Old 12-10-2019, 03:02 PM   #481
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Everyone should just use mine, it is objectively the greatest theme ever created
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Old 12-10-2019, 03:39 PM   #482
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Everyone should just use mine, it is objectively the greatest theme ever created
It's too light.
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Old 12-10-2019, 04:43 PM   #483
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C'mon, Ken Enjoyer...you're coming off like a fanboy or something! Just kidding, I'm looking forward to more Reaper 6 videos.

I'm personally not fond of the 50 shades of dark grey theme, especially in the midi editor. So I loaded up my trusty default 4.0 theme and everything is all good for me, although I can understand the disappointment of some. Maybe this can be my excuse to upgrade my monitor to get some kind of contrast with the new theme.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:06 PM   #484
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All this bullshit from the poorly done v6 theme, it's driving people away, creating ill will where the was much less before, potentially losing new customers.....

If the damn egocentric {blank}hats could just man up a bit and admit they could do better..

It's so ridiculous that a simple phrase something like " we're sorry we may have not achieved the satisfaction we have achieved in the past with this new release, we will be working to correct that in future updates"

No more advocacy, no more of my money is going to Reaper - just beacause of watching so much stubborn defense of obvious flaws as pointed out by so many. Not once has there been a hint that anyone responsible does or will care about any if the issues raised...

F'n sad....
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:14 PM   #485
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Please read thru the comments on this video to get an idea of how the theme is being received outside the forum. Thanks.

https://youtu.be/I8LTBlNzmhA
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:15 PM   #486
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Didn't nait make an excellent point? Let's just ignore it shall we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nait View Post
A reminder of the most important objective issue:
My monitor is very well calibrated. Who the hell thinks that is a great color combination? Never mind, sorry I asked.

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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Agreed with this. Would be nice if Kenny responded to this instead of trying to pacify.
Kenny was obviously one of the testers, so don't be disrespecting him, or his catchy version release slogans, understand?

I think I'm going to steal his latest trick too, see if you can spot it:

Quote:
If you've already said something, please shut up.

Thanks

JHughes
Ah yes, the soon to be classic greenie/Thanks combo; slays them every time. Almost as good as really forced pepperoni pizza analogies.

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I'm not going to lock this thread (for obvious reasons)
No, not obvious, but I acknowledge your magnamanity.

And yeah, I too love the way WT fails to explain things. Because, you know, his testers are better than you with your decades of graphical interface experience, and your talk of "standards" and "rules" and front facing "customer service". Pish posh! But then, he's always been a rather prickly pear. I also loved how he took the theme job, when, as he admits, he knows nothing about scripting. And, as Justin admits, his scripting language is not programmer friendly. And, as WT has said, he was presented with all kinds of insurmountable limitations not to his liking. Wow. So, why didn't Cockos give the job to a scripter and let WT polish the graphics? Is it a pride thing? You do know what that goeth before, donteth you?

Speaking of "pride"---you know, the theme color combo I saw mentioned somewhere? Hey, we all know the rainbow didn't exist until 1978, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a troglodyte fascist bent on historical revision. Like that hater Isaac Newton for example.

So make sure to look for your pot of gold at the end of your pride, mmkay?

But seriously folks, since this is a topic about V6 theme likes and dislikes, and I'm never one to go off topic---

LIKE: Let me say that the mix of flat and 3D graphics don't bother me at all, as they do draw my eye to the important bits, exactly as WT intended. So I give kudos for what I think was a bold move which was bound to draw criticism from haters concerned with screenshot looks and not functionality.

DISLIKE: What I don't like is that the left channel pan is red. Everyone knows that the right channel is red, just look at the Nitpicky Edition for proof. (Here's to you Lokasenna.)

Also...Cockos missed a big opportunity to quit calling things "phase" that are in fact not. Maybe one of these days.

Also again...has that seizure inducing flickery playhead been fixed yet?

Well, gotta run. Keep up the fantastic work, and I'll see you at the deli! (No smelly Wal-Mart people allowed.)

XOXO
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:21 PM   #487
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Ah yes, the soon to be classic greenie/Thanks combo; slays them every time. Almost as good as really forced pepperoni pizza analogies.
A word of advice. When playing "divide and conquer", it's best not to introduce "good cop, bad cop" as a sub-strategy.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:37 PM   #488
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I'm just gonna put a few quotes from the video here for those who don't want to go on YouTube.

"Guess version 6 is the one where I actually buy a license."

