Old 02-18-2023, 01:22 AM   #1
mschnell
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Default Linux on Apple Silicone

Just some reasoning on future compatibility options ...

I read about ASAHI Linux on Apple Silicone (e.g. Mac Mini) becoming more and more mature.
(I am not really sure if using same is advantageous over Mac OS...)

Did anybody already try this ?

Will the Reaper Linux/ARM version work ?
IMHO this re-activates the discussion about something similar to Wine/yabridge to allow for native MAC plugins running on Linux.
But maybe Windows on ARM might get more attention as well. Will the plugin manufactures be prepared ?

-Michael
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Old 02-18-2023, 12:26 PM   #2
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Can't say I tried this, but also interested in the results.
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Old 02-25-2023, 01:57 PM   #3
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bump
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Old 02-25-2023, 02:21 PM   #4
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GPU acceleration is not supported yet for Linux on apple silicon.
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Old 02-26-2023, 03:44 AM   #5
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I understand this is being worked on.

OTOH, is this very essential regarding Reaper and plugins ?

And regarding a discussion on the "strategic" questions in the top message, IMHO this issue can be ignored.

-Michael
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Old 02-26-2023, 05:42 AM   #6
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I just learned that Reaper in fact works fine on ASAHI, including Video editing.

-Michael
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Old 02-26-2023, 02:56 PM   #7
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Just bought a Mac mini M1, installed ASAHI and Reaper. So far it works, even without any OS tweaking, a simple project, buffer 128.
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Old 02-26-2023, 03:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
GPU acceleration is not supported yet for Linux on apple silicon.
Seems pretty successful:

https://asahilinux.org/2022/12/gpu-d...n-asahi-linux/
-Michael
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Old 03-13-2023, 02:22 PM   #9
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Hi folks. I Bought a mac mini (after testing out Asahi Linux on a macbook) specifically for Reaper production. $400 on ebay.

EVERYTHING* works great! My entire podcast workflow for my weekly podcast (lostterminal.com) and my fortnightly-posting youtube channel (noboilerplate.org) is perfect, and render times are THROUGH THE ROOF, and this machine doesn't even have fans.

GPU hardware acceleration works since Dec 2022, but I don't think this would have been a blocker anyway. The CPU is so fast that when I tested before Dec, 4k youtube videos and every app worked fine.

TLDR: If you have been curious, buy a second hand m1 mac mini now.

---

* The only disadvantage is this is a new CPU platform - ARM not x64. So any programs (or plugins) must have versions that work on ARM (it's called AARCH64, specifically).
Reaper's team release versions for ARM, as do Renoise. But Bitwig doesn't at least not yet. I've moved my entire music composition from Bitwig to Renoise for this reason (with mastering in Reaper). This has been tough, and I hope they will build Bitwig for ARM soon. (I understand the core is written in Java, so it should be easy to port).

If anyone has a suggestion for an incredible synth/sample vst that works with reaper and arm, I'd LOVE to know! Redux is not yet compiled for ARM.

But even this CPU disadvantage has its corollary: The Raspberry Pi.

I've been astonished how many projects build ARM binaries, even though this is a SUPER new cpu for linux. Only, it's actually not. It's only SLIGHTLY different (afaik) from building for Raspberry Pi. So many projects just HAVE versions that work out of the box because they've been targeting raspberry pi for years.

Fantastic. I might buy a second hand macbook air once they fix the last few device drivers.
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Old 03-13-2023, 04:09 PM   #10
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GREAT !!!

As discussed in this forum rather often, by far not all important 3rd party plugins are available for Linux. On x86/64 hardware, Windows versions can be used via Wine (even not right out of the box, but the yabridge seems to be improving day by day.) BUT NOT FOR ARM
Now that plugins for Mac NEED do be moving to native ARM64, it would be very desirable to have a Wine/yabridge- alike bridging tool for MACOS plugins.
Yet up til now I did not see a considerable move in that direction.
If Kontakt for ASAHI is available, I might consider to take a plunge ....

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 03-14-2023 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 03-14-2023, 11:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namtao View Post
... this machine doesn't even have fans.
It does, unless your machine's fan is broken.

Anyway, thanks for reporting on this, I was mightily curious!
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Old 03-14-2023, 03:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by /AND/ View Post
It does, unless your machine's fan is broken.
It's known that the fans of the Mini close to never are heard. That is a reason why I am considering using such one day (currently I am on a fanless PC).
-Michael
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Old 03-15-2023, 06:10 AM   #13
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I tried. It was fun for about 5 minutes.
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Old 03-15-2023, 02:33 PM   #14
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What is that supposed to mean ?

