This doesn’t make Flatpak easier for non-techie users to access the tools. In the end, for everything to work smoothly, hand-in-hand, it is going to take developers working together to make audio tools work better with the Flatpak exosystem in order for Flatpak to succeed with audio.
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Old 05-09-2023, 04:50 AM   #43
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I think the problem with Flatpaks and audio is that Flatpaks currently don't work as a 'classic' container alike Distrobox or Toolbox. If they were (e.g. if there was a 'system' flatpak of a sort that offers a terminal and a containerised environment) you would've been able to easily install Wine, yabridge, and everything else that normally works on a mutable system.

From my personal example, around 99% of stuff works inside Distrobox / Toolbox just as well as if they were installed on the system itself.

Now, someone may ask why the need for a Flatpak version when we have Distrobox / Toolbox. The answer is that, unlike Flatpak, Distrobox / Toolbox and similar are not clean enough. They are usually limited to ~HOME, but apps or libraries you install inside them still sometimes make a mess out of your home directory.

Flatpaks are more alike Apple's or AppImage's approach to containerisation: everything in one directory. This makes keeping your base system clean (and thus smoothly running for the foreseeable future) with no effort.
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Old 05-09-2023, 06:24 AM   #44
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Flatpaks are more alike Apple's or AppImage's approach to containerisation: everything in one directory. This makes keeping your base system clean (and thus smoothly running for the foreseeable future) with no effort.
As explained by @axel_ef, this isn't true of flatpak. See https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...guration-files.
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Old 05-09-2023, 06:55 AM   #45
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As explained by @axel_ef, this isn't true of flatpak. See https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...guration-files.
Well, it is significantly more true for Flatpaks than for installing a typical app and its dependencies directly on system.

The only reason why Flatpaks have configuration outside the data folder is to keep the configuration between installs -- and for backwards compatibility. In contrast to a fixed external config folder, other 'regular' apps can put their config (or any other files) almost anywhere on the system.
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Old 06-11-2023, 10:16 AM   #46
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Default REAPER is already on FlatHub?

https://flathub.org/apps/fm.reaper.Reaper

Finding that on FlatHub is what brought me back to this thread.
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Old 08-22-2023, 10:21 AM   #47
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Which Reaper problem should a flatpak solve?
It does not solve a REAPER problem. It is an attempt to solve an end user install inconsistency problem that exists globally in linux.

So, you're right, shipping as a flatpak won't make reaper better or easier. And, I understand the devs being conservative with change. Reaper is key to my workflow and I would not want anything messing with that. So, the idea of Reaper not being a leader here but instead being incredibly conservative makes a lot of sense. And it is understandable.

So, having a community supported flathub instance for now also makes a lot of sense. And, if in the future, things change enough that it makes sense to default to flatpak, then the devs can learn from the knowledge that the community will have gleaned over time.
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Old 08-22-2023, 10:30 AM   #48
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It is an attempt to solve an end user install inconsistency problem that exists globally in linux.
Which problem? You don't have to "install" Reaper. Unpacking is enough.
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Old 08-22-2023, 05:08 PM   #49
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We are at a philosophical impasse. I am not saying there is a problem with Reaper in any way shape or form. I clearly pointed out that the issue is bigger than Reaper, does not actually have to do with Reaper directly, and is likely best solved before anyone connected to this piece of software makes any changes whatsoever. The fact that you chose to ignore that to continue the argument tells me that you don't really want to have a discussion. I am so sorry to learn that. I thought we were here to share ideas.
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Old 08-25-2023, 06:58 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by axel_ef View Post
Which problem? You don't have to "install" Reaper. Unpacking is enough.
And then it has access to everything on your computer, ~HOME, /usr and /etc the least. Flatpaks solve:

- installing - click of a mouse
- dependency hell - pulls dependencies automatically, doesn't depend on distro's availability
- cleanliness - stuff doesn't get installed on base system
- security and privacy - apps don't get to access what you don't let them to
- updates - no dependencies missing from here or there, no messing with terminal, no manual unpacking
- etc.

EDIT: don't get me wrong, Flatpak has yet to mature. One example is terminal apps. But the direction where it's headed is awesome.

Last edited by /AND/; 08-26-2023 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 08-25-2023, 09:28 AM   #51
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And then it has access to everything on your computer, ~HOME, /usr and /etc the least.
You mean read access for /usr and /etc.
What should Reaper write to /usr or /etc?
Have you tried saving a project to /usr or /etc?
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Old 08-25-2023, 05:56 PM   #52
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You mean read access for /usr and /etc.
What should Reaper write to /usr or /etc?
Have you tried saving a project to /usr or /etc?
Yes, I meant read access. Meaning: broken security and/or privacy by being able to read them.
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Old 08-26-2023, 10:46 AM   #53
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- They can read whatever they want on my computer or what I've published on the internet, I've got nothing to hide!
- Yeah, but what if they make what you have or what you said illegal by tomorrow?


And sadly, that is what happened yesterday the 25th of August 2023, by enforcing the DSA in Europe.
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Old 08-26-2023, 11:57 AM   #54
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- They can read whatever they want on my computer or what I've published on the internet, I've got nothing to hide!
- Yeah, but what if they make what you have or what you said illegal by tomorrow?


And sadly, that is what happened yesterday the 25th of August 2023, by enforcing the DSA in Europe.
Stay in Canada. At least for now...
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Old 08-27-2023, 05:04 AM   #55
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- They can read whatever they want on my computer or what I've published on the internet, I've got nothing to hide!
I am yet to receive login passwords from those that have 'nothing to hide'.
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Old 08-27-2023, 10:37 AM   #56
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Be careful what you say, for a bird of the air will carry the report to the King
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Old 09-17-2023, 06:40 AM   #57
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How did you get your media explorer looking like that? With how the directories are above the file list and such.
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Old 09-17-2023, 07:13 AM   #58
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How did you get your media explorer looking like that? With how the directories are above the file list and such.
Action list -> Section: Media explorer -> Options: Vertical layout.
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Old 11-26-2023, 12:11 PM   #59
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Hello,

thanks to user CleoMenezesJr. for providing the flatpak version! I wanted to share a short experience which might be useful for people dealing with similar issues:
I was running the regular install of reaper on Debian 11 for quite some time, everything worked flawlessly. Before switching to Debian 12 on a different machine, I first exported my configuration (including plug-in lists etc..) of the old Reaper install.
Once running Debian 12, when I found out Reaper was available as flatpak, I installed it from flathub out of convenience and because I like the flatpak idea. I started the program and proceeded to load my old config, which, at first seemed to work just fine. But since then I've had 2 weird bugs come up repeatedly (on 2 different computers with similar setups btw): One of them is an immediate program crash on an older project (no plug-in issues!), the other one is a crash when switching themes and is explained here: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....=1#post2737241

Uninstalling the flatpak version and going back to a regular install solved both of these issues for me which leads to me relying on the regular install version for now. This is in no way to say that the flatpak is "buggy" or that it doesnt make sense! I highly appreciate the fact someone put in the work to publish a flatpak version! And apart from the valid counter-arguments already posted ("containerized" version already existing) I do think it might introduce new people to Reaper which I consider a good thing.

The main point of my post is just as a heads up for people who are experiencing issues with the reaper flatpak version, that these might be resolved by using the regular non-flatpak Reaper install. Please note that it could easily be that the issues are not inherent problems of the flatpak version but rather have been generated by loading my non-flatpak configuration into the new flatpak install, and that a "clean" flatpak install without the import of previous settings might work just as stable as the regular one.
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