"Absolute perfection. The only thing it didn’t have was good looks and now even that is better than fixed"

"This theme is a home run, especially the fonts and colors. Good job WT."

"I was not expecting the visual changes. Reaper just gets better and better."

"Unbelievable, i was literally just trying to figure out how to darken the default theme as its my fav but too bright, this is perfect im sold!"

"Looks like Reaper finally in 2020 instead of 2009."

"Wow.... the biggest gripe I have/had with Reaper was its very old-school look and feel, but this looks like a big step up... well done Reaper."

"Really cool, I generally don't care for changes like this, but I was blown away with the detail, I love it, "

"V6 looks amazing, Thanks for the overview Kenny"

I scrolled down a lot and couldn't find a negative comment about the theme. ❤️

Edit: I just scrolled down just a little further and found a negative comment: "Facepalm! Default theme is unusable". But still, I'd call 90% positive a big success.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:42 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Please read thru the comments on this video to get an idea of how the theme is being received outside the forum. Thanks.

https://youtu.be/I8LTBlNzmhA
The theme does look great at first glance.

The problem is usability.

You won't get comments on that from people that just watched a video. Almost nobody is going to watch the video, open up REAPER and use it for an hour or two, then go back to the video to comment.

And let's be real... pointing to youtube comments as evidence of any semblance of intelligent thought is just a losing argument
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Old 12-10-2019, 07:01 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
The theme does look great at first glance.

The problem is usability.

You won't get comments on that from people that just watched a video. Almost nobody is going to watch the video, open up REAPER and use it for an hour or two, then go back to the video to comment.

And let's be real... pointing to youtube comments as evidence of any semblance of intelligent thought is just a losing argument
I've used the theme plenty and I like it. Does my opinion not count? I guess I'm just blindly defending the theme and my opinion isn't to be taken seriously.

No one is saying that there are zero problems, but the constructive feedback gets drowned out by all the noise of people talking about "science" without citing any sources (the whole point of science is backing up your claims with reliable sources or experiments and data. If you don't do that, it's not science) and appealing to "common sense" which is just a fancy way of saying "everyone else says so too".
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Old 12-10-2019, 07:21 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
And let's be real... pointing to youtube comments as evidence of any semblance of intelligent thought is just a losing argument
So… where SHOULD one look to get conclusions like this?

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All this bullshit from the poorly done v6 theme, it's driving people away, creating ill will where the was much less before, potentially losing new customers.....
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Old 12-10-2019, 07:57 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
The theme does look great at first glance.

The problem is usability.

You won't get comments on that from people that just watched a video. Almost nobody is going to watch the video, open up REAPER and use it for an hour or two, then go back to the video to comment.

And let's be real... pointing to youtube comments as evidence of any semblance of intelligent thought is just a losing argument
I thought the new theme looked okay when I first installed. I've gone back to v5 after a bit. v6 is a bit of a dog's breakfast with too many problems as many others have pointed out. I doubt Cockos will take any notice tho as UX is not their interest. Hopefully some good new themes emerge from the userbase.
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Old 12-10-2019, 08:11 PM   #493
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...
I think you're going hard bro it's not worse than v5 theme and that's the good thing. Reaper is in constant progress. Just give it time and almost evrything you can think of will get a touch of more love.
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Old 12-10-2019, 10:08 PM   #494
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That thin hardcoded *meh* PAN-line of *NooOo way!* has made me go with the dual pan as default now and should have done that years ago it turns out, so something good come out of it.

And we got an easy option for what not to show on the TCP now and no, don't really need to see everything there (admit) that the mixer has on it anyway so the TCP can be on one row and the REC can expand it should I need to see more and the 150% TCP at minimized height makes the items forced to be the size I like 'em anyway. (December mr.positive)
So with that "logic" I could go Aware and DPI-translated 150%, I am not a 200+ track guy anyway and all is large and very easy to see and look at, even toolbars are large.

And the devs have worked hard on this so, better try it.

Ps, 35" 3440x1440
.. and since The Borg obviously are Swedish I better try adapt/tweak.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:36 AM   #495
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LIKE: Let me say that the mix of flat and 3D graphics don't bother me at all, as they do draw my eye to the important bits, exactly as WT intended. So I give kudos for what I think was a bold move which was bound to draw criticism from haters concerned with screenshot looks and not functionality.
Fair enough. And this is a way to draw attention to important bits. Agreed.