-Michael
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Old 03-16-2023, 05:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
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What is that supposed to mean ?
Well, take it pretty much literally. The "fun" was to see how easy (or not) it was to install. It was easy. Uninstalling was a bit trickier, but this video helped https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMnWTq2H-N0

Beside that, there was really no point, for my computing needs, to do the install.
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Old 03-16-2023, 06:48 AM   #16
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Why uninstall ? Can't it do dual boot ?
-Michael
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Old 03-16-2023, 09:27 AM   #17
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Well, it takes some space and if you are limited (Macs have traditionally very expensive SSD space) you might think twice before installing it.

I am actually looking forward to discover whether ASAHI can be installed and booted from an external SSD. Read/write speeds through USB4 on the Mac are upward of 2MBit/s, which are almost unbelievably fast and should theoretically be more than enough for any kind of play while keeping the original drive inside untouched.
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Old 03-20-2023, 12:10 PM   #18
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Linux 6.2: The first mainstream Linux kernel for Apple M1 chips arrives

"The main problem with the M1 for me is the GPU and other devices around it because that's likely what would hold me off using it because it wouldn't have any Linux support unless Apple opens up."

Fortunately, Asahi Linux, with brilliant software engineer Alyssa Rosenzweig, was up to the challenge. By July 31, 2022, Torvalds was pleased to announce that after "waiting for a _loong_ time, [Linux on ARM and the M1 in specific was] finally reality, thanks to the Asahi team. We've had arm64 hardware around running Linux for a long time, but none of it has really been usable as a development platform until now."

Today, this support is finally ready for mainline Linux users.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-...chips-arrives/
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Old 03-21-2023, 12:47 AM   #19
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YEAH !
Now waiting for Native Instruments, to do a port for Kontakt

-Michael
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Old 03-27-2023, 09:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namtao View Post
If anyone has a suggestion for an incredible synth/sample vst that works with reaper and arm, I'd LOVE to know! Redux is not yet compiled for ARM.
Still testing, but these are the synths that work with Reaper on my Mac mini Asahi install:

Vitalium (a fork of Vital) (LV2)
Osirus (ex-DSP56300 - Access Virus B/C clone) (VST, CLAP)
Odin2 (VST, LV2, CLAP)
Surge XT (VST3, LV2, CLAP)
Dexed (VST3, CLAP)
TAL Noize M4k3r (LV2)
Yoshimi (LV2)
ZynAddSubFx (VST, LV2)
synthv1 (LV2)
padthv1 (LV2)
samplv1 (LV2)

Also installed, but with various issues:
Helm (VST, LV2) - stuttering sound
Cardinal (CLAP) - no UI

IIRC, apart from Osirus, I installed all of them via pacman/yay.

The first eight from the above list would be in my Top 12 list of non-commercial native Linux synths anyway, with Vital, Osirus and Odin2 occupying top three positions. I do miss some u-he freebies, Podolski, Zebralette etc., but don't feel significantly constrained.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to install any of the drum machines/samplers (Sitala, Speedrum, Geonkick, TAL Drum) so Reaper's ReaSamplOmatic5000 seems to be the only game in town. That will require some workflow adjustments.
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Old 03-27-2023, 12:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre34 View Post
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to install any of the drum machines/samplers (Sitala, Speedrum, Geonkick, TAL Drum) so Reaper's ReaSamplOmatic5000 seems to be the only game in town. That will require some workflow adjustments.
Thank you for your testing and report. Linux on Apple still not quite there yet it seems.
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Old 03-27-2023, 01:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
Thank you for your testing and report. Linux on Apple still not quite there yet it seems.
It's just a shame that plugin makers don't see the need.

In a perfect world Reaper/Linux would come with a "bridge" that simply loads Apple spec plugins (of the appropriate architecture.)

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 03-27-2023 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 03-27-2023, 02:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
Thank you for your testing and report. Linux on Apple still not quite there yet it seems.
I tend to look at it from the glass half-full perspective. Of course, the set of plugins that I'm currently playing with is just a small subset of currently available native Linux plugins, which in turn is just a small subset of currently available Windows/Mac plugins...

... and yet just, say, Vitalium, Osirus and Dexed give me access to an absolutely immense and mind-boggling wealth of synth presets, colours, textures... to the point that adding to that overabundance could effectively be a distraction.

Linux on Apple will probably never be there, just like Linux itself will never be there, because "there" keeps growing much faster due to its force of gravity. But if there's anything stopping me from being as creative and productive as I can be with this Mac mini based Linux install it's the days that are too short, not the list of compatible plugins.

I'll make do without a drum sampler. I'll use a combination of RS5K and audio tracks for drums. If they never make another synth plugin arm-compatible, right now it doesn't seem to me as it would be such a bad thing.

Last edited by Pre34; 03-27-2023 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 03-27-2023, 02:57 PM   #24
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I am confused as to why all or most of the plugins don't just work through Rosetta 2? Or am I missing something?
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Old 03-27-2023, 03:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by /AND/ View Post
I am confused as to why all or most of the plugins don't just work through Rosetta 2? Or am I missing something?
Rosetta 2 is a MacOS application for Apple Silicon computers (arm-based M1 and M2 processors).

This discussion is about the Linux distro (Asahi), developed for said Apple Silicon computers, and native Linux plugins compatible with the arm architecture.
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Old 03-27-2023, 11:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by /AND/ View Post
I am confused as to why all or most of the plugins don't just work through Rosetta 2? Or am I missing something?
Reaper/Linux can run Windows plugins via Wine and friends such as yabridge, but not Appl spec plugins, as there is no Wine equivalent for MacOS based software (yet).
-Michael
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Old 03-29-2023, 09:58 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Reaper/Linux can run Windows plugins via Wine and friends such as yabridge, but not Appl spec plugins, as there is no Wine equivalent for MacOS based software (yet).
-Michael
That makes sense, thank you.
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Old 03-29-2023, 12:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
there is no Wine equivalent for MacOS based software (yet).
-Michael
In fact there is "Darling", but I don't have any clue if that is a viable thing.
Did anybody try this ?

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 03-29-2023 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 03-30-2023, 01:57 PM   #29
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Today I found out that there's a Linux version of Pianoteq for arm processors, actually two versions, both 32 and 64-bit. So I installed the Pianoteq 8 demo. Neither Asahi nor Win10 could extract the downloaded 7z file, it kept reporting errors, but I just copied the lv2 folder. It worked immediately and it's rather impressive. It's not cheap and I'm not a piano player, but I decided it's worth buying for its excellent electric pianos alone.

However, when the 20-minute demo period expired and I was supposed to reload it, Reaper froze. Turns out, no matter what I do - remove the plugin, reload the plugin, close the project, quit Reaper - Pianoteq always makes Reaper freeze. The same thing happened with Ardour.

Then I tried to install it the proper way, via AUR, but I got this:

ERROR: pianoteq_linux_trial_v805.7z was not found in the build directory and is not a URL.
-> error making: pianoteq-standard-trial-bin-exit status 1
-> Failed to install the following packages. Manual intervention is required:
pianoteq-standard-trial-bin - exit status 1

And that's where my modest familiarity with under the hood functionality of Linux hits the wall.
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Old 03-30-2023, 02:30 PM   #30
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This is what I was able to dig out, but don't know what to do with it:

https://gist.github.com/SpotlightKid...d-pianoteq8-sh

Improved AUR PKGBUILD for Pianoteq 8

CHANGES
- Updated description
- Updated URL
- Uppercase name in desktop file
- Install binary as "Pianoteq 8" and make a link to "pianoteq8"
- Link VST2 plugin shared lib to LV2 one, they are the same
- Support arm 32/64 bit
- Cleaned up unnecessary complicated install commands
- Use SHA256 hash sums (shorter and sufficiently secure)
- Removed obsolete makedepends
- Added soname depends
- Added optdepends
- PKGBUILD syntax clean-up


PKGBUILD-pianoteq8.sh
# Maintainer: Christopher Arndt <aur -at- chrisarndt -dot- de>
# Contributor: napaalm <nap@napaalm.xyz>
# Contributor: spider-mario <spidermario@free.fr>

_name="Pianoteq 8"
pkgname=pianoteq
pkgver=8.0.5
pkgrel=2
pkgdesc="Physical modelling piano instrument as a standalone program, VST2 and LV2 plugin"
arch=(aarch64 armv7h x86_64)
url='https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq'
license=(custom)
depends=(freetype2 gcc-libs glibc ttf-font libxext)
makedepends=(gendesk)
optdepends=(
'jack: for using the JACK backend'
'lv2-host: for loading the LV2 plugin'
'vst-host: for loading the VST2 plugin'
)
conflicts=(pianoteq-stage pianoteq-standard-trial-bin)
# The source package must be downloaded manually.
# This can be done by going to the link here:
# https://www.modartt.com/download?fil..._linux_v805.7z
source=("local://pianoteq_linux_v${pkgver//./}.7z"
'https://www.pianoteq.com/images/logo/pianoteq_icon_128.png')
sha256sums=('1b75f3f034a9c6e3348606457425e652da239 2a8b00755b33fc51f24c335a91e'
'94ee64cf6688a49d74f0bf70d811e7466abac103feeab1749 6a89f828afcc6d3')

prepare() {
gendesk -f -n \
--pkgname "$pkgname" \
--pkgdesc "$pkgdesc" \
--name='Pianoteq 8' \
--exec='"pianoteq8"' \
--categories 'Audio;Sequencer;Midi;AudioVideoEditing;Music;Audi oVideo;'
}

package() {
depends+=(libfreetype.so libasound.so)
cd "$_name"