(Too bad that you could have the exact same effect, utilizing the dominant design language of the theme, achieving coherency, and would take not much more effort to do so.)

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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
So… where SHOULD one look to get conclusions like this?
Do you also take into account those users who can't get past the interface and drop Reaper altogether? Or those undecided users coming from other platforms?

Do you forget that Reaper's UI has been one of the most criticized aspects of the software? Since... forever? Do we pretend it's all good now?

The people in this forum have the intention and spirit (and many, the experience) to shape Reaper into a better product for everyone. If you think denialism, and arrogance can take us in that direction, you're right in thinking that the Reaper 7 theme thread will continue the tradition of this one.

Last edited by Evan; 12-11-2019 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:32 AM   #496
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I've used the theme plenty and I like it. Does my opinion not count? I guess I'm just blindly defending the theme and my opinion isn't to be taken seriously.

No one is saying that there are zero problems, but the constructive feedback gets drowned out by all the noise of people talking about "science" without citing any sources (the whole point of science is backing up your claims with reliable sources or experiments and data. If you don't do that, it's not science) and appealing to "common sense" which is just a fancy way of saying "everyone else says so too".
What I've come to terms with over the past few days, and you should too if you want to save yourself the inner turmoil, is that I am objectively and scientifically wrong when I think that the V6 default theme is the most useable yet.

We are the REAPER flat earth society, and living in denial of obvious facts and science.

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Old 12-11-2019, 02:42 AM   #497
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What I've come to terms with over the past few days, and you should too if you want to save yourself the inner turmoil, is that I am objectively and scientifically wrong when I think that the V6 default theme is the most useable yet.

We are the REAPER flat earth society, and living in denial of obvious facts and science.

I realised I have monumentally bad taste and poor judgement with regard to this theme. Indeed my inherent bias is such that for the first time I find myself using the default theme over all the other options. Sheer bloody mindedness.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:56 AM   #498
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The theme does look great at first glance.
The problem is usability.
...
For me this post highlights just how differently people are perceiving this GUI.
My reaction was the exact opposite.
At first glance the 6 theme doesn't look all that much (and the failure to extend theming to all areas yet again disappointed). The great strength of the theme is useability.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:49 AM   #499
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Over and over and over again, the point being made here is that REAPER offers options, and the default theme is an option that suits some, and not others - wow! Perhaps that explains why Pop music lovers don't go and buy Classical albums?

The theme will be expanded on and improved in many forms as we all know. But really, it's as though some people like to sit on their arses and swipe at anyone who actually does something. Strikes me as a form of jealousy. To take that further and start to validate people's opinions based on the place they visit/post online is just a whole level more of ignorance and insular thinking.

If you're so well versed and knowledgable in what makes a good theme/workflow then put time into changing the theme to what you want rather than posting on forums playing playground arguments?
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:05 AM   #500
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I don't know why the ver 6 theme is being referred as new theme, it looks like just a reworked ver 5 theme.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:42 AM   #501
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What I've come to terms with over the past few days, and you should too if you want to save yourself the inner turmoil, is that I am objectively and scientifically wrong when I think that the V6 default theme is the most useable yet.

We are the REAPER flat earth society, and living in denial of obvious facts and science.

Nice!
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:01 AM   #502
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Dark font on dark background is what the reason I stopped using FL studio.
I hope this could be changed from Theme Adjuster.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:20 AM   #503
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This thread is obviously put there for people to vent. Do not expect changes or fixes to be made according to the issues you point out: they have all been addressed prior to the official release.

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Old 12-11-2019, 02:52 PM   #504
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So… where SHOULD one look to get conclusions like this?
Looking for data to prove what you want proven is not the way to go about anything. Just as you can point to X or Y to say "hey some people like it", I can point elsewhere to say that people don't. I don't understand why you'd make this about people's opinions when you're rallying against opinions.

So we clearly agree that's a waste of time. Once again, how about we talk about the actual issues presented?

Like say...



How do you feel about the selection colours in that image? The selected notes are the same colour as the unselected notes.

It also only manifests with certain configurations of the default theme, which makes it even more baffling to encounter.

That's a fairly big issue is it not?
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:11 PM   #505
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How do you feel about the selection colours in that image? The selected notes are the same colour as the unselected notes.
I can clearly see the selected have white border, have you tried correcting your monitor, i work with MIDI a lot and don't have an issue with seeing the selected notes with new default theme.