# Define architecture specific directory
# (i686 is no longer supported):
if [[ "$CARCH" == x86_64 ]]; then
_archdir=x86-64bit
elif [[ "$CARCH" == armv7h ]]; then
_archdir=arm-32bit
elif [[ "$CARCH" == aarch64 ]]; then
_archdir=arm-64bit
fi

# Install the program files:
install -Dm 755 "$_archdir/$_name" -t "$pkgdir"/usr/bin
ln -sf "$_name" "$pkgdir"/usr/bin/${pkgname}${pkgver%%.*}

# Install the LV2 plugin bundle:
install -Dm644 "$_archdir/$_name.lv2"/*.ttl -t "$pkgdir/usr/lib/lv2/$_name.lv2"
install -Dm755 "$_archdir/$_name.lv2"/${_name/ /_}.so -t "$pkgdir/usr/lib/lv2/$_name.lv2"

# Install the VST2 plugin (same binary as the one in the LV2 bundle):
install -dm755 "$pkgdir"/usr/lib/vst
ln -sf "../lv2/$_name.lv2/${_name/ /_}.so" "$pkgdir/usr/lib/vst/$_name.so"

# Install desktop launcher:
install -Dm 644 "$srcdir"/pianoteq_icon_128.png "$pkgdir"/usr/share/pixmaps/$pkgname.png
install -Dm 644 "$srcdir"/$pkgname.desktop -t "$pkgdir"/usr/share/applications/

# Install the license:
install -Dm644 Licence* -t "$pkgdir"/usr/share/licenses/$pkgname

# Install the documentation:
install -Dm644 README_LINUX.txt Documentation/* -t "$pkgdir"/usr/share/doc/$pkgname
}
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Old 03-30-2023, 03:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre34 View Post
Rosetta 2 is a MacOS application for Apple Silicon computers (arm-based M1 and M2 processors).

This discussion is about the Linux distro (Asahi), developed for said Apple Silicon computers, and native Linux plugins compatible with the arm architecture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Reaper/Linux can run Windows plugins via Wine and friends such as yabridge, but not Appl spec plugins, as there is no Wine equivalent for MacOS based software (yet).
-Michael
Ah, yes, sorry, got confused. Wrong subforum
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Old 03-31-2023, 01:29 PM   #32
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Another day, another surprise. And today, Pianoteq (8 Standard demo) has been playing nice with both Reaper and Ardour, without me having touched anything in the meantime.

Very pleased with the sound and general feel. M1 CPU consumption in Reaper: 0,5-1,5%. I need to keep slapping the keyboard flat with both hands for it to exceed 2%, and it won't happen with every preset.
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Old 04-06-2023, 12:37 PM   #33
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Did those of you, who did install asahi, compare the battery life of asahi with macOS?

Is it yet possible to lower the display brightness? At the last update I saw on asahi this was not possible. And Youtube videos were playing without sound. Does this work now?
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Old 05-04-2023, 06:19 AM   #34
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Happy to report that the beta version of Vavra works well in Reaper under Asahi Linux, on a Mac mini M1. Vavra is the brilliant new synth plugin by The Usual Suspects, a Waldorf Micro Q clone.

Also, Helm now behaves well.

The current arsenal of native Linux instrument plugins on Apple Silicone:

Odin2 (VST, LV2, CLAP)
Osirus (Access Virus B/C clone) (VST, CLAP)
Vavra (Waldorf Micro Q clone) (VST, CLAP)
Vitalium (a fork of Vital) (LV2)
Helm (VST, LV2)
Surge XT (VST3, LV2, CLAP)
Dexed (VST3, CLAP)
TAL Noize M4k3r (LV2)
Yoshimi (LV2)
ZynAddSubFx (VST, LV2)
synthv1 (LV2)
padthv1 (LV2)
samplv1 (LV2)
+
AVL Drumkits (LV2)
+
Pianoteq 8 (LV2), commercial

Last edited by Pre34; 05-04-2023 at 08:54 AM. Reason: forgot to include AVL Drumkits
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