Maybe post a before selection and after selection screenshot may help show the issue you're having? Also, is that a custom colour map you're using as it looks different to my editor but i do have the velocity handles enabled which changes the appearance somewhat.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:26 PM   #506
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have you tried correcting your monitor
Telling someone with visual issues that require them to configure their monitor a certain way to correct their monitor is perhaps a bit rude.

Seriously, he's mentioned it several times on the last page or so of this thread.

At any rate, I agree with him. Ignoring the handles, I can only tell which notes are selected because they're a pixel or two larger with the border. Compare this to v5, where you can tell which notes are selected from across the room:

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Old 12-11-2019, 03:30 PM   #507
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I thought the new theme looked okay when I first installed. I've gone back to v5 after a bit. v6 is a bit of a dog's breakfast with too many problems as many others have pointed out. I doubt Cockos will take any notice tho as UX is not their interest. Hopefully some good new themes emerge from the userbase.
I have found after trying many many themes that the best Themes for me are modified default themes. Anything that strays too for from default loses too much functionality IMO.

I'm Not a fan of the v6 default. Although I wasn't a fan of the V5 default either

So Hopefully we have some modified default themes to choose from in due time.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:30 PM   #508
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So you can't see the third bar is selected here? It's clear as day for me (?!).



And it's in no way rude to suggest to check monitor settings if someones asking for help in a visual issue, grow up ffs.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:35 PM   #509
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Looking for data to prove what you want proven is not the way to go about anything. Just as you can point to X or Y to say "hey some people like it", I can point elsewhere to say that people don't. I don't understand why you'd make this about people's opinions when you're rallying against opinions.

So we clearly agree that's a waste of time. Once again, how about we talk about the actual issues presented?

Like say...



How do you feel about the selection colours in that image? The selected notes are the same colour as the unselected notes.

It also only manifests with certain configurations of the default theme, which makes it even more baffling to encounter.

That's a fairly big issue is it not?
There's already a thread for that issue where most people agree that this is an issue (myself included *gasp*). Why not keep that discussion there?

And I don't think that was better before, that's why I disabled colors for velocity in the first place. But maybe I don't remember it correctly. Overall, the color scheme in the midi editor in V5 was a mess and the main reason, I started looking for another theme. I don't want to go back there.

I'm really tempted to give the same advice a lot of newbies get here. If you don't like Reaper, go get another DAW. Or stick with old version. You knew what you where getting when you bought it. You're not entitled to any (non-)changes or updates, and no one is forcing anyone to upgrade.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:37 PM   #510
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There's already a thread for that issue where most people agree that this is an issue (myself included *gasp*). Why not keep that discussion there?
Because this thread is quite literally called "Reaper V6 Default Theme Likes/Dislikes".

I dislike that.

Seems pretty topical.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:45 PM   #511
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Because this thread is quite literally called "Reaper V6 Default Theme Likes/Dislikes".

I dislike that.

Seems pretty topical.
I can't really argue with that. Although you called it an issue, and not a dislike. Those are different. There's really no reason to argue over likes and dislikes because they are subjective.

The thread derailed after people started calling the theme objectively bad or downright unusable, which is complete nonsense.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:50 PM   #512
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So hard to see, right? lol

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Old 12-11-2019, 03:55 PM   #513
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How do you feel about the selection colours in that image?
I feel that it is not default - are you testing things yourself with vanilla portable installs or am I missing a coloring options?

Vanilla out of the box - there's no way not to see these:



Changed to color by pitch - There is room for improvement but not what you showed in your screenshot - the literal difference is V6 came out at 2.5:1 and V5 3.5:1 - My advice is to be careful talking accessibility - meaning you need to find the rule that would apply to something like selected/non-selected MIDI items, then manually enter the hex colors into a contrast checker tool - I'm quite pro accessibility but it has to be analyzed properly and correctly.



V5 Color by pitch - not animated:




All I wanted to mention is people are going to look silly if we don't at least test with and argue about initial defaults - otherwise, no one is talking about the same thing and if default is usable then this is a misdirected discussion.
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:40 PM   #514
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I am not having the visibility problem - but something I do find annoying in the midi editor is found doing this
open new project
insert midi item
add cc lanes
set default curve to bezier

close reaper without saving

open new project
insert midi item
you now have all those cc lanes and there is no obvious way to get rid of them
the default curve is linear

so Reaper has remembered the cc lanes from an unsaved project adn set them as default but not remembered that the default cc editing curve has been set to bezier

I imagine there is a way to fix all of this but it is not at all obvious what that way is
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:01 PM   #515
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@karbomusic : I'm going to have to re-test on my own PC just to see, but I'm a little less adamant that selected items don't display well.. status for me is changed to "not perfect, but not terrible" (based on the good screenshot another poster posted that doesn't look so bad to me with every velocity in there)

However, just for clarity, the key part in Robert's post that you missed was that his MIDI items had different velocities. This colors them all differently (vanilla R6!), similar to color by pitch. Pre R6, selecting used to select everything as one color, now it is a blend(tint) of a yellow and the color of velocity, as far as I can tell. Not super easy to make out, imo, but not terrible either. But I've disabled that on my theme anyways as I prefer it the old way.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:02 PM   #516
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However, just for clarity, the key part in Robert's post that you missed was that his MIDI items had different velocities. This colors them all differently (vanilla R6!), similar to color by pitch.
I'll test but I thought he was using lowellben's screenshot.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:04 PM   #517
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I'll test but I thought he was using lowellben's screenshot.
If I recall, you are an audio master, but really don't use MIDI (so pardon me for pointing out the obvious if I'm wrong on that)... but I will point out that the screenshot in his post clearly shows the velocity changes on the bottom portion of the pic. (those vertical bars)
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:08 PM   #518
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Changed to color by pitch - There is room for improvement but not what you showed in your screenshot - the literal difference is V6 came out at 2.5:1 and V5 3.5:1 - My advice is to be careful talking accessibility - meaning you need to find the rule that would apply to something like selected/non-selected MIDI items, then manually enter the hex colors into a contrast checker tool - I'm quite pro accessibility but it has to be analyzed properly and correctly.
In your example with the vanilla the problem still exists, but I think we're crossing wires on what the problem is.



If we looked at a screen that showed unselected notes, then we could easily tell which notes were selected.

However, simply looking at a screen of selected notes (which happens fairly frequently for me), it's very difficult to see what's selected and what is not.

With 5.0 the ambiguity is much less:



The difference is that in 5.0 selected notes are the brightly coloured notes.

In 6.0 you can have brightly coloured unselected notes, and brightly coloured selected notes.

---

Side note - I don't like bringing in any sort of accessibility specifics for myself into the discussion, however I've always been a proponent for designing for the lesser capable users. It's only a coincidence that I'm now one of those users myself.

I only brought it up earlier because I think telling someone to change their computing habits as a "solution" is not a rational response in this sort of discussion.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:09 PM   #519
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I'll test but I thought he was using lowellben's screenshot.
I was. I was hoping it'd be something we (as a community) could restart this discussion upon since it was the first arguably objective thing mentioned here.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:25 PM   #520
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However, just for clarity, the key part in Robert's post that you missed was that his MIDI items had different velocities. This colors them all differently (vanilla R6!), similar to color by pitch. Pre R6, selecting used to select everything as one color, now it is a blend(tint) of a yellow and the color of velocity, as far as I can tell. Not super easy to make out, imo, but not terrible either. But I've disabled that on my theme anyways as I prefer it the old way.
I tested... I don't know how to respond but I will with how I truly think about it and take my chances...

1. I can see how it would be a problem if someone has eyesight issues or they work very fast where it could add some time for a "double take" to check. If there is a way to color map those or easily adjust just contrast or something without hacking config files it would be certainly worthwhile.

2. The only problem I had with #1 is as I was trying to replicate and test, my eye's learned the difference and I could Identify selections of all/some/none as quickly as ever.

#2 brings me to this, if someone selected all items then showed that screenshot, it's in all honesty a trick question (even if unintentional) as it conveniently omits the difference between selected and non-selected from an onlooker here - of course it would look like a mess because they weren't told how dark unselected is. If that's not what that screenshot is, and I missed something else (entirely possible!) let me know as I couldn't repro to that level unless I selected all:

Some selected:



All selected:




So the fairest conclusion I can think of is I would not blame anyone for wanting more contrast for MIDI item selection, but I don't yet see it as bad as I thought I would find based on reading forum posts. If the guess what is selected screenshot is via select all, it's a bogus example sorry! I think midi item contrast could be worth checking for accessibility rules by cockos... but I can't find a specific WACG rule for something like a MIDI item (there may be a for the velocity text though!)

For me personally, I can work with them as-is, I'm NOT going to get confused - I say that with confidence based on 20 years of "dawing" but I am open to the example I still may have missed as I can skim text like a pro (meaning I skim and miss details).
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